How long should primary fermentation take?

I'm making some White House Honey Ale using a kit from my local brew shop.

It is currently sitting in a plastic pale undergoing primary fermentation.

The instructions call for racking after 2-3 days, when the appearance of the foam changes and it starts to collapse.

However, lots of information I am finding online says that it should sit in the pale for longer.

I've followed this shop's instructions in the past to bad results. So, naturally I am now second-guessing what they are telling me.

Does 2-3 days sound okay to you?

You determine when a beer is done by taking 2 gravity readings over a 3 day period. I recommend folks do the first one on day 10 or 12 after yeast pitch, and another one 2 days later.

But the beer's instructions are saying that the racking should take place on day 2 or 3. That's a huge difference from day 10 or 12.

Not too sure what to do.

If you aren't going to take a gravity reading, then wait 2-3 wks and you should be good. Don't be in a hurry. I always wait a month before kegging bottling. Most beer does better with time.

By the way, I'm not talking about bottling here...but racking from my primary fermentor into the carboy....

HappyWarrior said:

But the beer's instructions are saying that the racking should take place on day 2 or 3. That's a huge difference from day 10 or 12.

Not too sure what to do.

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Ignore the lousy instructions, and do what we suggest.

HappyWarrior said:

By the way, I'm not talking about bottling here...but racking from my primary fermentor into the carboy....

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Still, 2-3 days is generally way too fast to take a a beer off the primary yeast cake. It's simply bad advice.

rgarry said:

If you aren't going to take a gravity reading, then wait 2-3 wks and you should be good. Don't be in a hurry. I always wait a month before kegging bottling. Most beer does better with time.

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Me too. Pitch yeast, come back in a month, keg or bottle.

HappyWarrior said:

By the way, I'm not talking about bottling here...but racking from my primary fermentor into the carboy....

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Yeah, we know. We're saying that racking at 2-3 days is idiotic. Bad information. You don't rack til the beer is done, and it usually takes around 7-10 days for fermentation to be complete. Often yeast doesn't even TAKE OFF for 72 hours. (look for the sticky at the top of the beginner's section that says "Yeast can take between 24 and 72 hours to show visible signs)

If you rack like those instructions, often folks end up with a stuck fermentation.

I suggest IF people choose to use a secondary which in 80% of the beers we brew (like this honey ale) I think is unnecessary and opt for an extended primary, that they rack if the gravity is stable at around day 14 and secondary for a minimum of 2 weeks, or as long as they feel necessary or can tell the beer is clear.

It's bad information. Don't rack it until several days after it hits FG. You should tell your LHBS that their instructions are crap.

When I brewed my first batch of beer (A Hefeweizen), the LHBS instructions said to rack to a secondary after 4-5 days. I knew nothing of this website, and so I followed the instructions. I was actually still getting a lot of airlock activity when I racked it over!

So into the secondary it went. Then the instructions said to bottle after 5 more days. I had a lot of trub in the bottom of the secondary, and still had airlock activity!

But... as per the instructions... I racked it to a bottling bucket and added the priming sugar, and bottled. 2 weeks later I had homebrew... It had a lot of carbonation, and tasted super bland and had no mouthfeel... really watery. I didn't have any bottle bombs or squirters... but it was over carbed.

Then I stumbled on to this website. Read my ass off... asked a couple of dumb questions... and bought another kit. But pitched the LHBS instructions in the trash. I never racked to a secondary on that next kit and kept the brew in the primary 3 weeks. After 2 gravity readings that were the same over a 3 day period... I bottled. It turned out fantastic. It was an Amber.

For kicks, I brewed the same kit again that I bought on my first attempt. I again ditched the LHBS instructions and went on info I got on here. Waddayaknow? I actually had a good drinkaable Hefeweizen that actually had flavor, and good carb.

So... believe my friend... believe.

Gary

GASoline71 said:

For kicks, I brewed the same kit again that I bought on my first attempt. I again ditched the LHBS instructions and went on info I got on here. Waddayaknow? I actually had a good drinkaable Hefeweizen that actually had flavor, and good carb.

