Obnoxious Football Trash Talk Thread

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It's a nice trade by Seattle but they certainly didn't get Harvin on the cheap. If he misses 7 games like he did last season the Vikings will be getting the better on this deal.
 
Cape Brewing said:
Blah blah blah... Know who else talks a big game in the off-season?

The Jets.

Hows that worked out?
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They signed a 35 year old quarterback who was last seen on HBO being cut by the dolphins, and then before that the Jaguars. He's also trying to overcome knee and back surgery.

Yeah, we all know this season is going to be bad. Very, very bad. I expect Ryan to be fired and justifiably so. The only good thing we have going is that once Tebow is off the roster we'll no longer be relevant.
 
Cape Brewing said:
And just for the record, the Pats are currently sitting on $25mm of cap space. They harnt even started making moves and they're favored.
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And yet, the Pats are willing to play chicken with arguably the key offensive player on their roster not named Brady. It's insulting that Welker could end up making less than Gronkowski/Hernandez given his body of work. I realize the Pats think they can coach anyone up to fill the slot role, but that's a sign of Belichick's arrogance rather than reality.
 
Harvin's migraines were diagnosed by Mayo Clinic as a lack of sunlight generated Vitamin D.
 
Darwin18 said:
And yet, the Pats are willing to play chicken with arguably the key offensive player on their roster not named Brady. It's insulting that Welker could end up making less than Gronkowski/Hernandez given his body of work. I realize the Pats think they can coach anyone up to fill the slot role, but that's a sign of Belichick's arrogance rather than reality.
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Wow. That is a huge pile of dumb.

I always love the, "that's Belichick being arrogant! I know better than he does and he is making the wrong move out of arrogance!" I can't help but laugh at the irony.

The guy has been awesome... But the Pats have a system within which they will only pay certain amounts for certain positions and if Welker is gonna be too expensive, he won't be here. I'm not concerned.
 
Sherman and Harvin should be roomies in camp this year. That way they can figure out who is the best at life.
 
Larry Fitzgerald. Not sure if I understand why he still wants to remain there. The $ or the weather. Such a waste....
 
Cape Brewing said:
Wow. That is a huge pile of dumb.

I always love the, "that's Belichick being arrogant! I know better than he does and he is making the wrong move out of arrogance!" I can't help but laugh at the irony.

The guy has been awesome... But the Pats have a system within which they will only pay certain amounts for certain positions and if Welker is gonna be too expensive, he won't be here. I'm not concerned.
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Belichick has a track record with the Pats of trading away or letting skilled players go with the assumption that he can just replace them. You can't seriously tell me that letting Asante Samuel walk didn't set the Pats secondary back (they're still trying to overcome this) or trading Richard Seymour didn't set the Pats pass rush back until just recently.

Since coming to the Pats in 2007, Welker has had 100+ receptions and 1,000+ yard seasons every year except 2010. The man has been clearly the #1 receiver for the Pats every year he has been with the team. You cannot just find someone off the street to replace that. I know Pats fans think Welker is replaceable, but the idea that Danny Amendola could be signed for a $1-2 million less in yearly salary and put up those number is laughable.
 
Darwin18 said:
Belichick has a track record with the Pats of trading away or letting skilled players go with the assumption that he can just replace them. You can't seriously tell me that letting Asante Samuel walk didn't set the Pats secondary back (they're still trying to overcome this) or trading Richard Seymour didn't set the Pats pass rush back until just recently.

Since coming to the Pats in 2007, Welker has had 100+ receptions and 1,000+ yard seasons every year except 2010. The man has been clearly the #1 receiver for the Pats every year he has been with the team. You cannot just find someone off the street to replace that. I know Pats fans think Welker is replaceable, but the idea that Danny Amendola could be signed for a $1-2 million less in yearly salary and put up those number is laughable.
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Actually... Belichick has a "track record" of being one of the most successful head coaches in the history of the game and you sitting there pretending that you know better than he does when it comes to the players he watches all day every day and how they fit into HIS system... is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard.

And yes, you're dead on... GOD, it's been brutal since they let Samuel and Seymore go... take '08 out because 1) Brady was out and 2) Seymour was still on the team but then it was four straight Division titles, 2 AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl appearance.

