Utopia Clone #3 Perfecting Nirvanha

I'm starting to think we're doing it wrong Saturday......

Maybe I should build a new mash tun? Plywood you say? I don't know, you guys all claim that the U's you make are good. Maybe trying something untested every year is the key. We have a new recipe at least.

I'm gonna ask this question and Erik you shut the feck up: What is more important to making this beer? The brewday going good or the fermentation? If your answer involves a store that only has parking "in the rear" then don't bother responding. Don't get me wrong you all seem perfectly centered.

Is there going to be a brewcast of this event? I could see this going Pay-Per-View.

Its not a purely a matter of the brew day "going good". It is a matter of being able to hit your mash temps. And trying to mash 115 lbs of grain, in a garage in New England, in February is going to require some sort of reliable way of controlling temp. In order to control temp, he's going to have to cirulate the hell out of that mash tun and when he tries chugging tht volume through the heat exchanger, its going to stick rock solid. If it sticks rock solid, every minute it isnt circulating, he's losing temp and falling further away from his mash temp. Yeah, fermentation is extremely important but it means absolutely nothing if the wort is screwed up going into the fermenter.

Here's an idea. Why don't you go all Davy Crockett and do the heating from an open fire that's burning old construction wood!

Cape Brewing said:

Its not a purely a matter of the brew day "going good". It is a matter of being able to hit your mash temps. And trying to mash 115 lbs of grain, in a garage in New England, in February is going to require some sort of reliable way of controlling temp. In order to control temp, he's going to have to cirulate the hell out of that mash tun and when he tries chugging tht volume through the heat exchanger, its going to stick rock solid. If it sticks rock solid, every minute it isnt circulating, he's losing temp and falling further away from his mash temp. Yeah, fermentation is extremely important but it means absolutely nothing if the wort is screwed up going into the fermenter.

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Well our problems last year revolved around not having enough tun space and then the fermentation. Ours stalled in the 1.050 range and then we had to try the re-pitch wine yeast/beano route. At the end we only got down to 1.035. For a beer this big I consider it a win and it's definately special and drinkable.

This year we have plenty of MLT space and we're going the five gallon cake route so I see a much better "initial" fermentation before we have to resort to other methods. Two appropriately filled MLTs should hold temp fine for 90 minutes and there's no reason to think we won't have full conversion by then. I can definately see your concern with that grain bill (ours is 57lbs.) and untested equipment. I see four people surrounding that thing with drills and mortar mixers. But then again it may go off without a hitch. The success of this brew in my mind is all about the brewday and making it happen no matter what comes up.

Ya see, I know something that none of you guys know.

'Cape Brewing' is the Nom de Plum for a 78 year old woman from South Jersey named Miss Lillian. Ya, she comes on here and acts like she's some 35 year old dude, riding Harleys and chewing stogies but the reality of the matter is far different. Afternoon tea and Lorna Doones are more her style. While her alter ego, CB is all full of bluff and boisterous good times, Miss Lillian far prefers to sit at home and knit. That and talk smack about stuff she knows nothing about on the internet.

She's probably right, this won't work at all. But I have a pair dangling a bit below my belt and I'm not afraid to try something outside the envelope. That's what this beer is. That's what this brew day is. A beer for men. A brew day for men. (Lets just leave Yeager out of the equation for a minute here please, I'm on a roll.)

Hey Miss Lillian, same me a few of those Lorna Doones, would ya? I f'ing LOVE those things.

PTN

For U1 and U2.... did you just use 099?

What are you doing for an insulated lid on that tun?

Cape Brewing said:

What are you doing for an insulated lid on that tun?

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Maybe they'll just give you a wedgie and throw you on top so that your stomach forms a tight seal. They'll probably give you a beer every 15 minutes for your trouble.

I love your guys bickering! Hey PTN and Yeager, is anybody invited to the U3? I got to taste a little U2 at Masstoberfest but would love to see it being made and give a hand if need be.

jgourd said:

Maybe they'll just give you a wedgie and throw you on top so that your stomach forms a tight seal. They'll probably give you a beer every 15 minutes for your trouble.

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You got the wrong guy... Paul's the chubby one. You would need two of me.

Cape Brewing said:

You would need two of me.

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That's about 1 7/8 more than anyone would ever want. Just saying!


BTW, I talked to our boy today and he says that SWMBO will be away that day. That means a couple of things...

1. I hosey the guest bedroom so that I can seriously overindulge and then antagonize His Nibs late into the night. Having me as an overnight guest has to be one of Yeagers worst nightmares. One of my fondest memories ever was the look on PTO's face when I came back to the garage after using an upstairs bathroom and telling Chris that I looked everywhere but couldn't find a plunger and the toilet shutoff valve wasn't working. Chris took off up the stairs like a Tazmanian Devil and I thought PTO was going to throw up he was laughing so hard.

2. The Stein beer is a go. She agreed to a fire so long as no grass gets charred. (The diveway doesn't have grass on it, right?)