So... believe my friend... believe.

Gary

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THIS is one of the best, clearest examples on here I've seen. This is also the same argument I've used when folks bash extract beers, or Mr beer beers.....It's NOT the kit, it's the methods used. If you follow the instructions as written, like most folks do when they start out, you're going to make beer that more than likely is mediocre....But if you follow the suggestions and tips we talk about on here daily, such as simply slowing down, or using temp control, pitching a healthy amount of yeast, yadda yadda yadda, the same kit/recipe becomes GREAT beer.

Just to add, this is a palstic pale with a lid and no hole for an airlock.

Is it okay to leave it like this? So far I've simply put the lid on top but haven't snapped it down.

HappyWarrior said:

Just to add, this is a palstic pale with a lid and no hole for an airlock.

Is it okay to leave it like this? So far I've simply put the lid on top but haven't snapped it down.

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It's not ok to totally seal a fermenter. It will definitely blow the lid. If you don't want to bother making a hole for an airlock just leave it like you have it, that'll be ok.

HappyWarrior said:

Just to add, this is a palstic pale with a lid and no hole for an airlock.

Is it okay to leave it like this? So far I've simply put the lid on top but haven't snapped it down.

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yes. You could put a weight, like a brick on top just top keep overagressive co2 from popping the lid off. Plenty of oldschool fermenters were just done with a sheet of plexiglass on top of the bucket, or even cafeteria trays.

If you were to opt for an extended primary in it, after two weeks when fermentation ceased, I would definitely snap the lid down tight, to keep fruitflies from getting in. But with co2 offgassing through the loose lid, things can't get in with gas coming out.

You need to wait until the yeast have done it's job. This usually takes at least 1 week before racking to a secondary. As stated, the true way is when your gravity readings have stabilized and stopped dropping.

How long should primary fermentation take?

There's a story, that someone once asked Abe Lincoln "How long should a man's legs be?" Lincoln's answer was, "Long enough to reach the ground."

I think a similar answer applies here.

On the 14th day I plan to take a final gravity reading...if it is ready for bottling, does it hurt to extend the fermentation by another couple of days if I do not have time to bottle that day?

iahomebrew said:

On the 14th day I plan to take a final gravity reading...if it is ready for bottling, does it hurt to extend the fermentation by another couple of days if I do not have time to bottle that day?

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I've extended that time by nearly 2 months without a problem.:rockin:

RM-MN said:

I've extended that time by nearly 2 months without a problem.:rockin:

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Awesome, thanks! This is my first batch so I'm a little worried about how it's going to turn out.

If you look at a typical yeast attentuation cycle, as found here for US-05, then one can expect yeast fermentation to be completed around 10-15 days. Often shorter with some Ale yeasts (s-04 reached attenuation in 6-7 days). You also need to factor in your fermentation temp. So the colder you ferment, then I assume the longer it will take for the yeast to do its job.

My recent experiments with both an IPA and Red Ale (using S-04) were pretty much done and 75% attenuated at day 7. That was at 62 degrees, then pushed to perhaps 66 degrees to finish them both off. They are now being crashed to clear. Could just as easily have bottled them I guess.

My question to the HBT literati would be what benefits am I deriving after the yeast has done its job? How should time in the primary differ between lager (which often come with suggestions to go longer in primary), an IPA (which folk say to bottle as quick as you can - in some reads - to take advantage of flavour), and then common ales and stouts. What does extra time in the primary get you?

RM-MN said:

I've extended that time by nearly 2 months without a problem.:rockin:

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RM - Do you notice a difference in your final product when you do this, or were you just waiting for empty bottles, too lazy to bottle?

If done by design, is the 2 months you leave it worth the wait if there is an appreciable difference?

Nubiwan said:

RM - Do you notice a difference in your final product when you do this, or were you just waiting for empty bottles, too lazy to bottle?

If done by design, is the 2 months you leave it worth the wait if there is an appreciable difference?