DAMN THAT BELICHICK!!! Driving this team right into the ground by letting Richard Seymour go!! SONOFA!!!!

Looking back and saying, "Oh Belichick (or ANY coach) is stupid because he didn't sign X,Y,Z!" is the epitome of stupid since you have ZERO clue what the contract details were and what the ramifications of those contracts would have been for the rest of the team.

for Seymour... he was going to be paid as one of the top D-linemen in the entire league (as he should of)... and quick trivia question for you... who was he playing right next to?? Before you look it up... it was Vince Wilfork. So which one should stupid Belichick have kept? Or do you think he should have maxed out two D-linemen contracts and then not have anything to spread around to other positions??

I dunno... I think Vince Wilfork is pretty decent.
 
Darwin18 said:
Since coming to the Pats in 2007, Welker has had 100+ receptions and 1,000+ yard seasons every year except 2010. The man has been clearly the #1 receiver for the Pats every year he has been with the team. You cannot just find someone off the street to replace that. I know Pats fans think Welker is replaceable, but the idea that Danny Amendola could be signed for a $1-2 million less in yearly salary and put up those number is laughable.
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whoopidity fcking doo... Welker has been awesome. ZERO debate there but he HAS been awesome. What is he going to do for the next two-three years? He is a slot receiver on a team that now has two of the best tight ends in the league.... who all play in the slot. The reason Welker's numbers are so high in catches and yards is that the Pats have absolutely NO ONE on the outside and haven't since Moss. If the Pats can get even one serious threat on the outside (and Lloyd's not that guy), then Welker's numbers are going to take a beating.

So... what should the Pats do? Pay a guy who has been awesome, totally admit that, to play a position they are "overstocked" on right now when they have such huge needs somewhere else?? The Pats don't need the best slot receiver in the game. They need a decent one and at least one outside threat given the tight ends.

If they can get Welker at a price that makes sense... and allows them to still do the things they NEED to do... absolutely... sign him TODAY but if he is looking for huge top dollar (don't blame him at all if he is)... thanks for coming Wes. We appreciate all you've done and good luck with your new team.

... and your whole "Amendola for less money to replace those numbers blah blah blah" is retarded. They aren't looking to "replace those numbers" on a one-for-one basis. That's not how team sports with that whole salary cap thing work. Let me ask it this way... do you pay Wes Welker $9mm per year or Danny Amendola and Greg Jennings $10mm between the two of them?

If I'm the Pats.... I'm taking Amendola and Jennings in a heart beat.
 
I totally agree that Hernandez and Gronk are amazing, dynamic tight ends that can and should be the focal points of the Pats' offense. However, they both have had injury problems and rarely have been on the field together. Gronkowski is a beast, there is no denying that but he and Hernandez play a very physically demanding position. When either player has been down, the Pats have turned time and again to Welker to carry the load for the offense. I don't think you can deny that Welker and Brady have an unique connection that is replaceable.

Amendola has also had injury problems and I would be concerned that the Rams didn't make a serious attempt to retain him. Jennings is also a very talented outside receiver that would be dynamic with the Pats, however he has also had injury problems. I think both players are good, but are not slam dunk options to replace Welker.

If I'm Welker, I would test the market and see what my value is. A team like the Chiefs that are going to utilize the West Coast offense with a very accurate (albeit recently) Alex Smith would be an intriguing option. I believe the Chiefs have the cap room to land Welker, although I could be wrong on this. They also have a very talented offense that he would be transition to well.
 
Darwin18 said:
I totally agree that Hernandez and Gronk are amazing, dynamic tight ends that can and should be the focal points of the Pats' offense. However, they both have had injury problems and rarely have been on the field together. Gronkowski is a beast, there is no denying that but he and Hernandez play a very physically demanding position. When either player has been down, the Pats have turned time and again to Welker to carry the load for the offense. I don't think you can deny that Welker and Brady have an unique connection that is replaceable.

Amendola has also had injury problems and I would be concerned that the Rams didn't make a serious attempt to retain him. Jennings is also a very talented outside receiver that would be dynamic with the Pats, however he has also had injury problems. I think both players are good, but are not slam dunk options to replace Welker.

