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Yooper said:
I use to eat wheat (and other grains) but found out about some "antinutrients" (synopsis here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz29h0RLBUj) that are present and did some more reading about them. Industrialized farming, with grains, is feeding a hungry world, but it's only been in the last 10,000 years ago that humans starting eating grains at all, and only in recent history that they started consuming much of them.

I understand what you mean, but I really feel that wheat is basically inedible. We can eat it, and many of us don't suffer too many ill effects, but I think the huge increase in celiac disease, IBS, etc, comes from our emphasis on the food pyramid and adding more wheat and other grains to the diet in the last 40 years. This includes corn- corn is in EVERYTHING in the grocery store, I swear! A little is probably fine, in moderation, but it's become the basis of the US diet. And that explains much of the explosion of obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome (prediabetes), etc.

And don't get me started on "low fat" versions of food! They replace the fat with sugar in many of those "low fat" things. I tried to buy some yogurt the other day- and it was impossible to buy more than ONE carton of yogurt with no added sugar/sucrose/splenda/saccharine.

I really feel that sugar is the enemy, but wheat is right up there too in my opinion.
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Very interesting article, but i'm not sure all of it is true. Insoluble fiber is good because it promotes propulsion (peristalsis) of food through the GI tract. Sure, soluble fiber is better. I imagine humongous amounts would rupture the endothelium, but the lining turns over very fast regardless. We definitely need fiber. Low fiber diets is a major risk factor for colorectal cancer and diverticulosis.
IBS is a multifactorial disease, but I dont know if wheat is a major player.

Definitely going to surf the academic interwebs though because you've piqued my curiosity.
 
Yooper said:
No, I EAT about 20 grams of carbs a day. I drink beer, and don't count carbs with what I drink.

But at 20-25 grams of carbs a day, even without any beer, I don't throw ketones. A urine dip is negative for ketones for me, even at that small amount of carbs.
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You are getting carbs somewhere then as most people can stay in Keto at 75g carbs a day. I sure can. I've pushed 100 and shown ketones on the stick. At 50 or less you are either surely in keto, or getting carbs you dont realize.

But not like it matters much, a lot of people carb cycle and occasionally dip into Keto. You can pop out just as easily, I see no harm in that.

Oh and fiber changed my life. Psyllium husk at least 3 servings a day and not only do I poop like perfection, I'm more regular than the mailman. Mixed with some chia seeds and I would never have to buy TP again if it wasn't for the fiance.
 
TheSlash said:
.

Oh and fiber changed my life. Psyllium husk at least 3 servings a day and not only do I poop like perfection, I'm more regular than the mailman. Mixed with some chia seeds and I would never have to buy TP again if it wasn't for the fiance.
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:off: I just pictured someone pooping out a chia pet.

Thanks for that.:mug:
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
No offense, but nutrition sites like that and vegan sites are a joke. The one medical study he linked too there at the beginning about grains in your intestine walls he just joked off like "LOL, the scientist said thats a good thing, i dont know about you but it sounds horrible! Grains tearing up my intestinal walls!".

Its retarded comments like that which make me discredit anything else he says.

Those pseudo science nutrition sites are full of garbage, if its published in a peer reviewed scientific journal I would give it consideration.

This is the particular part of the article i stopped reading at...


Actually yes, that is all part of the plan, the science says so. His opinion on the process sounding bad, therefore it must be, is the textbook definition of retarded. His entire website is the definition of BroScience, which is so prevalent on fitness and nutrition websites and forums sadly.
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Well, it's a synopsis of a HUGE paper and research and is not complete. That's just the basic premise. There are studies, references and other sources cited. It is a well done and science based belief.
 
TheSlash said:
You are getting carbs somewhere then as most people can stay in Keto at 75g carbs a day. I sure can. I've pushed 100 and shown ketones on the stick. At 50 or less you are either surely in keto, or getting carbs you dont realize.

But not like it matters much, a lot of people carb cycle and occasionally dip into Keto. You can pop out just as easily, I see no harm in that.

Oh and fiber changed my life. Psyllium husk at least 3 servings a day and not only do I poop like perfection, I'm more regular than the mailman. Mixed with some chia seeds and I would never have to buy TP again if it wasn't for the fiance.
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Sorry to disappoint you. I know my body, and after being in the medical field for almost 30 years, I know the science. It could be my size, my hormone level, my thyroid activity, whatever- but I'm sure of the results. When I first went low-carb, I definitely threw ketones. But within about 30 days, my body adjusted and I'm perfectly healthy with no ketosis.