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Both but the first one came as a result of the second. We tell people that it should be 3 weeks from bottling to drinking to allow time for carbonation. That isn't correct, it only takes 24 to 36 hours to get the carbon dioxide in the beer but then the beer has no head on it when poured. Waiting a few more days gets you a small head when you pour, waiting the full 3 weeks gets you the appropriate heading.

Then comes the maturing of beer. A wheat beer needs almost none and the 3 weeks waiting in bottles is more than sufficient. As beers get darker in color and/or higher in alcohol, they need more time to mature to reach their peak flavor. Note that not everyone agrees on this point as some like their beers fresh. The beer that I left in the fermenter for the 9 weeks had time to do most of its maturing there so when I bottled it and let it have the 3 weeks there, it was already matured and at peak flavor. That was for an amber or brown ale. My stouts take more like a year to hit peak flavor (or more) and I don't want them in the fermenter that long so they usually get bottled at 3 to 4 weeks and mature in the bottle. An imperial stout might take longer yet.

RM-MN said:

Both but the first one came as a result of the second. We tell people that it should be 3 weeks from bottling to drinking to allow time for carbonation. That isn't correct, it only takes 24 to 36 hours to get the carbon dioxide in the beer but then the beer has no head on it when poured. Waiting a few more days gets you a small head when you pour, waiting the full 3 weeks gets you the appropriate heading.

Then comes the maturing of beer. A wheat beer needs almost none and the 3 weeks waiting in bottles is more than sufficient. As beers get darker in color and/or higher in alcohol, they need more time to mature to reach their peak flavor. Note that not everyone agrees on this point as some like their beers fresh. The beer that I left in the fermenter for the 9 weeks had time to do most of its maturing there so when I bottled it and let it have the 3 weeks there, it was already matured and at peak flavor. That was for an amber or brown ale. My stouts take more like a year to hit peak flavor (or more) and I don't want them in the fermenter that long so they usually get bottled at 3 to 4 weeks and mature in the bottle. An imperial stout might take longer yet.

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So the next question might be is it better to mature in the bottle, or in the fermenter? Are the results of both maturations the same? I would expect results to be different, somehow. I have no basis for this, but gut feeling.

Maturing in a bottle would seem more secure from infection. But are you getting the same results as say a month left in a primary to the same time in a bottle?

Nubiwan said:

So the next question might be is it better to mature in the bottle, or in the fermenter? Are the results of both maturations the same? I would expect results to be different, somehow. I have no basis for this, but gut feeling.

Maturing in a bottle would seem more secure from infection. But are you getting the same results as say a month left in a primary to the same time in a bottle?

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Yes, but if you don't open the fermenter the beer is pretty safe in there too. I can't tell you if both mature the same, I usually don't leave the beer that long and I seldom brew the same kind of beer twice in a row so I don't have another to compare with.

Never panic. Many people who panic end up doing something that screws up the beer when there was nothing actually wrong in the first place.

1) One week is the least amount of time you want to leave the beer in the fermenter. Many will leave 2 weeks. For years I had a rule of thumb 1 week in primary fermenter and 2 weeks in secondary fermenter than bottle. That's what worked for me.

2) Get used to taking OG/FG readings. If your target FG reading is 1.010 and you take a reading that's 1.020, than you know it needs to sit on the yeast longer.

3) Watch the bubbling of the airlock. General estimate, 3-5 seconds between bubbles means the fermentation is alive and strong. Expect it to slow down over the course of a week or two. Eventually it gets to about 30 seconds between bubbles or no bubbles. Note: just because it's not bubbling doesn't mean it's not still fermenting. When you get down to 30 seconds between bubbles feel free to take a reading. But, as others have said, you run the risk of infection every time the fermenter is opened. Buy a wine theif - it makes taking samples easier.

4) I've had beers ferment in 3 days. I've had beers take 3 weeks. Depends on the beer, yeast and conditions.

5) Lager yeasts take longer than ale yeasts - 2 to 4 weeks primary fermentation. Although I've hit my FG faster with some yeasts/conditions.

some very informative reading here gives me confidence that my first brew is going to be bang on thank u all