If I'm Welker, I would test the market and see what my value is. A team like the Chiefs that are going to utilize the West Coast offense with a very accurate (albeit recently) Alex Smith would be an intriguing option. I believe the Chiefs have the cap room to land Welker, although I could be wrong on this. They also have a very talented offense that he would be transition to well.
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... and Welker blew out an ACL two year ago...

You're talking about Welker like he's Jerry Rice only better because he has a super mega mind-meld with Brady. The guy is REALLY good. but he is REALLY good at a position that the Pats don't need someone REALLY good for.

You keep saying the Pats need to "replace" him... why?? The Pats are the only team in NFL history to score over 500 points five times. Know how many SB wins they have for those five seasons? Zero. The last five out of six SB winners didn't even score 400 points in a season.

So if the Pats don't "replace" Welker... what are they gonna do? Only score 450 points?? ok. Is that BAD? When they can take that $9mm per year and put it to work on the defense... or on a true outside thread and a decent underneath guy?
 
Cape Brewing said:
You keep saying the Pats need to "replace" him... why?? The Pats are the only team in NFL history to score over 500 points five times. Know how many SB wins they have for those five seasons? Zero. The last five out of six SB winners didn't even score 400 points in a season.
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When your defense is ranked 25th in the league you need your offense to score 500 points a season to get you deep in the postseason.
 
Darwin18 said:
When your defense is ranked 25th in the league you need your offense to score 500 points a season to get you deep in the postseason.
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Or... OR... maybe this is a crazy idea... but... MAYBE you upgrade the D.


Like I asked before...

Would you take Welker for $9mm or Amendola and Jennings for $10mm?
 
Cape Brewing said:
Or... OR... maybe this is a crazy idea... but... MAYBE you upgrade the D.


Like I asked before...

Would you take Welker for $9mm or Amendola and Jennings for $10mm?
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If it is strictly a budgetary decision AND you could really get both Amendola and Jennings for $10 million, than obviously the answer is Amendola and Jennings. I doubt that you would be able to get both for the same cost or less than Welker as Jennings will likely command a contract not far from what Welker is asking for. Jennings, when healthy, is a #1 receiver, no doubt. Amendola is an intriguing player but I'm not 100% sold on him as a credible replacement for Welker.

Upgrading the defense is going to be difficult with the cap room if the Pats sign Jennings/Amendola and Talib. Those three players will likely command the bulk of the available cap space so any improvements on defense will need to come through the draft.
 
So, ESPN.com has the voting bracket up for the next Madden cover again. This time around they've got half Old School players and half New School players. It's a lot of fun - on the old school players, I'm voting for the guys I have fond memories of (Bruschi all the way man, even though I'm sure he won't make it past round 1 or 2, sadly). But with the New School guys, I'm totally voting for who I want to give the Madden curse to (I really hope Megatron didn't go and eff that up this year for good). I especially enjoyed voting the curse onto Russel Wilson and every non-Patriot AFC East player. If only Bernard Pollard could've been on the list too...

And dammit Gronk, if you start campaigning for the cover again this year, I hope the whole damn team slaps you upside the head. Your injuries are bad enough without a damn Madden curse to worry about.
 
Darwin18 said:
If it is strictly a budgetary decision AND you could really get both Amendola and Jennings for $10 million, than obviously the answer is Amendola and Jennings. I doubt that you would be able to get both for the same cost or less than Welker as Jennings will likely command a contract not far from what Welker is asking for. Jennings, when healthy, is a #1 receiver, no doubt. Amendola is an intriguing player but I'm not 100% sold on him as a credible replacement for Welker.

Upgrading the defense is going to be difficult with the cap room if the Pats sign Jennings/Amendola and Talib. Those three players will likely command the bulk of the available cap space so any improvements on defense will need to come through the draft.
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Forget Amendola and Jennings... I was simply making a point with two available guys. The point is, and continues to be, the Pats value specific positions at specific dollars given how they're going to run the team... and right now, Welker's numbers MIGHT be more than they are willing to pay for that part of their team. It all depends on what else is available across all of the other positions, at what cost and how they would all utlimately fit into the overall game plan and salary cap... two things me, you and anyone else on the Homebrewtalk football talk thread know anything about so claiming "belichick is arrogant" because he hasn't signed Welker is stupid.... especially when by simply saying that, you're claiming to know what is better for his team than one of the most successful coaches in league history.... cuz... that seems to strike me as a lot more arrogant.

