What setup would you get? Help a brewer get an automated system.

OK so long story short I am getting an inheritance and part of that I have been allotted by the wife to fulfill my brewing dreams and finally purchase a full blown automatic brew setup. Im looking to spend around $6,000 on the system. So... with that what setup would you guys recommend. Ive been really eying up the Morebeer single tier setup but the 13 week wait time sucks. The Sabco looks good as well but I have heard they have issues with maintaining mash temps on the new RIMS setup they use. Is there something else you would recommend? Im looking for as much automation as possible. I know I could build a setup much cheaper but I just dont want to do that as I dont have the time or skill to be able to build the type of setup I want. I wouldnt mind going electric but the brewmation system looks expensive for what you get. ANy help would be much appreciated! Cheers

I just got an email from the magic brew system and they have free shipping until the end of March.

Did yo mean Brew magic? Or is the magic brew a different setup?

Brew magic yes sorry I am at work!

That is pretty exciting. What size system are you considering? Are you looking at electric or propane/natural gas? RIMS or HERMS? Do you already have a kegerator you're happy with? What about fermentation?

If it were me, I would budget money for a nice brew system but also budget for a conical or two. A nice conical can help improve your brewing as much as an automated system.

Yeah conicals were something I was going to get as well. Im thinking I will only be doing 5 gallon batches but with the capacity to do a 10 if needed. I really like B3's temp controlled conicals. But they are pricey.

As an owner of a B3 Tippy Dump and Heated/Cooled Conical I have nothing but great things to say about the quality/ease of their products. The wait times certainly aren't enjoyable, but for both of my big orders they always shipped ahead of schedule.

wedge421 said:

Im looking to spend around $6,000 on the system. So... with that what setup would you guys recommend. Ive been really eying up the Morebeer single tier setup but the 13 week wait time sucks.

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Man....for a $6k investment I, for one, would absolutely not let the wait time be a determining factor. Get the system you want...13 weeks will suck to wait...but it will be a life long investment. Once you have it, those 13 weeks wont matter at all. If you buy something you don't like as much but is available today you'll spend the next 10 years thinking about the one you really wanted.

amen

Yah this is a very good point. Ive waited this long whats another few weeks. And thing you dont like about the tippy setup mullins?

+1...I'd go with a 1550. Then instead of a conical, spend the money on creating a dedicated brew space. Conicals are nice, but really unnecessary....for the money you'd spend, you could get a nice kegerator, lots of cornies, etc. etc.

Scuba so you would recommend just fermenting in carboys or buckets or whatever in a dedicated kegerator?

Yup. Conicals are awesome, but they're only useful if you harvest yeast. Transferring under pressure is nice, but you can do that in cornies or sankes. The temp control is very expensive for a conical; much easier to put smaller fermenters in a chest freezer, etc. Especially since you think you'll stay at the 5-10 gal batch size.

I say put your money in your brew system as well as your fermentation temp control (dedicated ferm fridge or chamber) and stay flexible with the type of fermenter. Buckets work very well, and if you prefer something else, it's really peanuts with the type of budget you have.

Do you own your house? Really, with this kind of budget, there's no reason for you to not go with an electric system. Brewmation is also another option...it's about the only electric system on the market (since you don't want to diy) and very reasonably priced.

Yeah I have looked at the brewmation setup and really liked it. Im just concerned about the support I would/would not get if I needed it. I know with More Beer they guarantee the product where as brewmation is more of a mom and pop operation. But yes I do own the house and have already run a 220 line to my garage where I brew.

strat_thru_marshall said:

Man....for a $6k investment I, for one, would absolutely not let the wait time be a determining factor. Get the system you want...13 weeks will suck to wait...but it will be a life long investment. Once you have it, those 13 weeks wont matter at all. If you buy something you don't like as much but is available today you'll spend the next 10 years thinking about the one you really wanted.

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I have to agree with Marshall on this one. Consider carefully and get what you want. Don't be dissuaded by the wait time. If I were you, I would definitely be looking at the Brew Magic system and the B3 systems. I sure like the level of automation that the Brew Magic system offers, but I must admit I'm a bit nervous about how easy it would be to clean all that hard plumbing. Thus I also look lustily at the B3 systems. I haven't looked into it in depth though, so in doing your research you may find that I'm worried about nothing, and that cleaning a Brew Magic is no big deal.

I also agree with those that have suggested that you budget for some sort of temperature controlled fermentation. I have one of the B3 conicals with temperature control, and I absolutely love it. But there's no getting around the fact that it's expensive. And since it's my only form of temperature control it means that most of the time I can only have one batch in fermentation at a time. (I do have some buckets and carboys for use when the weather cooperates.) I'm not saying you should definitely get a conical. But definitely plan to have some sort of temperature control for your fermentation. It really does make a significant difference in your finished product.