The first 30 days were bad, though. That was about 2.5 years ago, and I will never go back to the way I was. I was healthy, but not sleeping all that well, a bit heavier, had vague aches and pains at times, I felt sluggish in the afternoons, and sometimes had a little gas. I would feel stuffed after eating a typical high-carb meal, but then be hungry before bedtime.

Fiber is important. I won't bore everyone with my habits, but I will say that while I never eat grains or take fiber supplements, I eat lots of vegetables. A LOT. Vegetables provide plenty of fiber.

I don't eat seeds or anything like that, and I eat few nuts. I just don't like them, so it's not like I'm "against" them.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Your basically doing Keto dieting, personally i cant stand Keto..i tried it and once i went low carbs for a week and entered Ketosis (which takes several days to weeks on low <50g carbs) i had horrible mood swings, and horrible headaches. ...It also makes your breath stink due to the high acetone levels lol...
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Dude, you gotta give it more than a week. All those symptoms go away within 2-3 weeks for most people as your body adjusts.
 
TyTanium said:
Dude, you gotta give it more than a week. All those symptoms go away within 2-3 weeks for most people as your body adjusts.
Click to expand...

Im a programmer, i cant go a month at work not being able to think clearly because of pounding headaches, nor do i feel like downing tons of drugs to counteract it :) Especially when IIFYM and Intermittent Fasting works perfectly fine for me. Not to mention i got tired of eating so much meat and cheese. Give me a big bowl of pasta and a glass of milk any day...
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Im a programmer, i cant go a month at work not being able to think clearly because of pounding headaches, nor do i feel like downing tons of drugs to counteract it :) Especially when IIFYM and Intermittent Fasting works perfectly fine for me. Not to mention i got tired of eating so much meat and cheese. Give me a big bowl of pasta and a glass of milk any day...
Click to expand...

Yeah, you just need to up your carb & salt intake a little and they go away within minutes, but I hear ya. Glad what you're doing is working.
 
Yooper said:
Well, it's a synopsis of a HUGE paper and research and is not complete. That's just the basic premise. There are studies, references and other sources cited. It is a well done and science based belief.
Click to expand...

Science far and away supports a diet consisting of lots of fruits and vegetables as well as daily exercise. There is very little you can eat in the way of raw/unprocessed foods that is actually bad for you. As long as energy in &#8776; energy out you're in pretty good shape.

I can make up a scientific argument as to why oranges are the worst food you can eat but it doesn't mean you should just believe me. Some people are intolerant of some foods, those people should not eat those foods.
 
KeyWestBrewing said:
This is like sitting ring side watching heavyweights going punch for punch for 12 rounds. Very entertaining!!!
Click to expand...

Makes me think of this great comic.

Disclaimer: The poster is not making references to any one in this thread. No offense is intended. I've actually learned trememdous amounts about several styles of weight management and nutrition in the past several days from everyone here. :mug:

2012-10-19 08.14.54.jpg
 
Yeah, I've really enjoyed and learned a lot from this thread. Thanks all for the good info and level-headedness. :high-fives:
 
Highly recommend the documentary "Forks over Knives."
Quite scientific and informative, though can be dry and overwhelming to the uninitiated.

Yooper, sorry to bring this up again, but I don't believe wheat is so much to blame in the big picture. Which is not to say they have no part in the blame! I have done quite a bit of research the past few days on this topic and wanted to share what I have been reading if anyone finds it of value.

I think the prevalence of processed corn in our diet, directly or otherwise, is a factor that is a bigger problem than grain, simply because we consume more of its refined product. It's not the sole problem for sure, but its in just about everything we eat. High fructose corn syrup, devoid of nutrients except empty calories, corn in chips, corn-fed beef (which makes the meat itself have much higher saturated fat content and serious health problems for the cow -- http://www.livestrong.com/article/529194-nutrition-of-grass-fed-beef-vs-corn-fed-beef/) which also makes our milk, corn fed chicken and everything really. Its unhealthy for cows and increases the amount of fat in the meat over traditionally grass-fed cows. Just look in the pantry and see what has processed corn in it!
http://articles.cnn.com/2007-09-22/...refiners-association-soybean-oil?_s=PM:HEALTH
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/story?id=4439943&page=1#.UISasYabHRs