Simply saying "Welker has X catches and Y yards" misses about 95% of the point... ok... what are those catches and yards actually worth in terms of winning? Do they really need to be replaced? If they are, what should that cost under different offensive game plan styles? Are the Pats going to continue being a bit of a dink-and-dunk team or are they going to try to stretch the field with two fast wideouts and let Gronk and Hernandez eat up the slot? What about defense? Would the Pats win more games if they spent $9mm entirely on defense? Or split it between offense and defense? All offense??

My theory is that you have no idea (none of us do) what the answers are to any of those questions and until any of us have the level of understanding that Belichick (or any GM) has, it's tough to sit here and pass judgement... especially when you're talking about one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game.
 
If we can't discuss/critique the decisions and roster moves of respective teams because none of us are professional GMs or coaches then what is the point of this thread?

I don't think anyone is saying that Belichick isn't a great coach. He's a Hall of Fame coach. However, Belichick does have a history of devaluing impact players (Samuel and Seymour for example) with the assumption that he could either replace them with a cost-effective free agent or draft a replacement and coach them up to that level. That is pretty arrogant IMO. However the Pats have enjoyed a level of success that most teams would dream of so while I'm critiquing Belichick for being arrogant, I am not saying that he is a fat, loud, obnoxious, foot-fetish obsessed, attention grabbing coach who doesn't know 25% of what is going on with his team like a certain coach down south of I-95. ;)
 
I've started Brady as my fantasy qb for the previous two years. The first year I didn't learn. The second year, if Welker was suspect I benched him. The result is I won my league as a result easily as he had a total of one mediocre game when the Welker thing wasn't an issue. Good games with Welker actually being questionable last year? 0. 0 games. Welker is the man's security blanket. Don't get me wrong, I believe they'll do ok without him but I seriously doubt they'll do as well and they'll drop out of my top 5 for most likely to win the Super Bowl next year without question without him. Plus, let's face it... With their other woes... Their defense is gawd awful.
 
I think the Jets first move should be getting rid of their best player. SARCASTIC

Oh wait....that's exactly what they're doing. Yikes
 
HoppyDaze said:
I think the Jets first move should be getting rid of their best player. SARCASTIC

Oh wait....that's exactly what they're doing. Yikes
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No worries, David Garrard is the answer to our problems!

Also - are the Ravens insane for trading Boldin to the 49-ers? Who exactly is currently to be catching passes from the highest paid QB in the league now?
 
Well according to most people in this thread, Baltimore has an excellent WR core, including Torrey Holt. ;)

I think Boldin got hot and it's not representative of his current talent level. He's a big, physical receiver who is a perfect fit for SF (damn-it)
 
Darwin18 said:
I don't think anyone is saying that Belichick isn't a great coach. He's a Hall of Fame coach. However, Belichick does have a history of devaluing impact players (Samuel and Seymour for example) with the assumption that he could either replace them with a cost-effective free agent or draft a replacement and coach them up to that level.
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... and I think that entire concept is a load of crack-head induced a$$ vomit.

The guy decided not to spend X amoutn of money on a player and instead decided to spend that money on other parts of the team. Out of that you're getting "he so arrogant he thinks he can use his amazing power to create a new guy for cheaper".

for the 22nd time... it's not about REPLACING THAT guy.

If Richard Seymour is rated a 100 on a scale of 1 to 100 with 100 being the best at his position... the question is... "Will the Patriots win more games with ONE player rated 100 or two players, at different positions, rated 85 each?"

So whether Richard Seymour's "replacement" is AS GOOD as he is is almost irrelevant... it is a question of... is the replacement GOOD ENOUGH... ALONG with whatever else I can get for that money, to justify making the move?

Belichick wasn't going to pay Wilfork AND Seymour huge money. He wasn't going to spend that much money on just two players. He chose Wilfork.

I don't see how that translates into "Belichick is so arrogant because he assumed he could coach up some no name to be as good as Seymour". Belichick has a price tag for his entire D-line in his head and he is going to put together what he thinks is the most effective LINE, not player, LINE that he can for that price tag.

He has a price tag for what he thinks wide receivers are worth to a team. If Welker is going to blow that price tag... he is overpriced FOR THE PATS... and Belichick will let him walk.

