Belgian Strong Fermentation

Ok im getting worried here... We brewed a belgian strong ale, used about 1 # of simple sugar in it, total starting gravity 1082.

Its been about 1 week and the gravity is only down to about 1040. Im beginnging to wonder if the fermentation has been stuck.

We used a wyeast belgian strong ale starter, that should attenuate around 75%, leaving us in the low 1020's... beginning to worry here. We are going to leave it primary for a few more weeks, so well see what happens.

Is this normal for this type of beer? We are used to hitting our target graivties by day 7.

Also, lets say it is stuck, what then?

bump, similar problem with a Gulden Draak clone. It fermented vigorously for two weeks, then less so for a week, now it's stuck at 1031 from an OG of 1105.

i can still see some activity, just thought it would be a quicker fermentation. i think worst comes to worst, will have to toss some champagne yeast, then move it off the cake when target gravity is met. never had a stuck ferment. i have also read that these yeasts can sometimes get lazy.

I don't think i'd worry yet - its dropped it 42 points in a week - pretty good. There are alot of variables - the fermentability of your wort, for example. Also, temperature, the size of your starter, etc.

You might gently shaking (you don't want to aerate or add oxygen to it) to stir up the yeast and raise the temperature to mid 70s - this would possibly give the yeast a little more energy and shouldn't be a problem with your Belgian - the fruity flavors from higher fermentation temperatures are desirable in Belgian beers.

yea its been relativiley cool here on the west coast. there is still about an inch of foam on that puppy and i can here the bubbles... although no blow off tube. but i tihnkit just needs more time based on what i have read on this site. its a big beer. its gunna take a while.

we will check it every few days and make sure it has not completely stopped. plenty of time left. we are going to put this one into a barrel whihc is now going for its voyage soak in water. will be an interesting batch, that is for sure.

Need grain bills
Mash temps
Size of yeast starters

pacebrew said:

yea its been relativiley cool here on the west coast. there is still about an inch of foam on that puppy and i can here the bubbles... although no blow off tube. but i tihnkit just needs more time based on what i have read on this site. its a big beer. its gunna take a while.

we will check it every few days and make sure it has not completely stopped. plenty of time left. we are going to put this one into a barrel whihc is now going for its voyage soak in water. will be an interesting batch, that is for sure.

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If you've still got krausen (foam) that puppy is still going. In my experience, Golden Strongs take a while. Take your time with that beer.

I've had the same issue after a two week primary. Raised the temp to 75* and it fired back up.

babalu87 said:

Need grain bills
Mash temps
Size of yeast starters

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For starters (pun intended), I underpitched. I've made big belgians before (although not this big) and got away with a liter starter so that's what I used.

I mashed at 152 for 75 minutes with a 168 mash out.

10 lbs 12 oz of Pilsner
5 pounds of 2-Row
1 lb of wheat malt
12 oz of crystal 60L
4 oz of Aromatic
4 oz of Biscuit
4 oz of Caramunich
1 lb 4 oz of table sugar
12 oz of Dark Candi Syrup (D1)

As mentioned, OG was 1105.

I'll buy another smack pack and pitch a 3 liter starter if I thought that would do the trick. Let me know any suggestions you have. I built an insulated box for it last night to get the temp up into the eighties.

3 days later it was half a brix lower... just seems like its going so damn slow...

was at 14 brix, and now at 13-13.5 brix 3 days later. hoping it gets to 10-11 brix here soon.

1.105 is a pretty big beer. A big starter and lots of oxygen at the start are keys in beers that big. You should likely have added some yeast nutrients as well to something that big at the beginning, and it's helpful again after a couple days, as the yeast can really deplete their nutrient reserves on something that big. It will still benefit from a bit of fermaid K or yeast energizer added into the fermentor. I'd start out with 1-2 grams mixed in a bit of sterile water, give the wort a light swirl, and keep your ferment temps in the middle to upper end of the yeasts recommended range.

room heated up and it kicked into high gear, about 1022 right now. About ready for secondary, and then it will be ready for the barrel.

Zen_Brew said:

1.105 is a pretty big beer. A big starter and lots of oxygen at the start are keys in beers that big. You should likely have added some yeast nutrients as well to something that big at the beginning, and it's helpful again after a couple days, as the yeast can really deplete their nutrient reserves on something that big. It will still benefit from a bit of fermaid K or yeast energizer added into the fermentor. I'd start out with 1-2 grams mixed in a bit of sterile water, give the wort a light swirl, and keep your ferment temps in the middle to upper end of the yeasts recommended range.

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Thanks, I do have some yeast energizer I bought for a future currant wine. I'll give it a shot. I'm in-flight back to Milwaukee from a skiing trip in CO and I'm curious to see how it's done in the new insulated box for six days.

Yeast energizer generated some immediate off-gassing, but no fermentation that I could tell. Would it be a waste to pitch another smack pack of the same yeast?

Ok, my Gulden Draak is still at 1.031. According to Beer Captured, it should be in the 1.020 to 1.026 range and it tastes a bit too heavy. I tried pitching another smack pack of 3787 and ramping up the temps, and it bubbled modestly for a four/five days, but not much of an improvement. I racked it to a keg but I'm thinking I should take one more kick at the cat.