Now kids can get soda, chips, and candy in schools and often prefer these to school lunches, which are usually not healthy either and largely are corn based. It is cheaper to feed kids high-density corn-based products because they are subsidized, while healthy foods like fresh fruits and vegetables are not.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/3/437

Interestingly, the current generation of kids might actually expected to live less than the previous generation for the first time in american history due to the effects of American diet.
http://www.georgiahealthnews.com/2012/05/largely-preventable-health-conditions-hamper-u-s/

Most food in America is corn. Almost everything in grocery stores has processed corn, and has an extremely high calorie density. Most important is calorie density because you can eat much less of it to get the same caloric value of, say, broccoli. Which means your stomach doesn't perceive being full nearly as fast. Stomach stretch receptors are a key pathway in signaling your brainstem that you are full and should stop eating.
http://freshfru.it/post/27596382690/when-our-stomachs-are-full-with-fruits-and-plant
Consumption of calorie-dense foods also means the pancreas secretes insulin in "peaky" intervals, then disappears quickly. Or it stays high altogether, along with glucose levels. This has been strongly implicated to cause insulin resistance, a key part of metabolic syndrome and later type II diabetes.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/glycemic-index-diet/MY00770
http://www.longactinginsulin.com/index.php/tag/insulin-spike/
http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/glycaemic-index-of-rice-varieties
http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/1877-glycemic-control-best-for-weight-loss (see section about glucose and insulin spikes)
Needless to say, consuming more empty calories in calorie density foods means more fat storage.
Heck, the corn grown in the grain belt is completely unpalatable unless highly processed! It's sometimes not even profitable to grow corn without government subsidies. I understand this goes back to food policy back in the 1970s (and of course before) where the government fiscally encouraged the amount of food yield based on subsidies. This allows companies to make corn-based products, which are nutritionally deficient and calorie dense, on the cheap relative to healthy foods.
http://www.calpirgstudents.org/medi...port-junk-food-instead-fresh-food-report-says
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/09/ag-subsidies-fund-junk-food-report-says/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Butz#Secretary_of_Agriculture

My opinion is that the serious problems in health we are seeing (higher cancer rates, morbid obesity, diabetes type II, HTN, etc etc..) are from the unrestrained consumption of high calorie density foods - the consumption of which causes "peaky" insulin spikes, or simply persistently high levels of glucose which insulin everntually fails to manage, and does not stimulate the brain telling it that it is full - and the lack of physical activity. Americans like things fast, cheap, and easy. It's all of these to stop at McDonald's and grab an extra large #1 with a coke than it is to prepare a meal of vegetables, fruits, and legumes. Speaking of which, the meal is almost all highly processed corn and meat. The beef is corn fed, the milk comes from corn-fed cows, the soda contains largely high-fructose corn syrup, and the fries are fried in highly processed corn oil (or rapeseed or soy).
http://www.ecoliteracy.org/essays/we-are-what-we-eat
http://www.lifechek.com/webimages/obesity_cancer.gif
http://www.cutthewaist.com/impact.html

In addition, the consumption of these highly energy dense foods also increases the amount of inflammation in the body, measured commonly as CRP (C- Reactive Protein), amongst other things. It has been proven that diets high in saturated fats and energy dense foods causes a dramatic increase in CRP levels.
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/5/1211.full
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=46339
These inflammatory processes are how atherosclerosis forms, measured by CRP. Specifically, LDL cholesterol is not easily removed from the blood by the liver. This means it spends high amounts of time in the blood, and it has a higher chance of becoming oxidized, which is a very harmful process. Oxidants damage vessel endothelia, and cause migration of inflammatory cells to the area by signal molecules (cytokines) released by the endothelium. These proliferate over the indigestible oxidized LDLs eaten up by macrophages, which become foam cells, and attract platelets to form over them. This mass then narrows the artery. If the fibrous platelet cap is thin, the plaque is easy to break apart and may cause strokes. If thick, it can cause things like angina (chest pain) during exercise and pain in the lower legs when walking.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11795267
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/91/9/2488.full
http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/545748 (esp. third slide picture)
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/www-learn/labmeeting/labmeeting_014.pdf
http://www.angiologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/eng_atherosclerosis.jpg

TLDR; Consumption of energy-dense foods and lack of exercise are the problems here. They cause countless morbid, fatal, and extremely expensive diseases. Since corn is so prevalent in everything, is extremely cheap due to subsidies, and must be processed into calorie-dense forms it is the main culprit. We can debate the percentages of fats/carbs/proteins, but I think the basic message is eat more unprocessed foods like fruits and vegetables, and exercise.


