My Tastebuds Have Revolted!

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PavlovsCat

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A funny thing happened on the way to the homebrew. I now can't stand the big corporation beers. My usual swill was Corona (sans fruit of course), or a Miller Lite. But now I can't stand them. Now my favorite commercially available beer is Dogfish Head IPA 60. In fact I'm sipping one now as I type! And the ironic thing is that a friend of mine talked me into this beer making thing. Beer usually stayed in my fridge for weeks, now I can't keep it stocked fast enough. At first I thought, with all this beer drinking, I'm going to need therapy. At last, I think I've found the therapy!! And I've only been at this a couple of months. Where do I go from here??? ---- I've got my eye on a little Oatmeal Stout.

Enjoying the stoke.
 
Congratulations!

I had some Stone IPAs last night. Freaking Fantastic! And I am no Hop Head.

I can't wait to back up to the Taco Mac and have more!
 
Similar story here. When I was younger, I cut my teeth on Miller Lite. I mean when your 18 (the drinking age back then) and sitting on the beach all day, talking up girls in bikinis, drinking beer and listening to ZZ Top - oh the memories are coming back -, anyway when you're doing that, a cooler full of stout or something just won't do. For most of my adult life, as far as I knew, Miller Lite was all I really needed. Besides, it was cheap and in line with my pay scale.

Then, several years back I began to experiment with different brands, i.e. better quality brands and at some point all this great new stuff seemed to be everywhere on the shelf of my liquor store and even the grocery store. I tried all kinds of different import beer and craft beer. I got to where I kept 4 or 5 different styles in the fridge. No more single brand of beer. What I drink depends on my mood. And now I homebrew and so far I really like what I have made.

For Christmas someone gave me a gift basket with 12 bottles mixed of BMC. It's been taking up room in the fridge so last weekend I decided to drink some of it. It tastes like sour water. It's funny that I used to find it tasty. I plan on giving it away to a friend of mine that's still a BMC drinker next time I see him.

I have definitely crossed into a a totally different world as far a beer is concerned. It does cost me a bit more whether I buy good beer or I brew it myself, but I can never go back.

Dennis
 
Same thing here. I got behind on my brewing and have had to go without homebrew while my keg carbonates. Times are tight right now so instead of going and buying some craft brew, I got a bud light out that was left over from Christmas. It completely sucked. Just fizzy water, and I never realized how bad that stuff smells.
 
yeah df head is good stuff but the craft beer market is filled up with overpriced beer and half the time you don't know what you are getting.

i prefer to make my own specialty beer if i'm paying more, and buy the cheap stuff when mine aint available. once in a while DF head is worth it but rarely for the absurd prices they ask for beer that honestly isn't that much better than bud
 
I was talking with a friend about BMC and got to wondering just how much corn is in miller and how much rice is in bud.It's got to be at least 1/2 right?And at which percentage is it no longer considered beer?He was saying that he got a pitcher of Miller lite at the bbq joint and it tasted like piss so I said that when beer is brewed to taste like nothing, any flavor that does come thru is likely to taste bad.
 
yeah df head is good stuff but the craft beer market is filled up with overpriced beer and half the time you don't know what you are getting.

i prefer to make my own specialty beer if i'm paying more, and buy the cheap stuff when mine aint available. once in a while DF head is worth it but rarely for the absurd prices they ask for beer that honestly isn't that much better than bud

i would have to disagree baystate. craft beer isnt overpriced, it comes down to economies of scale, when you make more your costs of production are low, so when you are making 126 million barrels a year, the cost of your product on the market are gonna be MUCH better than a craft brewer making 35,000 barrels a year.

and imho craft beers are MUCH better tasting..
 
Well, I need to have someone teach me how to brew a beer that doesn't taste like bud....

Ok just kidding.. I finally finnished my first brew all the way to carbination...

Alas to my dismay it tastes like a dark colored Bud.... AAAAARRRRRGGGG... Ok the neighbors are going to LOVE IT! I hope my Mac&Jack clone going on the docket for Saturday's brew day has more "Flavor"...