What about pitching a package of champagne yeast?

It's possible there are no more fermentables. And it's just reached it's course. What was your mash temp?

pacebrew said:

It's possible there are no more fermentables. And it's just reached it's course. What was your mash temp?

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152

More details are in post #9.

You are done sir. Nothing more is going to happen to that beer. You really needed to pitch more and oxygenate well in the beginning in order to have good luck with such a big beer. At this point you need to get right back on the brew it again bus and do it better. That way you have less time to actually wait for the beer you were looking for.

I did the same thing for a Belgian strong that started at 1.100 and finished at 1.035. I was super pissed, but chalked it up to not enough yeast and not enough O2. I waited six months before trying something big like that again. It worked really well the next time because I made a huge starter and shook the chit out of it and it turned out perfect with 80% attenuation. Wish I hadn't waited the six months

Well you may be able to add enzymes to the veer and they will break sugars to easier to eat pieces but you risk over attenuation. I read up on it somewhere no link to provide.

Matt Up North said:

You are done sir. Nothing more is going to happen to that beer. You really needed to pitch more and oxygenate well in the beginning in order to have good luck with such a big beer. At this point you need to get right back on the brew it again bus and do it better. That way you have less time to actually wait for the beer you were looking for.

I did the same thing for a Belgian strong that started at 1.100 and finished at 1.035. I was super pissed, but chalked it up to not enough yeast and not enough O2. I waited six months before trying something big like that again. It worked really well the next time because I made a huge starter and shook the chit out of it and it turned out perfect with 80% attenuation. Wish I hadn't waited the six months

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Definitely needed a bigger starter, but I injected twice as much pure o2 as I normally do. I still don't understand, though, why the new yeast wouldn't help if my starter was the problem. I am providing fresh, unstressed, yeast and it didn't even move the hydrometer.

Most likely what is happening is that you are adding the yeast without having it built up to the alcohol that the beer is at, 8%+/- and since you aren't adding O2, it isn't able to take off like you want it to. As I said though, move on and make another and do it right. Don't linger too long on this one or you will get annoyed beyond all get up. I just did up a 1.120 beer down to 1.022 using the right amount of yeast to start with and shook the bejesus out of it.

More O2 won't help you if you underpitch your yeast. It will just make your yeast multiply more and then quit working. It is why when breweries make big beers like that they pitch an extraordinary quantity of yeast. I was talking with a friend and he apparently pitches nearly three times more. That means that when making 5 gallons you need to build a gallon starter in the beginning instead of a 1L starter. And that isn't 1 gallon of the bat, it is a 1.5L and then a 1 gallon starter. Or do what a bunch of people do and make a light beer and then use the yeast from that (key word being yeast, not trub, so you will have to rinse it).

Good luck on this beer and the next though. Get on making the next beer, you will be happy you did.

Thanks, Matt, I'm sure you are right and you have a good read on my level of frustration as well. I need to move on. I've spent well over the six hours it takes to brew a new batch of beer on trying to improve this one.

It's kegged now. I'll leave it kegged, carb it up, and serve it to whoever finds it enjoyable. Until I fill up all sixteen kegs again it shouldn't create any issues.

Another thing to think about with Belgians. If you are using Candi suggars or other non Grain malts for fermentable's. You can leave them out of the boil and initial fermentation. Just boil to sanatize (candi suggar doesn't realy need it but should be disolved for best consumption by yeasties) then chill to temp, pitch into fermenter after your initial fermentation begins to settle, the yeasties should rouse back up and contiue the crausen and such untill the point where the ABV is at the yeast's tollerance or there isn't any more fermentables to consume/convert.

With big beers 1080+ you realy should think about this. It's easier on the yeasties (not as much stress) and if you add a little at a time say = to .1 gravity points at a time you can manage full attenuation with the amount of remaining sweetness that you desire.

Like another said, don't let this set back stop you, get right back on that horse and try a different approach to solving your problem, and continue untill you find an approach that works for you and makes beer you like!

Cheers

FxdGrMind said:

Another thing to think about with Belgians. If you are using Candi suggars or other non Grain malts for fermentable's. You can leave them out of the boil and initial fermentation. Just boil to sanatize (candi suggar doesn't realy need it but should be disolved for best consumption by yeasties) then chill to temp, pitch into fermenter after your initial fermentation begins to settle, the yeasties should rouse back up and contiue the crausen and such untill the point where the ABV is at the yeast's tollerance or there isn't any more fermentables to consume/convert.

With big beers 1080+ you realy should think about this. It's easier on the yeasties (not as much stress) and if you add a little at a time say = to .1 gravity points at a time you can manage full attenuation with the amount of remaining sweetness that you desire.

Like another said, don't let this set back stop you, get right back on that horse and try a different approach to solving your problem, and continue untill you find an approach that works for you and makes beer you like!

Cheers

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Yeah, I found out about doing that while perusing homebrewtalk right after I pitched the yeast. Oh well, live and learn.