Anyone haerd of these new Yeasts from Mangrove Jack's (New Zealand)

British Ale M07 in a cream ale worked out pretty good so far but I've only had a 3 oz sample for gravity checking. Lag time was 18 hours for a relatively low gravity beer (1.047). Fermented in lower 60s for first 4 days and mid 60s for the remaining 10 days. It came out very clean and ester neutral; no "british" character at all which I expected; overall a good pick for a cream ale or any ale you want really yeast-neutral (more so than US05). I was expecting around 75% attenuation and ended up with about 70% (and that's WITH 0.5 lb table sugar). Luckily, the 70% attenuation will work out better for this beer in the long run. Overall impression is that this is a Nottingham equivalent with slightly lesser attenuation.

Well, my O'Fest with M84 took 3rd place at the OC Fest of Ales for Cat3, so it's got something going for it. And that was submitted a bit too young as well.

bwarbiany said:

Well, my O'Fest with M84 took 3rd place at the OC Fest of Ales for Cat3, so it's got something going for it. And that was submitted a bit too young as well.

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Cool, I'm gonna send 3 of my batches to comp in October. Below is my house lager fermented with it. Gonna submit it in 1C, Premium American Lager.

Drinking the M27 Blond now, and while there is plenty of spicy Belgian character, it is actually a bit thin-tasting. OG 1062, FG 1008 - I think it over-attenuated. My notes say I mashed for 90 minutes, starting at 152 and ending at 150. Grist was 10 lbs Pilsner, 1 lb Munich, 9 oz Honey malt, 5 oz Victory.

using the lager yeast M84, pitched two packets straight into wort, 4 day lag, after that healthy ferment at 49*.
grist:
8.5 lb domestic pils
.5 lb brown malt
.4 lb honey malt
1/4 oz Willamette at 60 mins
2 oz Will and 4 Amarillo whirlpool, chilled to 57*

OG 1050, FG 1013

Did it start fermenting at 49F? If so, maybe these packs don't have a true 200billion cells. May need 3 for a lager ferment.

oxpajama said:

using the lager yeast M84, pitched two packets straight into wort, 4 day lag, after that healthy ferment at 49*.
grist:
8.5 lb domestic pils
.5 lb brown malt
.4 lb honey malt
1/4 oz Willamette at 60 mins
2 oz Will and 4 Amarillo whirlpool, chilled to 57*

OG 1050, FG 1013

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RCCOLA said:

Did it start fermenting at 49F? If so, maybe these packs don't have a true 200billion cells. May need 3 for a lager ferment.

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Hit it with O2 a couple times... It sat at 50 for three days, raised it to 58 on the fourth morning, by evening it was going steady so I put it back down to 49 which didn't slow it down any. raised to 55 when gravity read 1020 then 60 the next day.

Tastes like lager, some sulfur. Three packets for M84 seems advisable, unless the beer is a lightweight.

bwarbiany said:

Well, my O'Fest with M84 took 3rd place at the OC Fest of Ales for Cat3, so it's got something going for it. And that was submitted a bit too young as well.

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Nice work. How young is a bit too young? Mine is about 7 weeks lagering now and it's tasting pretty good, certainly one of the better beers I've ever brewed. The yeast definitely has a unique character.

oxpajama said:

Hey guys, watch this

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So far M02 seems to perform like the yeast description, high floculation (ignoring the orange juice haze), I'll report an FG and tasting notes when I rack. Used 1/2 tsp yeast nutrient even though MJ says M02 has nutrient in the package. Fermentation was steady, pitched at 68*, peak fermentation was at 76* for a few hours until I cooled it back down to 73*.

I have yet another high FG in a helles I brewed with the Workhorse fermented at 64F and aerated with pure O2 for 90 seconds. Starting gravity 1.051, gravity after a week and 3 days 1.016. Was expecting at least 1.012. I'm annoyed. I think I'm done with this company's yeast as I've had every beer but ones made with the Boh Lager yeast finish high.

I've currently got a 10 gallon split batch of Boh Pils going with M84 and Saflager 34/70. The 34/70 was up and going after 18 hours @ 51*F. The M84 hasn't started yet and it's been 56 hours. Looks like I'll be doing d-rest on the 34/70 before the M84 ever gets going.

beersk said:

Nice work. How young is a bit too young? Mine is about 7 weeks lagering now and it's tasting pretty good, certainly one of the better beers I've ever brewed. The yeast definitely has a unique character.

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It was submitted 6 weeks from the date it was brewed, judged 8 weeks from brew day. I don't know whether it was stored cold after submission.

