Secondary Fermenter - what to buy?

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Shambolic

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I've become convinced that getting myself a secondary fermenter is a must. I have two options, and I was wondering what people thought:

- A plastic fermenter (identical to my primary). Thirty litres, and I can bottle from a tap at the bottom (as I now do from my primary).

- A glass carboy. This was recommended by my stockist, but costs a lot more, and I will have to bottle via a siphon - much less convenient.

Would there be any problems with using a plastic secondary? I don't intend to leave a brew in there for any longer than about two weeks anyway...
 
Shambolic said:
I've become convinced that getting myself a secondary fermenter is a must. I have two options, and I was wondering what people thought:

- A plastic fermenter (identical to my primary). Thirty litres, and I can bottle from a tap at the bottom (as I now do from my primary).

- A glass carboy. This was recommended by my stockist, but costs a lot more, and I will have to bottle via a siphon - much less convenient.

Would there be any problems with using a plastic secondary? I don't intend to leave a brew in there for any longer than about two weeks anyway...
Click to expand...


In my opinion, you'd be better off with the glass carboy. The advantage is that you can see the beer as it clears in it's final stages. You can still rack from that back into your plastic bottling bucket when it comes time to bottle.
 
Shambolic said:
- A glass carboy. This was recommended by my stockist, but costs a lot more, and I will have to bottle via a siphon - much less convenient.
Click to expand...
Glass is best, and an autosyphon will help with the convenience aspect. :cool:
 
not to mention a bottling attachment for the siphon hose. those are indespensible for bottling and you don't have to worry about pinching the hose or restarting your siphon.
 
I also recommend the glass carboy. Other then being able to observe the beer through the glass, you are trying to minimize the beer's contact with oxygen. A filled carboy will have less surface area exposed then if you used another bucket like the one you use for primary.
 
My main concern is that you need to replace plastic buckets regularly because of the plastic getting scratches, absorbing odors of previous batches etc... With glass you are able to clean and sanitize without fear of scratching, or keeping residual odors, flavors or bacteria. No off tastes or odors.

So for the cost of buying a glass carboy to buying plastic buckets and replacing them regularly, the over all cost of plastic is actually higher.

Plus with the carboys, you can get various sizes to fit your needs, 3 gallon, 5 gallon, 6 gallon and 6.5 gallon. And like it has been said, you are able to see the progress of your secondary batch.

Sidenote: I myself am thinking of going to glass for my primary's. 6.5 gallon for primary, and 5 gallon (currently using) for secondary's.
 
I know I'm not an expert, but I've always fermented everything in glass. When I got into homebrewing, I got into it with a friend that had been brewing for a few years already. So since I wasn't buying a "Mr. Beer" kit (not knocking them though!) I didn't bother buying plastic buckets. I like knowing that I don't have to worry too much about sanitization issues when just letting some iodophor sit in there, and I always like to see what's going on with the beer. Twenty bucks for a carboy when you use it a zillion times isn't too much of a hefty investment in my eyes for the peace of mind and for the cool visual!
 
go with glass. all above have made "pro's" for the glass vs. primary. spend a little more $$ now, and your beer will thank you!

i'd move to a 6.5 gallon glass carboy for primary too. just my $0.02 worth!

good luck!
 
Tony said:
My main concern is that you need to replace plastic buckets regularly because of the plastic getting scratches, absorbing odors of previous batches etc... With glass you are able to clean and sanitize without fear of scratching, or keeping residual odors, flavors or bacteria. No off tastes or odors.

So for the cost of buying a glass carboy to buying plastic buckets and replacing them regularly, the over all cost of plastic is actually higher.QUOTE]

I disagree with your argument :D in that I have a bunch of plastic primaries that are only slightly stained or have faint odors that are over 10 years old and get used weekly, semi-weekly at the most.

What are you cleaning with, a wire brush? I let mine soak overnight with bleach water inside. Most of the time there's nothing left to scrub come morning. And any scrubbing I end up doing is light and with a sponge. I don't use anything else inside my buckets. Sponges only. Just like cleaning off a counter top.

