First Time Brewing anything, not just cider

Hey folks, I'm new here and I'm also new to brewing. A buddy that I worked with got me interested in homebrew and this will be my first of many attempts at making my own tasty alcoholic beverages.

I tried my friend’s cider and really liked it so I'm going to start with that (plus it looks easier than beer) I just want to run my plan by everyone and make sure I'm doing everything correctly. Here are the ingredients:


5 Gallons TreeTop Apple Juice
1 lb Light Brown Sugar
1 Can Juicy Juice Apple Juice Concentrate
1 Packet of Dry Ale Yeast


So here's the plan:
Pour three gallons of apple juice into a stock pot
Bring up to about 130 degrees
Add brown sugar and concentrate and stir until dissolved.
Pour all ingredients into primary fermentation bucket, except for yeast
Let cool till 70-80 degrees
Add yeast
Place lid and air lock on bucket
Let ferment for 7-10 days (until the bubbles stop)
Move to secondary fermentation (carboy)
***Not sure how long to leave in there***
Move to bottling bucket and then bottle


The yeast I have is Windsor brewing yeast. Is there a certain way to add the yeast or just dump it in the juice when it cools to 70-80 degrees? Also, there was something I was to make sure the juice didn't have (I haven’t gotten that yet). I know there preservatives, but I'm not sure which ones. I want to say it was sorbates and something else. Anyone have any advice or changes to my plan? Any and all help is greatly appreciated (and probably needed) Thanks, and I look forward to taking part in this site.


peace
-gw

I wouldn't heat the juice. You could set the pectin and end up with a cloudy cider. I would heat up a cup or two of water to help dissolve the brown sugar and concentrate in and then throw that into the juice. I would also boil the brown sugar for a few minutes to sanitize it.

I would re-hydrate yeast. Just dump the yeast into some warm water for a few minutes then pitch it.
I would also add some yeast energizer/nutrient to the batch as well as some pectin enzyme.

Let it sit in the primary for a few weeks. No sense in moving it sooner, since it needs a couple months before drinking. It (probably) won't be done fermenting in 10 days. Secondary it for at least a month. If its not crystal clear, its not ready for bottles.

is there anything i need to do to it while it's fermenting? like shake the bucket or anything?

No, the best thing to do is leave it alone. Keep the airlock filled to the line and cover it up with a towel when it's in the carboy (to protect it from light) and don't shake! You want the yeast and pectin and stuff to settle out so you don't want to mix that all back up in it.

I think you only have to worry about light if hops is involved. IIRC, it's the hops oil that reacts with light. I have all my cider uncovered, and haven't noticed any problems yet.

Well, it's true that hops do "skunk" with light but also white wines and ciders can have issues with light. I don't remember the chemistry right now, but I keep all my wines and beers out of the light. I think david_42 has mentioned some of the reasons why to keep them out of the light, too.

what are the things in apple juice that I don't want to get? I looked at the store today for treetop apple juice, but didn't find any. I looked on ingredients and i think all of them had ascorbic acid... i couldn't remember if my friend told me that was the bad thing or not.

peace
-gw

gerrg said:

Pour all ingredients into primary fermentation bucket, except for yeast
Let cool till 70-80 degrees

Click to expand...

It sounds like a tight plan to me but I would just add this...

• Use a Carboy to Ferment (ie. Glass)
• Don't pasteurize apple juice again, you can heat to mix sugar but don't go overboard.
• Don't worry about screwing up and plan to do more batches.

Here was my first cider / fermenting experiment: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=36792

Goodluck!

gerrg said:

what are the things in apple juice that I don't want to get?

Click to expand...

Basically all you want is APPLE JUICE... certain acids in concentrates are okay, but it's better not to have any since they're used as preservatives and kill yeast.

When looking at juices make sure there are no sorbates or potassium additives. Ascorbic acid is okay. Read the Juicy Juice can carefully. Most frozen concentrates are a better choice and there are several brands aavailable. I have used Tree Top, Motts and have now started using the Makers Mark brand from Sam's Club.

I just dump the sugar in one of the juice bottles and shake until dissolved. This does two things for you, Mixes the sugars and airerates. Don't heat the juice! All fruits have pectin in them, heating may cause the pectins to set or harden. This can make the must hazy or cloudy and it is very difficult to clear afterwards.

Although I don't cover my carboys in the summer direct sunlight can cause bleaching. I would just try to keep the cider or any fermenting must in as dark a room as possible. In the winter when I use the garage for fermenting I do put an old tee shirt over the carboy.