Have fun with your research, and let us know (with pics, if possible) what you wind up buying.

Brian

wedge421 said:

Yah this is a very good point. Ive waited this long whats another few weeks. And thing you dont like about the tippy setup mullins?

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I absolutely love mine. The build quality is terrific. I made the jump from 5g extract to 10g on the B3 so it is definitely a much longer brew day but the system works great. Only thing I still need to improve upon is my wort chilling as my tap water takes some time to get it down.

Mashing/Sparging is very simple with the All Digital system. The pump handles recirculation through the whole mash, and the Ranco controllers keep the sparge water right at the correct temp, while the pump makes sure the right amount of water is on top of the mash.

I will say this....MoreBeer needs to step it up in terms of automation. Ranco's are great for controlling fridges, but for the money spent I think it's kinda weak to say that it's an "all-digital" brew system. The Ranco's do their job, so I guess the KISS method prevails, but I think it would be really neat if they partnered with ECCSYND and offered the BCS-460/2 on the system. It's just kind of offputting to see 2 fridge controllers flush mounted into a stainless panel.

wedge421 said:

The Sabco looks good as well but I have heard they have issues with maintaining mash temps on the new RIMS setup they use.

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That is actually a fallacy. The problem with maintaining mash temperature, and this is true with all RIMS, is the adjustment of flow while recirculating.

You mention that you are looking for "Full Blown" automation. Neither the Sabco Brew Magic or the B3 systems offer "Full Blown" automation. If you are looking at full blown automation I would have a look at the brewery below. It can brew just shy of 10 gallons, can be operated "fully automated" or custom brew and can self clean. It is electric so you can brew indoors during the winter. The price is $3500.

http://www.livingbeer.com/Beer-Detail.aspx?pvguid=b14bb06c-b96e-4f66-9765-a0b78975bc94

Other option is to get a TopTier stand and then get the HighGravityBrew 'electric brewery.' Far cheaper than the standard eHERMS setups and you can have the whole thing in a week or so.

I bought the eHERMS setup last year from HighGravity along with a TopTier from RebelBrewer, and I'm thrilled. Total cost was around $2.5k for the whole thing -- including Blichmann 15 gallon pots for HLT, MLT, and BK and two Ranco temp controllers and two March 809s. Then it was another $500 to get a 220V outlet installed outside to run the twin 5500W elements in the HLT and BK. The elements heat the water up pretty quickly, and keep at a furious rolling boil (that's totally adjustable).

I got the gear in a week, took another week to get the electrician to install the GFI outlet, and I was brewing by the third week. No problems whatsoever, lots of room for customization, and 100% electric. Only thing I wish I'd done was get a Blichmann 20 gallon for the BK so I could do ten gallon batches. I plan to upgrade at some point this summer.

BTW-- not "full blown" automation, but it's automatic enough so that I set the mash temp and forget about it. THe Ranco at the HX-out keeps it rock solid temp-wise, and it's 100% repeatable temp-wise. Made 26 batches last summer with the system, and I absolutely love it. I just pulled it out of the garage today (Chicago winter, ugh) and I'm ready to start brewing this week.

Using the TopTier means I can use one pump for recirc'ing the water in the HLT to keep the temp rock solid, use the other pump to recirc the wort through the HERMS during the mash, then gravity fly-sparge the wort from the MLT into the BK. Plus, you're not locked into any "system" -- brew magic, brewmation, whatever. You can get easy replacements for everything at either HOme Depot or McMaster Carr.

We need to stop using the term "full blown" and then talking prices. I am seriously tempted to start making off-color jokes.

The top tier and blichman kettles, plus a bremation panel, would actually be my ideal. A more beer stand would be more asteticaly pleasing, but less flexible. This way you could do different sparge setups, and move things around to your liking, and also probably get it a little faster. I'm not really sure about the full brewmation setups and doing 5 gallon batches, but their control panel kits look top notch to do whatever size batch you want. I'd also get two regular conicals from more beer and try to find a 2 glass door commercial fridge that would fit them both side by side.

Yeah I looked into getting the Top Tier setup from Blichmann but decided to go with a full blown setup. Although getting the Top Tier with the High Gravity setup is def a consideration. I didnt want to get just a brewmation control panel because that would require me to build all of the other components which I did not want to get into. Does the brewmation system not do 5 gallon batches? If not that is a deal breaker