The key is to let them soak. You've had boiled water and sugar in them, OK and some hop oils, but not much more. Any overnight soak is going to dissolve the sugar for you, especially if you start with hot water.

Most odors are gone after you properly clean them. I let mine air dry while laying them down on their sides.

As far as different sizes, I usually mark the sides of my buckets in 1/2 and 1 gal increments, so I don't need different size containers. If I want to fill it to the 3 gal mark I can, at 4, I can.

Oh, and they usually don't break and can stack better than carboys.
Click to expand...
 
homebrewer_99 said:
I disagree with your argument :D in that I have a bunch of plastic primaries that are only slightly stained or have faint odors that are over 10 years old and get used weekly, semi-weekly at the most.

What are you cleaning with, a wire brush?
Click to expand...

Everyone has their opinion and you are welcome to yours. As far as the cleaning comment, no I dont use a wire brush. I was refering to if it gets scratched in any way, and with many people, scratches are possible from a great many pieces of equipment.

To each his own.
 
The wire brush comment was not meant to be serious. You didn't think that I thought are were so stupid? Of course not!

Anyway, I only use plastic against plastic.

I think most prople scratch their buckets when they scour the yeast and hop residue (if they would do an overnight soak this would eliminate any scouring) or stir with metal spoons.

Even stirring inside your brew pot with a metal spoon is going to scratch the pot...of which, I use a plastic stirrer.
 
Dang, I guess I just screwed up using a whisk to aerate the wort in my bucket. :( And I had a plastic whisk sitting right there that I didn't use...doh.
 
:D No offense taken! I kinda thought you were joking anyway.

Idealy soaking in bleach overnight is great and indeed the best way to clean thoroughly, as I use it to clean aquarium equipment the same way. Of course you just need make sure to get it all off with a good rinsing.

As for cleaning my buckets, nothing touches them other than a sponge, and all my spoons and even mash paddle are plastic. But I fear sometimes when stacking them inside each other that scratches can happen, so I dont even stack them any more.

I guess it comes down to personal preference.
 
Ah, the stacking part...I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I left out one important piece of info (my bad :mad: ) place a towel under each bucket as you slide it into the other bucket. This will keep them from scratching as well as from locking together (as in suction).

A good rinse (actually lots of them) after using bleach should be an understood.

Personal preference, what you grew up on, what you were taught, etc....yes, all parts of the same equation. Do what you like best and what suites your needs most.

We are all just here trying to help each other. :D

El P: Doh!!! :cross:
 
homebrewer_99 said:
Ah, the stacking part...I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I left out one important piece of info (my bad :mad: ) place a towel under each bucket as you slide it into the other bucket. This will keep them from scratching as well as from locking together (as in suction)...
Click to expand...

Damn thats a good idea!
 
Is temp. as important in the secondary? ie. do I need a thermometer for my secondary?

I have a bottling valve that I use already that will work just as well should I move to siphoning...
 
You should keep the temp in the range that your yeast likes. Fermentation is not done, but nearly done. Many people will hold the same temp as primary for some time, and then cool it down 10 degrees or more for another week to help clarify the brew.

As for your bottling tip and racking.... unless you have a wand that is more than 2 feet long, you probably can't use it when you rack to the secondary. My bottling tip is not long enough to reach the bottom of the carboy, which means I can't depress the tip of it and allow the beer to flow. I have to just use a standard siphon.

-walker
 
Shambolic said:
Is temp. as important in the secondary? ie. do I need a thermometer for my secondary?

I have a bottling valve that I use already that will work just as well should I move to siphoning...
Click to expand...

well, once transfered to the secondary, the fermentation should be complete. if it's an ale, room temp is perfectly okay for it to condition in the secondary for weeks.

is the bottling valve at the bottom of your primary bucket? or is it a bottle filler (spring loaded valve on a long plastic tube)?
 
Oh, yeah... I think you are right DeBroux. I misunderstood what he meant by "bottling valve", and I think he IS talking about the spigot on the bucket and not a wand.