FWIW, I just had my Oktoberfest party over the weekend, and both the Oktoberfestbier and the Schwarzbier got rave reviews. I did pigeonhole one of the guys from the brew club into giving me some honest feedback and he thought the Oktoberfestbier was a bit on the fruity side -- possibly from the 4-day lag time. The Schwarzbier didn't have that issue. Overall, though, with 6 beers on tap, the entire keg of O'fest went dry at the very end of the party... So someone liked it!

77 Hours and counting. M84- Absolutely nothing! 34/70 rolling strong.

Quick update:
Brewed a hop harvest pale ale on 9/22; OG 1.058; 5.3 gallons; mashed at 153F
Pitched rehydrated US West Coast M44 at 61F
32hr lag time at 63F
Transferred to keg today at 1.010 (~81% AA) (~15 days since fermentation really began)
Sample tasted fine but was less than an ounce so was hard to tell (pale ale-ish anyway)
Dry hopped with few remaining hops pulled from bines yesterday (~0.75 oz)

That's fairly high attenuation for a medium mash temp. I look forward to tasting more in a few days. Overall, it was very minimal yeast character (to be expected). Can't say I noticed any fruit or mineral as is indicated by wyeast's pacman, but I'll have a better idea soon. If I had to guess (and I do), I would estimate US West Coast M44's attenuation range to be from 76-84%.

Yeah, I got high attenuation from the M44 too. Maybe just a tad high for my attempt at American red, and higher than the attenuation I've got previously from US05 and from San Diego Superyeast.

100 Hours and still nothing. Whats going on here? 34/70 is going gangbusters.

Are you by chance in a bucket with a not-great sealing lid and judging by airlock activity?

stpug said:

Are you by chance in a bucket with a not-great sealing lid and judging by airlock activity?

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No. 10 gallon all grain batch split into two 5 gallon glass carboys with blow off tubes in a fermentation chamber held at 53*F. 34/70 is rolling at high krausen. There is absolutely no activity from the M84. This is an OG 1.055 BoPils. Both batches were two packets, re-hydrated in boiled and cooled to 50*F water and pitched at the same time. Both have expiration dates in 11/2014 and both were purchased from the same place and arrived at the same time.
In another 48 hours if no activity, I'm probably gonna re-pitch with 34/70. This stuff is unbelievable. When I read about a four day lag I thought I had made a mistake by buying it, but WOW! You just can't make this crap up! I've got two more packets that'll be thrown out for sure.

Wow! That really is incredible. I would be throwing a fit if I was you. Actually, I probably would have repitched new yeast at 100 hours (lager or not). That might be one of those yeasts that's worth getting going at elevated temps and then cooling to fermentation temps after signs of activity. I hope the batch works out for you!

I had kicked myself for not ordering that yeast but figured I already had a versatile lager strain on hand and don't have a great fermentation chamber set up; boy, I'm not kicking myself anymore

Everything still looks OK. No signs of an infection or anything. So I might go ahead a re-pitch tomorrow night. I'll have 5 gallons a week apart I suppose. I was just really wanting to see what the differences would be for these yeasts and I had had high hopes for the Mangrove Jack. Oh well, as long as the 34/70 treats me right I'll proabably stick with it.
I really like to convienience of dry yeast and wanted to experiment with the dry lager strains before I decided what to use as my go to.

mblanks2 said:

Everything still looks OK. No signs of an infection or anything. So I might go ahead a re-pitch tomorrow night. I'll have 5 gallons a week apart I suppose. I was just really wanting to see what the differences would be for these yeasts and I had had high hopes for the Mangrove Jack. Oh well, as long as the 34/70 treats me right I'll proabably stick with it.
I really like to convienience of dry yeast and wanted to experiment with the dry lager strains before I decided what to use as my go to.

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I think you can safely say it won't be MJ M84

mblanks2 said:

100 Hours and still nothing. Whats going on here? 34/70 is going gangbusters.

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Crazy, I know. I didn't get activity until about 92-94 hours, and that was after warming up to about 58 degrees.

I'll never use it again. Back to 34/70 for me.

stpug said:

I think you can safely say it won't be MJ M84

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It definitely will not.

I'll never use it again. Back to 34/70 for me.

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That will be my plan as long as it turns out well.

Anyone have issues with Workhorse Yeast at temps lower than 68. I have had three beers I used this yeast on taste flat after bottling and one Oktoberfest that I pitched on a cake that came out excellent. I'm suspecting a bad capper but I wonder if this yeast needs a higher fermenting temp. That or my bottling conditioning temp of 68 is too low and I just need to walk away from the beer for a few more weeks. One was a simple 1.050 ale that has been in bottles 2 months and still tastes green. I made a mistake and bought into the hype of these yeasts and didn't take it easy to make sure they worked for me. Now I have 3 two case batches that aren't fit yet for drinking. This is messing with my pipeline and has me swearing off MJ Workhorse yeast. As a disclaimer the New Castle Brown yeast makes an excellent Northern Brown Ale which I managed to drink way to quickly but the Workhorse except for the Oktoberfest I did is bumming me out. By the way all of my brews were AG BIAB.