Once you get everything but the yeast mixed well take a gravity reading and then when finished. I usually don't rack from primary to secondary with cider. Just airlock it and let her sit for 6 weeks or sooner if all activity has ceased. Even with the ciders I have going right now it will be 6 weeks and I have not touched them.

Best of luck and let us know how it progresses.

okay, a few quick questions.

1) what exactly is racking?
2) should I use a primary fermentation bucket and then move to a glass carboy? why should or shouldn't I do this?
3)how does airerating help?
4) once I put it in primary fermentation (either glass carboy or plastic bucket) I don't open it at all until it's done right??

I'm probably going to go and buy the juice tonight and start in. won't go shopping for about 9-10 hours so I'm open to suggestions about anything specific I need to get. Thanks!

peace
-gw

1) what exactly is racking?
Transferring the liquid from one container to another. Usually done by siphoning and usually in order to leave less (dormant yeast) behind in the old container.

2) should I use a primary fermentation bucket and then move to a glass carboy? why should or shouldn't I do this?
The great plastic vs glass debate. Use what you have. The general consensus is that bulk aging should be done in glass, but plastic is ok for primary fermentation. You should move it to a glass carboy because the cider will need a month or three to clear. If you let the cider sit on its less for more than about a month the dormant yeast will start to rupture and release all sorts of awful tastes.

3)how does airerating help?
Adding oxygen to an unfermented, cool must is beneficial to yeast growth. You will get quicker and more complete fermentation with a properly aerated must and you may get stuck fermentation on a must with insufficient oxygen for the yeast reproduction cycle.

4) once I put it in primary fermentation (either glass carboy or plastic bucket) I don't open it at all until it's done right??
Each time you open it you risk infection. With proper procedure and sanitation the risk is very minimal. You can open it, but should limit opening it to a minimum.

To add a few notes. I would try to stick with glass unless you get the betterbottle carboys. Most ciders are just left in the one container through the entire fermentation. Then racked in to another carboy for aging. The primary plastic buckets are great for fresh fruit starters as they are a bit bigger and it gives the fruit room to expand, and it does!

The glass will allow you to see how things are going and this will be important the first few times. I say this because you will want to see what is happening. The changes are kind of cool as the milky must starts to clear and the lees fall. The bubbles rising as the sugars are converted. It is harder to know when it is clear and opening the lid just to check.

Opening the lid does run a bit of a risk of letting the baddies in but the real issue with this is you are allowing oxygen on your must. Cider, Mead or Wine will degrade if exposed to O2, it's called oxyidation. Oxyidation ruins the flavor and makes the drink very flat. The flat produces some off flavors and can even turn the wonderful hard cider into cider vinegar. Just get it mixed and stick an airlock on it and don't touch for at least a month to 6 weeks. You will know as it will be clear and depending on you OG you should hit around 7 to 8.5% ABV. I would say you OG will be about 1.06 depending on the juice you find. Then when you think its done take a reading with the Hydrometer and see. Stabilize if you want still cider and backsweeten to taste or add some sugar to carb it, then bottle.

Sounds like you are on the right track

YAY!!! I went a got the juice and concentrate tonight (changed the receipt a bit, used 4 gallons of juice and 4 cans of concentrate as recomended by a friend) got it all together, it's in primary at the moment. probably got the yeast in and the lid on at about 9-9:30 PM and it's 11:00 right now. It's already started to bubble . There's about 1 bubble every 10-15 sec. at the moment. Will keep you all updated, and thanks again for all the info and advice.

peace
-gw

okay, after 12 hours there's about 3 bubbles every 1 sec. It looks like it's really going now.

peace
-gw

Good job, seems you are off to a great start on this one buddy.

Keep the group posted on the progress. :rockin:

okay, so after about 4 days or so the bubbling has really slowed down. the first two days it was bubbling really well (about 3-5 bubbles every sec) but last night i noticed it had droped down to about 1 bubble per sec, and now it's at 1 bubble about every 12 sec. Should i be worried or try to do anything like "stir" the bucket any by kind of shaking it up? didn't know if I should be concerned or not. Thanks!

peace
-gw

Nope, all is well. You are still at around 5-6 bubbles per minute, so that is still pretty active, just not the yeast mulitiplying initial good hard fermentation. It's probably just in the "clean up" stage right now, getting all the last sugars and other byproducts that have been created. Not to worry, wait at least another 5 days before moving it over to the glass.

okay, i'll keep watching it. when I move it to the carboy, about how many bubbles should be coming out right before?1 ever min, or less? Also, can I taste it when I move it to the carboy (not like, drink a couple bottle, but just a table spoon or two). Thanks!

peace
-gw

My last two batches (ale yeast with nutrient) have taken 9-10 days before fermentation is pretty much done. At that point there's still a lot of yeast in suspension. You can taste it but it won't please you much.