3. Hippie and Smurf get to go on a wine cellar Scavenger Hunt. I'll tell them what to look for.

4. Are we having a street hockey game this year?

5. Better still, anyone got any paintball guns? Preferably ones with extra large capacity. A long time ago I used to be a part of the parking lot scene at Dead concerts, selling tie dyed tee shirts to pay for beer, tickets and medicinal vegitation. I bet it would be a sheet load of fun trying to recreate some of those tee shirts using the front of Yeagers house and a paintball AK47.


PTN

What's this about a steinbeer? Is that how you're going to keep mash temps up?

Where is Hippie? Is he still down south? Haven't heard from him in a while.

Street hockey, yes. We need an actual game this year, though. Let someone (other than me!) watch the pots for boilover and have at it.

As to the first point... perhaps we all ought to chip in and get one of them porta-potties?

the_bird said:

What's this about a steinbeer? Is that how you're going to keep mash temps up?

As to the first point... perhaps we all ought to chip in and get one of them porta-potties?

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The Stein Beer is a different brew altogether:



I'm hoping to talk Smurfjuice into doing this.

Porta-Potties and a new paint job for the house if the paint ball event goes through. Then again, just leave it alone and see how pissed Mrs. Yeager can get.

Dude, that would be epic. Is that an HBT'er in the video? I've also seen videos where people make blast furnaces like with a leaf blower to REALLY get the stones hot.

paulthenurse said:

Like happens at big / real breweries? Seems to me that Sam, et all, use far more grain in their mast tuns than wevwill be using and they don't get their panties in a wad worrying about stuck mashes. We can add some rice hull, enen lay down an inch or so as a layer on the bottom. I'm not worried about it at all. ( Ok, maybe a teeny bit!)

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Two keys to the technique for big beers, according to the real pro's I have talked to on this very topic. First, do a mashout. With such a thick mash, nothing is going to get moving without getting the liquid in that bugger as hot as you possibly can before sparging it. Second, use a grant. The trick is to get as little of a drop as possible from the bottom of the lauter tun to the liquid level in the grant, yet still maintain a decent rate of run-off. If you let the liquid drop too far, or try to use a pump, you will generate suction under the false bottom or in the manifold which will set the mash. I'm not sure if raking the top 1/3 of the mash is necessary, but it can be done carefully with a mash paddle, I did this on my DFH 120 sparge FWIW.

the_bird said:

Dude, that would be epic. Is that an HBT'er in the video? I've also seen videos where people make blast furnaces like with a leaf blower to REALLY get the stones hot.

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Not sure if he's an HBT'er - I think the video is from Northern Brewer's forum.

Here's the video that Bobby_M put up when his club did it.

the_bird said:

Dude, that would be epic. Is that an HBT'er in the video? I've also seen videos where people make blast furnaces like with a leaf blower to REALLY get the stones hot.

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How about pouring on a little LOX? Nothing says 'Incendiary Bomb' quite like liquid oxygen. :rockin::rockin::rockin:

PTN

Saccharomyces said:

Two keys to the technique for big beers, according to the real pro's I have talked to on this very topic. First, do a mashout. With such a thick mash, nothing is going to get moving without getting the liquid in that bugger as hot as you possibly can before sparging it. Second, use a grant. The trick is to get as little of a drop as possible from the bottom of the lauter tun to the liquid level in the grant, yet still maintain a decent rate of run-off. If you let the liquid drop too far, or try to use a pump, you will generate suction under the false bottom or in the manifold which will set the mash. I'm not sure if raking the top 1/3 of the mash is necessary, but it can be done carefully with a mash paddle, I did this on my DFH 120 sparge FWIW.

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I'm investigating the possibilities of having Jaybird make me a huge 15 inch radius false bottom. If I can do some creative accounting so SWMBO doesn't go ballistic I will. But I'm going on vacation just before we do the brew so disposable income is tight. We'll see. The false bottoms he makes are first class, but at that size they are pricey.


PTN

PaulTheOriginal said:

I'm hoping to talk Smurfjuice into doing this.

.

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Talk Schmalk. You and our little blue friend are doing it. End of discussion.

PTN

paulthenurse said:

Talk Schmalk. You and our little blue friend are doing it. End of discussion.

PTN

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Gotta dig him out of the snow first.

Good luck finding his little hollow tree. It's buried under a drift.

PTN

Time to start talking about food for the U3 brew day. I've been jonesing for some pickled eggs and sausages for a while so I'm planning on making a big batch of that. That will definatley go into the "Snackage" catagory. I think I'll also make a Fatty and some ABT's. I don't want to get tied up cooking, we all know how the bitter I brewed at Masstoberfest faired. (Actually, it's not bad at all. It was just the brewing of it while doing 500 other things that was the issue.

What else? Cape, you ought to bring your Pigcowrhinoserousemuduckbilledplatapus idea.

PTN

no

paulthenurse said:

Time to start talking about food for the U3 brew day. I've been jonesing for some pickled eggs and sausages for a while so I'm planning on making a big batch of that.

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How 'bout some smoked scotch eggs.