Did a split 10G Nut Brown Ale batch with the British Ale and the Burton Union. The British came out nice but the Burton Union was a homerun. The character and depth are phenomenal. Perfect profile for the recipe I created. Fermented both side by side at 67 degrees which is on the lower end for both strains. Wanted them to be as clean as possible.

Gmulerulz said:

Anyone have issues with Workhorse Yeast at temps lower than 68. I have had three beers I used this yeast on taste flat after bottling and one Oktoberfest that I pitched on a cake that came out excellent. I'm suspecting a bad capper but I wonder if this yeast needs a higher fermenting temp. That or my bottling conditioning temp of 68 is too low and I just need to walk away from the beer for a few more weeks. One was a simple 1.050 ale that has been in bottles 2 months and still tastes green. I made a mistake and bought into the hype of these yeasts and didn't take it easy to make sure they worked for me. Now I have 3 two case batches that aren't fit yet for drinking. This is messing with my pipeline and has me swearing off MJ Workhorse yeast. As a disclaimer the New Castle Brown yeast makes an excellent Northern Brown Ale which I managed to drink way to quickly but the Workhorse except for the Oktoberfest I did is bumming me out. By the way all of my brews were AG BIAB.

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I used the Workhorse, fermented at 60°. Just kegged 2 days ago, sample was tasty.

Can't wait until I can start kegging, cause the more I think about my carbing issue the more I want to blame the capper for not giving me a proper seal on the bottles. Nothing else makes sense to me since others have had decent success and my OG and FG readings have been spot on.

oxpajama said:

So far M02 seems to perform like the yeast description, high floculation (ignoring the orange juice haze), I'll report an FG and tasting notes when I rack. Used 1/2 tsp yeast nutrient even though MJ says M02 has nutrient in the package. Fermentation was steady, pitched at 68*, peak fermentation was at 76* for a few hours until I cooled it back down to 73*.

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Racked to secondary today. Gravity reads 1.004, smells sweet and fruity, no sulfur. Tastes tart, a little yeast bite still, fruity and hey, No Barf!

This reached 76*f at one point so M02 seems to have a generous temp range.

163 hours and the MJ M84 has finally started working. High krausen at 184 hours. It's really going to be interesting to see how these two turn out. I'm really glad I decided to wait on the re-pitch. At least now I can see what flavor differences there are.
I won't use this yeast again due to it's lag time, but it's turning out to be an interesting experiment to say the least.

bwarbiany said:

Crazy, I know. I didn't get activity until about 92-94 hours, and that was after warming up to about 58 degrees.

I'll never use it again. Back to 34/70 for me.

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Same here. In fact, I don't think I'll be using any Mangrove Jack's yeast again. Too many beers under attenuating - with pure O2, rehydration, low 150's mash temps, etc. Just not happening, it's bizarre and frustrating. 34/70 is a pretty awesome dry lager yeast.
I'm drinking an oatmeal stout now that finished at 1.023 on a repitch. Brew in a bag mashed at 154F for 60 minutes, no heat added, didn't lose much temp. Pitched a jar of Newcastle Dark Ale harvested yeast, shook to aerate...couldn't believe it was so weak. It didn't even take off super quickly. I'm not using that stuff again. I know the yeast packet says it's selected to not over attenuated, but jesus man...it under attenuates...

Up till now, I've used US West Coast, British Ale, and Burton Union. I'm actually seeing much higher apparent attenuation than I'd expect. In some cases, I planned on the FG to be a bit higher.

US West Coast: Pale Ale, OG 1.058, FG 1.010, AA ~82%, mash 153F, lag 32hr at 63F with sachet, yeast is very complementary/neutral
British Ale: Cream Ale, OG 1.047, FG 1.010, AA ~78%, mash 150F, lag 18hr at 64F with sachet, good mouthfeel, subtle yeast flavor
British Ale: Amber Ale, OG 1.068, FG 1.011, AA ~84%, mash 151F, lag ~20hr at 61F with 120ml slurry, excellent mouthfeel, boldness of beer outshines subtle yeast flavor
Burton Union: ESB, OG 1.055, FG 1.012, AA ~77%, mash 152F, lag 15hr at 64F with sachet, some light fruit and mineral esters, nice maltiness remain

Overall, I'm pleased with the three strains I've used so far. The US West Coast in the Pale Ale was a perfect choice - it really worked out well. Also, the British in the Amber Ale works very well together. The cream ale either could have been fermented cooler (high 50s) or use a different yeast; it's still a good beer but when such light characteristics the yeast comes forward more than I had hoped. The ESB is pretty good but it's only 19 days old so the jury is still out on this one - I like it and it's fairly British in yeast character.