I'm sure there are some errors here and that I left a good deal out, like the exercise (or lack thereof) side of the equation. This was just in my free time between studying for a shelf exam and writing some H&Ps.
My apologies if it is received as rambling, excessive, or confusing.
I only hope my area of study and work can help other people better understand these processes. If everyone already knows this, my apologies again :)
:mug:

Edit 1: Changed "grains" to "wheat"
 
I didn't mean for this to turn into a general health thread, but since it did...

I don't eat any meat, never have since the day I was born. I also shy away from the dairy and eggs. I love carbs and beer, though usually my lunches are a carb / protein mix, like rice and black beans, or rice and lentils, etc. I avoid refined sugars, like cake, and absolutely no soft drinks. I avoid foods with high fructose corn syrup, etc. Most of my carbs are complex carbs.

As a result, my cholesterol is awesome: LDL is 40, HDL is 66. (It's almost impossible for vegans to have a cholesterol problem since 99.9% of cholesterol intake comes from animal products.) My blood sugar is not too high. Actually it might be too low, if anything, so a low carb high protein diet would probably be very bad for me. I rarely get sick, and I have good energy. I am on the high end of a healthy weight, but not overweight yet (as measured by risk for hyperbolic syndrome). Though I am also a couch potato, so maybe that's why I'm on the high end.

It is much the opposite of Yooper and some other posts, but it works for me.
 
theexternvoid said:
(It's almost impossible for vegans to have a cholesterol problem since 99.9% of cholesterol intake comes from animal products.)
Click to expand...

I swore I would stay away from this thread but this is just wrong. Your liver produces way more cholesterol than you could eat if you tried. It does this using any carbon source, carbs included. Even in a high cholesterol intake diet, your liver is still synthesizing 75% or so of your cholesterol. Many people have successfully fixed their cholesterol levels my eating largely high cholesterol foods like egg yolks and by cutting out grains which can be readily made into cholesterol and triglycerides (myself included).
 
sonofgrok said:
I swore I would stay away from this thread but this is just wrong. Your liver produces way more cholesterol than you could eat if you tried. It does this using any carbon source, carbs included. Even in a high cholesterol intake diet, your liver is still synthesizing 75% or so of your cholesterol. Many people have successfully fixed their cholesterol levels my eating largely high cholesterol foods like egg yolks and by cutting out grains which can be readily made into cholesterol and triglycerides (myself included).
Click to expand...

Very true sir. I have also seen some compelling evidence that increasing phytosterol intake helps lower cholesterol also.
 
kombat said:
Objection, Your Honor. Correlation does not imply causation.
Click to expand...
Correct. But that is not why I said this. The reason I said avoiding animal products caused my awesome cholesterol is because plant-based food has no cholesterol. A vegan consumes 0g of cholesterol. A vegetarian like me who avoids dairy and eggs most of the time consumes close to that.

Your body produces enough cholesterol on its own to stay healthy with no need of additional supplimental cholesterol from food. That's why animal products have it: animal bodiess (including ours) naturally produce cholesterol. Plants do not.
 
I work out 4-5 days a week but once your over 40, things just don't make sense. I don't drink that much but with beers at 250 calories or more, I do have to be careful.
As you age, men get 'more gut and less butt' and I'm working on that no happening. I sometimes tell myself I am going 30 days on a beer break but cant' do it. I think beer day and night.
 
I'm taking out my beer durnig the week (again) as Im focused to lose more weight before my brothers wedding in February. I dont have to lose much, but the less beer calories, the less total cals into being less than my BMR. If you burn X calories in a day (X), and you take in less calories than that, then over a period of time, you will lose weight/ fat. MAke weight training part of your exercise routine to build some muscle and you'll look better than if you didn't. Dont even bring up "I don't want to get 'bulky'". It takes years and years of consistant weight training to build a lot of muscle. If I do happen to drink a few beers during the week, then I'll work my diet around it, and/ or do some extra cardio.
 
Ok I gotta come back. A beer a day is good for you, and enjoyable. Vegan may be good for you if done right, but man that would take so much pleasure out of life. I'm all about moderation and enjoying yourself. I don't really want to live 100% healthy just to die in a car wreck at 60. I also don't care if eating healthy 100% of the time lets me like a few years longer because without beer and good food what kind of living is that.