Cheers
 
glohoppa. you are correct about economies of scale in the beer industry, to some extent. that's the competitive advantage firms like df head and southern tier have over the "big 4" commercial brewers- they can't compete with the big guys on scale, so they have to compete on quality and unique varieties. anheuser has 48% market share in the us beer market. it would be suicide for one to start a beer company and try to compete with them with a basic light lager.

because "uniqueness" is what allows smaller firms to stay in business, and because they can charge a premium for their product, it makes sense for them to keep scale down and prices high. this is what economists call product differentiation, and marketing has a lot more to do with it than the actual beer itself.

while you are correct to some degree about economies of scale, that is not the primary reason craft makers charge the prices they charge. there is a very small segment of the beer consuming population that buys craft beers. these are people to whom beer is more than just something to get drunk on or party with. craft beer consumers view beer as something inextricably tied to their personality- people who buy this kind of beer are afficionados. it's like cigars or whiskey. a small sub-population of consumers of those products are willing to pay a premium because of how it makes them feel about themselves.

the point is, craft firms KNOW this, and that is why they charge such exorbitant premiums for their products. in short, while economies of scale are definitely at play and partly explain higher prices for craft beers, that is most certainly not the primary reason you see firms like Stone charging TWENTY DOLLARS for a 4 pack of 12 oz beers. that is not economies of scale. that is very, very shrewd business acumen, and a keen awareness on the part of the brewery that there is a segment of the beer consuming population that will purchase their product almost regardless of price.
 
^^ One of the things I constantly try to get my bosses to understand is that your product does you no good if its sitting on the shelf with a pricetag that causes an aversion to being purchased by the consumer.

One great example was when I worked for this store, we had 2 batteries for this OLD phone, and I mean old. We had numerous requests for this battery but at a price of $60, no one would buy it. So they sat on the shelf for well over a year, until we got bought out.

What good does a battery do you sitting on a shelf for more than any sane person is willing to pay for it? What good does it do you if its out of reach financially of someone who Really wants it and is on the fence about purchasing it but cannot financially justify or afford it. Lets just say that aligning your product prices to the end user will net you more profit than trying to artificially keep your prices high. Haven't you economists seen this repeat over and over again with the housing market, stock market, commodities market? If so, then why do you all still preach it?

Anyway, BMC does start to taste like water thats flowing out of a trashcan in July in a landfill in Jersey. I used to be able to not think badly about drinking it, now I have to accept the fact that I am poor and that this is what I HAVE to drink if I want to have anything to drink at all.
 
yeah df head is good stuff but the craft beer market is filled up with overpriced beer and half the time you don't know what you are getting.

i prefer to make my own specialty beer if i'm paying more, and buy the cheap stuff when mine aint available. once in a while DF head is worth it but rarely for the absurd prices they ask for beer that honestly isn't that much better than bud

I think this is true of some of the craft beers out there going for $10 a 6er, but not true of all micro-brew or craft beer.....I think over the last 10 years there has been a glut of fresh-faced brews rushing to cash-in on the craft beer trend, and some have definitely been light on quality (I'm thinking, in my area, Oscar's and Tyranea brewing).....Others, though, just completely knock your socks off and are really worth the extra cash (In my area, New Glarus Brewing and Central Waters Brewing)....so it really jsut depends, and the trick is to figure out which one's are truly worth your extra-dollar..atleast IMHO.
 
good points. one thing that i think is interesting about the prices of craft beers, that i didn't mention earlier, but is related to what you say and this conversation in general, is the idea of exclusivity. what i mean by that is, certain products and types of products are believed to be priced at seemingly exorbitant levels by producers, because just by setting a price so high for a given product, the price contributes to an aura of exclusivity that the producer is trying to establish in the consumer mind around that product (usually along with other clever marketing and advertising schemes). for certain products, it may be that keeping prices very high contributes to establishing this aura of exclusivity. it works and economists have demonstrated it look up the reason why trendy restaurants DON'T expand when they sell out every night...this is intentional...expanding and lowering menu prices eliminates that restaurant's competitive advantage over other almost identical restaurants: popularity...people go there because other people do...if people see open tables in a bigger expanded restaurant, they start to go elsewhere. economists have documented this many times. if that restaurant expands and lowers menu prices to attract more people, it loses its core group of consumers.

the producer knows every tom dick and harry won't buy a craft beer, but for the demographic he is targeting (usually young, professional, urban males who aren't married and have the disposable income), that product is worth paying a premium for. that 1% of all consumers is willing to pay extra to feel special- like many things in life, it's about a sense of elitism and part of the "American" character, which has taught us to place a high value on rugged individualism and being a unique. we seek products that provide tangible evidence of our individuality. if craft makers LOWERED prices, they would not necessarily sell more. in the short term, perhaps sales would increase, but by lowering prices, the core group of buyers would be lost. they would no longer derive the satisfaction of exclusivity from that product and would go elsewhere, because they see that every tom dick and harry now can and does buy that same product. this product would then be in a lot of trouble, in the long run, because it loses its competitive advantage- uniqueness and appeal to a specific though concentrated and very real group of consumers with enough buying power to keep the firm afloat. at a lower price, these craft beers must now compete on price and scale with the big guys. at a lower price, the craft beer maker is now competing with huge commercial brewers for the business of tom dick and harry...not for the business of joe the 28 yr old urban professional with no wife and kids, who likes beer. they lose their competitive advantage in the beer market because they've lowered their price. in the long run, that product cannot compete and will disappear.