Maybe if more teams were smart like that and didn't overpay for guys... cough... cough... Sanchez... cough cough... The Pats wouldn't have as much success as they've had.
 
ok... I think I have a way of explaining this to you simpletons.

Let's pretend that we're going to have a cooking contest. Five of you fcktards are competing to see who can make the best meat lasagne... winner gets to tag Moto's mom.

It HAS to be LASAGNE... meaning, pasta, sauce, and at least two different kinds of meat. If it isn't lasagne with those ingredients, you are disqualified.

I give each of you a crisp $20 bill.

Are you going to buy decent hamburger for $4 or filet mignon for $20?

By your argument Darwin... you're saying "Belichick is an a-hole because he thinks he can make $4 hamburger into $20 filet mignon!". But he's not making a steak dinner... he needs to make lasagne.
 
HoppyDaze said:
I think Boldin got hot and it's not representative of his current talent level. He's a big, physical receiver who is a perfect fit for SF (damn-it)
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Agreed. So long as he is healthy, he is a nice addition for SF. Boldin is a physically tough, maybe slightly crazy receiver who is going to bring those qualities to an offense that might be lacking them (I'm looking at you, Crabtree). He is a nice upgrade from the lack of production that Moss provided last year and is better in my opinion than Manningham.

If Richard Seymour is rated a 100 on a scale of 1 to 100 with 100 being the best at his position... the question is... "Will the Patriots win more games with ONE player rated 100 or two players, at different positions, rated 85 each?"

So whether Richard Seymour's "replacement" is AS GOOD as he is is almost irrelevant... it is a question of... is the replacement GOOD ENOUGH... ALONG with whatever else I can get for that money, to justify making the move?

Belichick wasn't going to pay Wilfork AND Seymour huge money. He wasn't going to spend that much money on just two players. He chose Wilfork.

I don't see how that translates into "Belichick is so arrogant because he assumed he could coach up some no name to be as good as Seymour". Belichick has a price tag for his entire D-line in his head and he is going to put together what he thinks is the most effective LINE, not player, LINE that he can for that price tag.
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Pats' League Defensive Rankings:

2012 - 25th overall
2011 - 31st overall
2010 - 25th overall
2009 - 11th overall

Good for Belichick for sticking to an arbitrary dollar value. The results of that are that his defense has been atrocious for the last three years and his teams have only made it deep into the post-season because their offensive was so great. Would keeping Assante Samuel or Richard Seymour have made a significant difference? Maybe, maybe not. Trading away or letting your skilled players walk and replacing them with schlubs and assuming that you'll be fine isn't the best way to build a team. Obviously Belichick let them go because he was of the opinion that he could draft cheap defensive replacements and coach them up - that has largely been a failure, although recent picks are showing a great deal of promise, especially on the defensive line.

Maybe if more teams were smart like that and didn't overpay for guys... cough... cough... Sanchez... cough cough... The Pats wouldn't have as much success as they've had.
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I won't argue with you on that one. The Sanchez extension is just completely inexcusable and is sadly not uncommon for the Jets.
 
Darwin18 said:
. Obviously Belichick let them go because he was of the opinion that he could draft cheap defensive replacements and coach them up -.
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WHOA WHOA...

ok...

I see the issue...

I didn't realize you were THE one and only TRUE person on the planet that could actually read minds. My bad and I apologize. You apparently know exactly what is going through Bill Belichick's mind to the point it is "obvious"... well... SHT... color me embarrassed. I didn't realize that was possible other than in the movies but there we have it! An actual mindreader!

How do you do it?? Do you have to look a picture of Belichick to know every detail of what he is thinking or do you... like... magically teleport into his body??

I gotta know... cuz, seriously... this is amazing.

Can you do it for everyone?!?!?

OMG!!! What am I thinking RIGHT now!?!?!
 
.. and just for the record... I'm not saying Belichick is effin RIGHT every time.... I am just saying the claim of "he just makes those trades because he is so arrogant he thinks he can make a pro-bowler out of a pile of sht" is retarded. He has a system and over the life of his career... it's worked out pretty well. Yes, the D hasn't been that good... while the Offfense has been the most explosive in the history of the game... so I'm not sure what your cool D stats really mean in the grander scheme of things.

(can we say "retarded" on this thread?? I think so)
 

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