Ok so, I'm back for a few days.... I think it is time to join this thread. Couple things

1. There was a question of who could come. Almost anyone on this site is welcome. Just let me know if you are coming so I have some head count. If you come you must bring beer!

2. If we do get stuck sparges we have a bunch of mash tuns we can transfer too. Mine is 72 quarts and holds over forty pounds of grain.

3. If we can't keep the heat up in Paul's bastardized partially aborted mash tun, we have other mash tuns we can heat indirectly . No big deal. I am just looking forward to watching Paul get pissy with me when I say 1116 is not the same as 1160 again. That was fun........

4. Swmbo will not be around but I will be castrated (even further if that is possible) if I let PTN stay over.... The overflowed toilet was enough for a life time in swmbos mind..

5. Food.... I plan on having my smoker going reheating a brisket, smoking some pork butts and possily a turkey. No I am not stuffing one into the other like cb......

6. I am making the starter in about 2 weeks and then the actual full 5 gallon starter a week later. Debating this recipe.

7. Cb: we added ec1118 after about a month

8: we are splitting the batch the night of the brew to avoid the bull of last year of PTN bugging me every 2 minutes for a reading or tasting notes, and me refusing cause i was frickin busy with two kids, getting my MBA, a wife and a 60 hour a week job, and a part time gig.

"Wa Wa Wa Wa

And I had to take out the trash
And I had to tie my own shoes
And I had to walk the dog
And I wiped poopies off my bum bum occasionally, no more than once a week or so, unless I took my Miralax
And I had to pick up the phone an listen to that big meanie PTN yell at me.

It's not easy being me.

Yeager1977"



Good Grief.

PTN

OK, its confirmed. Yeager's SWMBO will be out of town. We have a green light on a Stein Beer. There will be a big arsed bonfire in the back of Yeagers yard and Yeager's SWMBO won't be around to knock down the fire with her icy stare. PTO and SmurfJuice will be doing the honors. Their recipe is on the TWB forum.

I am trying to put together a screen for a false bottom for the mash tun so we can do a single gigantic mash. Jaybird has offered to fabricate one for me but I don't know if I want to spend that much cash as SWMBO and I have several trips planned to Fl, Iceland and Belgium between now and May and there is only so much disposable income to go around. I THOUGHT I had a cheap solution, there is a manufacturer of perforated plating down in Providence. I went down there today and talked to them and they are only a manufacturing plant. They were perfectly willing to set up and run a $10K order for me but since I only need a single circle with a 15 inch radius I opted to pass. I'm still searching, if it gets down to it and I can't do a false bottom I'll make up a manifold out of 3/4 inch copper pipe.

In any case, this brew day is a definite go. Be there or wish you were.

PTN

I'd contact a local small machine shop. I've had luck with a couple places a few years back when I needed parts fabricated for a car I was building that are now obsolete.

What specifically are you looking for? Maybe I can talk to my brother. He supervises a shop in Middleboro.

A piece of perforated metal, either stainless or aluminum. It needs a 14 3/4" radius, a 29 1/2 inch diameter to sit at teh bottom of the mash tun. If I can find the material I can do what needs to be done at Drunkens garage. I wish I had the spare $250 so I could buy one from Jaybird but I don't want to spend that money right now. So if anyone knows where I can pick up some perforated metal let me know. It wants to have 3/32 inch holes at 5/32 inch centers.

PTN

Paul, check the local scrap yards. One of my brew buddies is always picking up small sheets of perforated stainless at one here. We have aircraft manufacturers in town so that is probably where it's coming from, so YMMV.

Depending on what you find, this stuff is a b!tch to cut to size. Tin shears wouldn't put a dent in it. We ended up using a set of pneumatic nibblers to cut it and I'm pretty sure they will never be the same again.

I hope you do find some. This tun is so bastardized, what would be better than a scrap yard false bottom.

Terje

I don't have the faintest idea of where to find a scrap yard but that's a good idea and I'll look into it.

(sniff) Bastardized? What is he talking about?

PTN

Hey Paul, I talked to my brother. He said he should be able to take care of it at one of his shops. I told him to find out how much it would cost for SS and aluminum and he'll get back to me next week. When do you need it by?

Well, I suddenly have a bunch of time on my hands after breaking my foot the day before yesterday so whenever he can do it that will be great. I can get it out to Worcester so Drunken can apply the finishing touches.

PTN

Drop your brew rig on it?

yeager1977 said:

Drop your brew rig on it?

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I'll let Paul tell you how it happened. It's priceless I tell you.

Better than walking in the willows with pandas?

He claims he was cold stone sober. How about that?

Why is that so hard to believe?



Ya, well OK. There is THAT.

PTN

Fact of the matter is... he had a few beers, decided he needed cupcakes, took a step and between his incredible girth and how brittle his bones are given his age, that one step was too much to handle and a bone turned to dust.

I can't possibly imagine this was a shock to anyone since we've all been talking about Paul's need for a Hoveround for years.

Personally... I think a Hoveround witha trailer hitch would be ideal. He can motor around the house a lot easier and when it is time to stick a mash or sparge, he can hook up his rig to the back and drag it out.