there is more to pricing than most people think. it's not as simple for every product as: lower the price, sell more, make more money. when it comes to say, bleach, yes, that is true: no one cares who makes their bleach. but not for every product and definitely not beer.
 
i should revise my earlier comment about craft beers being overpriced. as i think about what i said i don't think i agree...with myself. what i meant to say was, for me personally, the prices just aren't worth it. i should have been more articulate.
 
yeah df head is good stuff but the craft beer market is filled up with overpriced beer and half the time you don't know what you are getting.

i prefer to make my own specialty beer if i'm paying more, and buy the cheap stuff when mine aint available. once in a while DF head is worth it but rarely for the absurd prices they ask for beer that honestly isn't that much better than bud

Bud is the biggest rip off on the market. It costs them maybe 15 cents to fill their bottles, the rest is advertising, packaging, and shipping.
 
good points. one thing that i think is interesting about the prices of craft beers, that i didn't mention earlier, but is related to what you say and this conversation in general, is the idea of exclusivity. what i mean by that is, certain products and types of products are believed to be priced at seemingly exorbitant levels by producers, because just by setting a price so high for a given product, the price contributes to an aura of exclusivity that the producer is trying to establish in the consumer mind around that product (usually along with other clever marketing and advertising schemes). for certain products, it may be that keeping prices very high contributes to establishing this aura of exclusivity. it works and economists have demonstrated it look up the reason why trendy restaurants DON'T expand when they sell out every night...this is intentional...expanding and lowering menu prices eliminates that restaurant's competitive advantage over other almost identical restaurants: popularity...people go there because other people do...if people see open tables in a bigger expanded restaurant, they start to go elsewhere. economists have documented this many times. if that restaurant expands and lowers menu prices to attract more people, it loses its core group of consumers.

the producer knows every tom dick and harry won't buy a craft beer, but for the demographic he is targeting (usually young, professional, urban males who aren't married and have the disposable income), that product is worth paying a premium for. that 1% of all consumers is willing to pay extra to feel special- like many things in life, it's about a sense of elitism and part of the "American" character, which has taught us to place a high value on rugged individualism and being a unique. we seek products that provide tangible evidence of our individuality. if craft makers LOWERED prices, they would not necessarily sell more. in the short term, perhaps sales would increase, but by lowering prices, the core group of buyers would be lost. they would no longer derive the satisfaction of exclusivity from that product and would go elsewhere, because they see that every tom dick and harry now can and does buy that same product. this product would then be in a lot of trouble, in the long run, because it loses its competitive advantage- uniqueness and appeal to a specific though concentrated and very real group of consumers with enough buying power to keep the firm afloat. at a lower price, these craft beers must now compete on price and scale with the big guys. at a lower price, the craft beer maker is now competing with huge commercial brewers for the business of tom dick and harry...not for the business of joe the 28 yr old urban professional with no wife and kids, who likes beer. they lose their competitive advantage in the beer market because they've lowered their price. in the long run, that product cannot compete and will disappear.

there is more to pricing than most people think. it's not as simple for every product as: lower the price, sell more, make more money. when it comes to say, bleach, yes, that is true: no one cares who makes their bleach. but not for every product and definitely not beer.

Keep in mind also that the price you see in stores for a stone, dfh, chimay, whatever is very much based on the three-tier system in the US. A craft brewery has to "sell" its beer to a distributor, who turns around and "sells" it to a bar or liquor store, who then has to sell it to a consumer. for that reason, the price point that a lot of craft beer is at is due to the aforementioned economies of scale and also that they are at the will of how much the distributor AND the liquor store want to sell it at to turn a profit. assuming from your name, you are from MA. Here in MA we have vestiges of blue laws such as difficulty to sell beer on Sundays (lots more bureaucratic hoops to jump through), no happy hours, and if you run a special discount on beer it HAS to run for a full week.

Furthermore you're citing that there is little to no demand elasticity within the craft beer market, that people will pay whatever is necessary to get a certain beer. This is more of a half truth. The reality is that craft beer drinkers are mercurial folks. There are very few craft beer drinkers that stick to one brand as their go to, versus BMC drinkers who are almost religious in their brand loyalty. Go outside of a Kappy's or something and ask people as they come in what kind of beer drinker they are, and ask the same people when they come out. I will bet money that if you ask a bud drinker what they bought when they come out it will be Bud (duh). But if that person is a self-identified craft drinker, then even if their "FAVORITE" company is Stone, there is a very high percentage that they will walk out with SA, Rogue, DFH, New Glarus, or a half dozen other products. This is where branding comes into play. Craft beers have to focus on branding more than anything else to drive up demand and popularity as the Craft industry as a whole continues to expand. We as homebrewers know that grain and hop prices went up. Well the craft industry had to raise prices for those as well as taking a huge hit when the fuel prices were skyrocketing at the end of 2008.