The first thing anyone should do when considering a diet, trying to lose weight, whatever, is COUNT YOUR CALORIES. It is amazing to me that maybe 1/2 a percent of the population does this with ANY accuracy. If you don't have a detailed record you're lost. Anything else is just a guessing game that 99.5% of you lose.
 
I agree with Slash, "All things in moderation" is the key when it comes to consumption of anything.

For years now we have been inundated with large quantities of calories in small packages, but because we don't get that "full feeling" from a 3 bite 2000 calorie sandwich they make a larger sandwich that fills your gut and severly overloads your caloric intake...then we climb into cars to drive the 3miles to work where we sit and stare at a computer screen followed by going home, making dinner and watching TV or some other mundane process that burns no calories.

Intake > Output = weight gain
Intake< Output = weight loss

It really is that simple. Walk or ride your bicycle as many places as you can and get active on the weekends, you will see a difference.

I have lost 55lbs and counting over the last year by keeping this simple equation in mind.
 
I follow the live hard play hard. I make lifting a priority over everything but work and family. So I hit the gym 5 days a week. 3 days of lifting, 2 days of basketball. So when I get home, that beer sounds great, and sometimes a second one! If I want pizza Friday night, I'll make sure to hit some extra weights or play an extra hour of basketball first. That way I have a six pack in the fridge and one under the shirt at all times.

If you make a life change that prioritizes fitness, everything else kinda falls into place. You'll feel better so you keep it up, you look better so the emotional eating lessens.

If anyone wants some extra reading on things that can drastically change your life, I recommend;

leangains.com and yourbrainonporn.com -watch all the vids.

I really didn't achieve crap in my life until following both of those sites and learning about how dopamine controls EVERYTHING we do in life. Without it we DIE, with too much we don't LIVE.
 
kombat said:
Just because something is simple doesn't mean it's easy.

See, for example, chess.
Click to expand...

Anything worth having is rarely easy to achieve.

Most have their brains wired in such a way that if the results aren't instant and obvious then it isn't doing any good, this is the mindset that needs to change.
 
I didn't read the whole thread but I'll tell you about my personal experience. A while back I read an article about how there's a collection of urbanites who go jogging daily, not because they're health freaks, but because they want to drink a few pints of beer at the pub every night, but wanted to remain thin.

When I started home brewing, I decided to try jogging in the morning for 15 minutes to counteract the effect of the beer I was drinking each night. I have one 500Ml beer (1 pint) each evening. Anyways, I'm lazy, could never get more that 3 minutes of running, and walked the last 3-4 minutes home. So, all in all, 7 minutes of arguable effort. Started with not being able to run more than 150 feet, and got it up to half a kilometer over time, which isn't much. And then walked another half kilo home.

It worked. If you start each day but running or riding a bike for 5 minutes, you're metabolize will reve up early and you'll burn more calories all day. Plus if feels absolutely great. Not the running part, that feels like death. I hate running. But once you have a shower and your first coffee, you have loads of energy. Lasts until about 5PM. And you sleep solid.

So you want to lose weight and drink lots of beer? Run for 3 minutes every morning. I lost about 20 Lbs while drinking beer, and not changing my diet, though my diet is pretty healthy.
 
I bike to work as long as its not raining too much. Comes out to about 8.5 miles round-trip, then about 15-20 minutes of weights in the morning. Keeps me in reasonable shape, though I'd like to be about 5-10lbs lighter; but I havent really changed my diet so far. I like beer and candy too much to sacrifice :drunk:
 
Yep, I've picked up running again, not coincidentally as I've started drinking 1 beer/day on avg. My weight is down to my college level (I'm 46 and slim). After Googling about the health benefits of 1 beer/day I am actually better off now than before I started brewing! I definitely feel more relaxed/less stressed.
 
abandonhope16 said:
I bike to work as long as its not raining too much. Comes out to about 8.5 miles round-trip, then about 15-20 minutes of weights in the morning. Keeps me in reasonable shape, though I'd like to be about 5-10lbs lighter; but I havent really changed my diet so far. I like beer and candy too much to sacrifice :drunk:
Click to expand...

I bike a mile to work every day year round as well and in the summer I ride about 90+ miles a week. Last year I dropped 55lbs over the summer doing this with no significant change in diet:D

I too have a dangerous sweet tooth:eek:
 

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