Stpug, From 2 browns and one PA with Burton Union, I found that they are all cleaner after about a month. They all tasted green for a few weeks, but last night I was very impressed with, and proud of, my N. English brown

Right so I've had both the Bo Pils and Hefe yeasts stall on me now so won't be using them again any time soon. The M07 ale does produce a super delicious cream of 3 crops cream ale though..

MacrosNZ said:

Right so I've had both the Bo Pils and Hefe yeasts stall on me now so won't be using them again any time soon. The M07 ale does produce a super delicious cream of 3 crops cream ale though..

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hope the 2 pilsners I brewed last week don't stall! Used 2 sachets of bo pils per batch. Here's hoping...

well, they both bubbling away so i'm happy so far......

oxpajama said:

Hey guys, watch this

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On 9/22 I put together this Orange juice cider, IMO you have to use better ingredients to have a better end product. Organic juices taste fuller/sweeter, and more flavorful to me.

2.5 gal organic apple juice
1 gal organic orange juice
1/2 oz med toast American oak chips in primary
Mangrove Jack's M02 Cider yeast, rehydrated, hit must with O2
one tap yeast nutrient
OG 1054
11/8 FG 1004
average fermentation temp was 73*
couple weeks ago I added 1/2 oz sweet orange peel to secondary to enhance citrus character.

Yesterday I tried out my new carbonater cap, cranked it up to 35 psi and shook. The chilled sample is quite clear, tart, very spritzy, the flavors are light, not a ton of citrus but its there. The apple comes through on the finish, and I'm getting some nice soft fruity esters from M02, but this is sour first, might could use half lb of orange blossom honey in the keg.

No weird fermented OJ flavors here to speak of, it does need some sweetness to balance it out, the oak seems nonexistent.

Here is a short re-cap on my experiences with Workhorse yeast.
12/29/13 brewed a RIPA. OG 1.062. Fermented @ 60f. I used 2 pkg of yeast. There was a 12 hour lag in the start of visible fermentation. 1/6 gravity was 1.020 and HUGE yeast rafts. Warmed up to 72f for a day and then back down to 64f. 1/16 gravity 1.014, very cloudy small yeast rafts. This was my expected OG. I decided to cold crash. I know it may tick off a point or 2, I am ready to have this one done.

This yeast acts differently than I expected. Unless the beer turns out really, really good and clears well, I probably won't use again. I will post again after it is carbed and ready to go.

I did one with workhorse, I noticed it fermented for days, while my US05 stopped showing co2 activity a lot earlier. I have not checked gravity, will report back my findings. Hope to rack this weekend

I got hit by the (ridiculously) low attenuation bug using MJ Newcastle Dark Ale yeast. The same bug that bit beersk a few posts back. I brewed a 1.038 mild that finished at 1.016, and that was using 7 oz invert sugar and a small percentage of dark malts. Calculation: ~57% attenuation

The beer itself tastes fine if not a little thin. It does not taste under attenuated or sweet; in fact it tastes very NOT sweet, surprisingly. The yeast flocculates very well - too well. Good brewing practices were followed throughout: aerated with O2, rehydrated yeast, lag time was short - under 12 hours, fermentation chamber at 64F allowed to rise to 68F, brought to 71F room temp when temp dropped to 67F and allowed to remain at 70s for 7 more days, crash cooled.

I had mashed high at 156F since I was looking to have some body to the beer and didn't want it to finish sub-10. Turns out, MJNDA can't eat sugar with any complexity to it whatsoever. BTW, I've mashes at 156F a few times before without this kind of reaction from the yeast. I suspect a 150F mash would have ended maybe 4 points lower.

Moral of the story: When using this yeast, set BeerSmith yeast properties to 64-70 attenuation, mash very low, consider a sugar addition, be prepared for your beer to finish a bit higher than expected.

Aside from the attenuation issue (which is hard for me to look past), the yeast itself worked very quickly and the beer tastes very nice. There is a fair amount of non-sweet maltiness remaining in the beer especially when you consider it's a full 5 gallon batch with 6 lbs of grain . Since I've only had a sample it's hard to really tell the yeast character, but I do feel like I sense some dark fruit characteristics but they are subtle and work with the beer flavors. As a comparison, Burton Union gives pronounced yeast character to it's beers. The final ABV in right around 2.9% so you can even let your kids try without feeling terrible

I forgot my numbers with the Newcastle Dark Ale but I'm sure I was getting an attenuation around 65%. Tasted really good, though, plenty of chewy malts. Did you rouse the beer at all? Maybe the strain flocculates a tad too easily and needs to be brought back into suspension.