Honestly, all I am trying to say is that it seemed to me like you were making out the craft beer industry as a bunch of fatcats who are marking up the price of their products 10000000% to turn a higher profit when it couldn't be farther from the truth. I apologize if that wasnt what you were trying to say as I am surely not trying to put words in your mouth, but as a member of the industry, I know way too many good people who simply love making good beer and showing the world what that is.
 
When money is tight enough that I have to switch over from craft beer to something a bit cheaper, I usually pick up a 30-pack of Keystone Light for $15 and a bottle of Jamesons Whiskey for about $18.

After a few shots, I (mercifully) can't even taste it.
 
A funny thing happened on the way to the homebrew. I now can't stand the big corporation beers. My usual swill was Corona (sans fruit of course), or a Miller Lite. But now I can't stand them. Now my favorite commercially available beer is Dogfish Head IPA 60. In fact I'm sipping one now as I type! And the ironic thing is that a friend of mine talked me into this beer making thing. Beer usually stayed in my fridge for weeks, now I can't keep it stocked fast enough. At first I thought, with all this beer drinking, I'm going to need therapy. At last, I think I've found the therapy!! And I've only been at this a couple of months. Where do I go from here??? ---- I've got my eye on a little Oatmeal Stout.

Enjoying the stoke.


Youa re a smart man... :mug:
 
if you have data to back up the contention that comercial beer consumers are more likely to stick to one brand, and craft beer drinkers are more likely to switch between brands, i would love to see it. the only way you can make that claim is with a survey or poll to support it. otherwise it's an incredibly weak contention that is purely speculative.

while it may be true that a segment of consumers who purchase commercial beer stick to one brand, without data, you can't claim that MOST of those consumers behave that way. i would be more inclined to believe that commercial beer drinkers, on the whole, believe there are several perfect substitutes for the kind of beer they prefer, and so their choice would be based on the lowest price or what is on sale this week. you are essentially saying that craft beer consumers have many close substitutes, while MOST commercial beer consumers do not have any substitutes at all and for some reason stick religiously to one brand, regardless of the price of other commercial beers. that is a very, very dubious contention to make without data, and i can tell you on a gut level, i do not believe that is true at all.

you're essentially saying that the average person who goes to pick up a 30 rack of bud will pass up a 30 rack of miller or coors or whatever is on sale for 3 bucks less. i don't buy that at all.

anyway the entire argument concerning demand elasticity or inelasticity for these products is irrelevant to craft beer pricing imho. specific brands of craft beer have nothing to do with my previous arguments, either. i think craft pricing has much more to do with marketing, creating a sense of exclusivity for the product, and economies of scale than anything else. understanding whether substitutable goods exist or not is not really central to understanding why these beers are priced the way they are, imho.
 
A funny thing happened on the way to the homebrew. I now can't stand the big corporation beers. My usual swill was Corona (sans fruit of course), or a Miller Lite. But now I can't stand them. Now my favorite commercially available beer is Dogfish Head IPA 60. In fact I'm sipping one now as I type! And the ironic thing is that a friend of mine talked me into this beer making thing. Beer usually stayed in my fridge for weeks, now I can't keep it stocked fast enough. At first I thought, with all this beer drinking, I'm going to need therapy. At last, I think I've found the therapy!! And I've only been at this a couple of months. Where do I go from here??? ---- I've got my eye on a little Oatmeal Stout.

Enjoying the stoke.

how is the ole waist line treating you? :D
 
A funny thing happened on the way to the homebrew. I now can't stand the big corporation beers. My usual swill was Corona (sans fruit of course), or a Miller Lite. But now I can't stand them. Now my favorite commercially available beer is Dogfish Head IPA 60. In fact I'm sipping one now as I type! And the ironic thing is that a friend of mine talked me into this beer making thing. Beer usually stayed in my fridge for weeks, now I can't keep it stocked fast enough. At first I thought, with all this beer drinking, I'm going to need therapy. At last, I think I've found the therapy!! And I've only been at this a couple of months. Where do I go from here??? ---- I've got my eye on a little Oatmeal Stout.

Enjoying the stoke.

I love my beer and commercially available craft beers as much as everyone else around here, but I don't have the hate for BMC that most others do. I really enjoy corona and will add some lime to it, in fact I think that bud lime is pretty good on a hot day while I'm firing up the grill. I like to pound bud lights with my friends on occassion and sometimes what I really want is a good stout, or an IPA, or especially a Kolsch. Usually when I go to the store to get some beer I pick up something new and some type of BMC product. What can I say, I love beer. :mug:
 
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