If you rack it taste it and take a hydrometer reading. It will not be that tastey and will have a sour taste at this point. It will all age out and turn into a wonder drink!
I do not rack my ciders for 6 weeks but with wine I usually rack between 10 and 14 days. The gravity is usually between 1.03 and 1.

if I forgot to take a hydrometer reading before I put the lid on for primary, can I tell the alcohol content or will I just have to guess?

It is very hard to tell exactly since concentrates vary so much by brand. The apple juices also vary a bit. With the sugar levels I believe you should be around the 9% range or maybe a little higher.

I chose the the walmart brand concentrate because it had a couple more grams of sugar per serving than the others. 9 % would be awesome. It's still slowing down on the bubbling. it's at about 1 bubble every 60-75 sec. Think it's still doing good. I was thinking about moving it into secondary friday. Should I wait longer or not. Thanks!

peace
-gw

I looked at some other batches I did way back and it should be at least 9%. Slow down a bit! Let it sit and do its thing. I do not touch mine until all activity has ceased and it has cleared. It should clear first then you will see the CO2 that is suspended start comming out. It will look like a glass of champagne with tiny bubbles rising. When this has either ceased completely or almost stopped then rack it over for aging. Even though it may appear that the airlock has stopped moving the process is still working. You just started on 9/05, on 10/05 then start considering racking it.

It will not hurt it to rest a month in the primary. I would say that is about the right time to rack over for aging and further clearing. There is a big difference after it has aged 3 months or more. Bitterness goes away and it smooths into a wonderful drink. The stuff I have starting drink on now is very much like the Woodchuck cider flavor but not quite as sweet. My wife said make more last night! This was left for 6 weeks the racked in another carboy for aging. 3 months aging and then racked every 30 days just to help with clearing and getting rid of the lees. If you were to use a D47 yeast it could be left on the lees for the entire time but other need to be racked at about 4 to 6 week periods.

for primary I'm just using my plastic fermentation bucket, and for secondary, I was going to use my glass carboy. Should I still let it sit in the primary for longer? Thanks!

peace
-gw

YES! Don't think about cider as needing a primary and secondary. Think about fermentation and aging. Leave the cider in the first fermenter for at least 30 days. The main reason for primary's and secondary's is the difference in how the yeast reacts. The primary fermentation and container is used to allow O2 to get to the yeast. This allows replication of new yeast cells much faster. The primary is also used for fruit flavor extraction with fresh fruits.

Cider does not need this! It can handle an airlock immediately and the yeast can stil replicate enough to handle 5 gallons and then go into seconary fermentation within the same carboy or container. You can rack it into a glass carboy without an problems at about any time. I am just wanting you to understand that it does not need it. The less you touch it, rack it, or move it around the better it is on the yeast. That is why I say let it finish then rack it, there will be yeast still in suspension after racking and as most experienced brewers can tell you if it is not finished it will start back up at the worst time, so if you want to carb it there won't be an issue.

I believe you will a strong flavor and ABV just let the yeasties work their magic.

okay so a quick update. the cider is looking pretty clear. Doesn't look like it's cleared up much in the past week or two. Once thing I noticed is i can see small bubbles coming up. like maybe 10-15 per second. These are just small bubbles that collect at the top of the liquid. What do these bubbles mean? I wouldn't think there would still be any fermantation going on after this long, and these bubbles seem to be a pretty resent thing. Any ideas? Also, when should I bottle it? I stated fermantation on 9-5-07 and I was thinking about bottling it in about a week and then continue aging from there. Thanks!

peace
-gw

It's just fermenting at a slower rate now. There is nothing wrong with it. If you are too impatient like me, just start a new batch of the same stuff or even better, use a different recipe just in case you don't like the flavor of that one. Right now I have six different Cider recipies going at different stages of Fermentation. Just keep exploring this Cider forum and you will find the answers to most of your Cider questions. For me, the waiting is the hardest part about making Cider.