Well it is cooling of in Texas (maybe) 100 Tuesday, anyway fall is coming and I start thinking brewing time. I need a clone for Ziegenbock. Yes, I know who makes it. I would like it to have a little more flavor but without heavy flavor of a Bock I know thats what makes it a Bock I just want a lighter one. I made one using Steam style yeast once and everybody wanted some. (maybe it is just an amber "Bocked" with lager yeast and Munich in it) I like it just needs more hops etc.