-walker
 
By 'bottling valve' I meant the solid plastic tube (~30cm long) with the depressible nose that I jam into the spigot near the bottom of my fermenter...

I've never been told about this hot and cold break stuff. Does that mean you don't want to be stirring your brew after the hot break has occurred (so the protein gunk stays at the bottom)?

I actually didn't know why my fermenter quickly developed a thick layer of sludge on the bottom (before the yeast is even in there). Now I know...

I badly need to buy more equipment...
 
hey, i was right! you were talking about a bottling tip. So, my point stands; I don't think it's long enough to use for racking wort into a carboy.

As for stirring the wort: it's ok to stir it. the point is that you want to avoid transferring as much of the goop as possible into the fermenter. However, it's not THAT big of a deal. It won't ruin your beer, but it's better to leave that stuff out of the fermenter. You can accomplish this by letting the cooled wort rest and settle for 20 minutes or so before transferring to the carboy.

And, finally, w.r.t. buying more equipment; at this point it's a matter of convenience. I brewed my first 10 batches or so with great success, and the only equipment I had specific to beer making was one vinyl bag (for hops and grains), a stopper w/ airlock, double-level capper, one 6.5 gal carboy and 5 foot of hosing.

That worked just fine. Bottling was a mess since I had to keep kinking the hose off between bottles, but I managed just fine with that bare-bones pile of gear. (hell.. the vinyl bag was really a luxury item at the time.)

I still don't have anything 'special';
  • 6.5 gallon carboy
  • 5 gallon carboy
  • 5 foot of hose
  • racking cane
  • 3 vinyl bags
  • 2 stoppers w/ airlocks
  • bottling bucket w/ spigot
  • bottling wand (the best damn thing I've ever bought)

but, then again... I'm a tight-wad. I would like an auto-siphon, but don't see it as necessary in any way, just convenient.

-walker

-walker
 
Walker said:
I would like an auto-siphon, but don't see it as necessary in any way, just convenient.
Click to expand...
If you're an uncoordinated klutz (like myself) or if you ever plan to start a syphon while drunk, then an auto-siphon is much more than convenient. Besides it pays for itself in two sessions by avoiding waste/spillage. :cool:
 
by the time I get to a siphon, I'm usually pretty tipsy, but I just pre-fill the hose with boiled/cooled water and put my thumbs over the end. Insert one end here, the other end there, siphon goes. I've only spilled a little this way.

anyway, my point was just that fancy gear is not required, just convenient.

My birthday is coming up, and I know someone is going to get an auto-siphon for me, and I know I'll love it to pieces, but I'm a minimalist of sorts so never took the initiative to get one myself.

-walker
 
Walker said:
by the time I get to a siphon, I'm usually pretty tipsy, but I just pre-fill the hose with boiled/cooled water and put my thumbs over the end. Insert one end here, the other end there, siphon goes. I've only spilled a little this way.
Click to expand...
Yeah I've read that over and over again, and theoretically I understand how it should be done, but in practice it takes me at least three attempts and a quart of spilled wort. And that's when I'm sober. :D I may be the only one who feels this way, but after using it once, an auto-syphon is an absolute necessity.
 
Walker said:
...anyway, my point was just that fancy gear is not required, just convenient.

My birthday is coming up, and I know someone is going to get an auto-siphon for me, and I know I'll love it to pieces...
Click to expand...

For $10 (for 3/8", $14 for 1/2") you will find out that this is one of the best tools you can buy. A simple design that allows for better siphoning, and keeps your fingers away from the tubing and wort. The more you get into brewing, the more you will not want anything near your wort, tubing, buckets/carboys etc... I think you will love it.
 
FWIW I have found several glass carboys in perfect condition at yard sales. Just a couple weeks ago I paid one whole dollar for a 5 gallon glass carboy in perfect condition. A good soak, a good scrub, and a good rinse and it's ready to go.


Gilbey
 
my vote is for glass. I use glass for both primary and secondary. I like to watch the yeast do its thing.
 

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