the greatness of no secondary

My work schedule has been crazy and has forced me to stop transfering to a secondary. Best thing that has ever happened! My last three batches have come out crystal clear, great taste and fantastic. So if you are transfering still I would suggest to stop. These have been my best beers to date

Not too many people secondary with any regularity any more. I only secondary beers that are > 1095-ish or if I am adding oak/fruit, etc. 3-5 weeks on the primary yeast cake is fine

Nice to see someone else finally "seeing the light" here... :rockin:

I brew/ferment at a friends place since my LL went neurotic on me. So, due to his schedule, and family things, I typically go more than a month in primary (often in the 5-8 week range) before going to bottle/keg... Been getting GREAT beers this way. It also helps that we both ferment in his basement, which is a pretty stable 64-65F year round.

BTW, if you're not kegging yet, just wait until you do...

Other things that give you facepalm for not doing before:
Dry hopping in primary
Using a plate chiller instead of an IC.
Ball valves in the kettles (or almost everywhere).
Fermenting in SS vessels (I'm using kegs).
Using a stir plate to make your starters (EPIC!).
Using pure O2 to oxygenate your wort (another EPIC! item)...

I'm sure there's more but those come to mind quickly, and often...

Newbies learn from this
Leave 3 weeks minimum and no secondary. One less thing to stress over.

That's where I'm at. I have a dry irish stout celebrating a birthday today (it's two weeks old!) and instead of racking it to secondary, I'm just going to leave it be for another two weeks in primary before bottling. I'll probably pry open the bucket in the middle of next week to take a gravity/tasting sample. It's only my second batch ever, but I've learned so much over the last few months just reading forums and watching the many helpful videos on youtube.

KISS!!!! i was forced into this realization simply because i don't have a secondary vessel and am too lazy/poor to go and get one. not once have i ever regretted it...although i'm wondering about fruit beers...

I've used a secondary fermentor only once in almost two years of brewing. It was the worst beer I have made so far. Coincidence?

NRS

I don't bother unless I'm racking it on to something. Great lesson in life "make no more work than is neccessary." I agree with the three week minimum rule as well.

I second the no secondary

Sometimes I even add late-addition ingredients to the primary once fermentation has stopped. I do like to transfer if I am dry hopping though. Something about yeast and dry hops never tastes right to me.

Golddiggie said:

I brew/ferment at a friends place since my LL went neurotic on me.

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I saw you mention this in another thread. Can your LL really tell you that you can't brew? You might want to look into the legalities of that.

When it comes to secondary fermentation, there is some who swear by their benefits - time for beer to clear up, reduce risk of autolysis.

I have been brewing for 4 years and never did a secondary because of the hassle required. I don't really see the point though unless one is lagering for a month. To lager in kegs is still viable but lagering in bottles is a damn hassle and it affects the carbonation as well (cos the yeast just don't ferment at lagering temperatures).

I would say, for ales, bottle conditioning would do fine. but if you really need to lager or add fruit and other additives, consider a secondary.

I agree with many on here. I stopped racking to secondary unless I am working with fruit or a very high original gravity. I find that the longer primary really allows yeast to clean up after itself.

Do you guys use a plastic bucket, a glass carboy, or better bottle for primary (or something else)?

I use a HDPE plastic fermenter as the primary. Those that comes with a standard beer kit.

lestershy said:

Do you guys use a plastic bucket, a glass carboy, or better bottle for primary (or something else)?

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All of the above, it doesn't matter......

So... for all these Northern Brewer kits that specify 2-stage fermentation, it's not actually needed? No downside to it at all? That would be SUPER to hear... it makes the difference of me then possibly being able to have up to 3 batches fermenting at once...

superslomo said:

So... for all these Northern Brewer kits that specify 2-stage fermentation, it's not actually needed?

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IMO this is the case. I dry hop in primary all the time and see virtually no need for a secondary unless oaking or racking onto fruit. For my big beers I primary and then bottle or keg condition instead of a secondary.

When I started brewing, the kit I got didn't have a seconday fermenter. After seeing the results of my first couple beers I questioned Secondary all together. When the time came for my first dry hop, I was feeling a little lazy and didn't bother with a Secondary either. Again, I liked the results.

My friend that got me into brewing has used a Secondary from day one and told me it would be better if I did. He doesn't buy into the quick onset of autolysis myth, but feels it helps with the clearing process and flavor.

When I gave him a bottle of my first beer he was surprised to see how clear it was! Of course, I've never been able to convince him not to Secondary. I've even shown him discussions on here (he's not a forum member) and the BYO experiment regarding Secondary vs. long Primary: he just doesn't want to hear it. He likes his beer the way he makes it (it's good) but clearly sees and tastes my great results.

I guess if it works, don't fix it?
To me, it just seems like so much extra work for nothing...

So much extra work? You just siphon beer from one carboy to another. Not too difficult.

I bottled my pecan porter this weekend. 6 weeks in primary at 67f. He sample was awesome! Unless dry hopping or adding fruit, wood, etc...i dont secondary anymore. And i finally am starting to learn the patience for long primaries. So much better beer!

kehaar said:

So much extra work? You just siphon beer from one carboy to another. Not too difficult.

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I don't like having to deal with washing, sanitizing, racking etc. It doesn't seem like much, but it's another couple of hours I don't really have easily in my schedule to do something that may be entirely unnecessary... If I can make it so that I spend one or two weekend days a month doing all the work (throw everything I can into primary, then everything into bottles around the same time) it's a lot more manageable for me, personally.

Kehaar, increased risk of contamination is another reason to not rack unless necessary.

For additional work.
Lift primaru to siphon position (elevated).
Sanitize new vessel and all siphon equipment plus new bung and airlock. Keep them sanitary too
Siphon batch from primary to other vessel.
Hope that you maintained good sanitation and didn't introduce oxygen to brew.

I don't rack when dry hopping. IMO/IME I get great, clear, brews evej dry hopped by not racking. I also eaily collect the brew from primary, even with dry hops in there. I use whole hops to dry hop, with no bag. I have a batch in primary now that will get 1.5oz of whole hops for a week. Once the batch is actually ready to bottle, I'll dry hop. Seven days later, keg/bottle the batch and its good to carb up.

So here's a question that I don't think has been answered:
Why do so many of you only secondary when dry hopping, oaking, adding fruit, etc.?

It sounds like some will dry hop in primary but why not the other options?

drocu said:

So here's a question that I don't think has been answered:
Why do so many of you only secondary when dry hopping, oaking, adding fruit, etc.?

It sounds like some will dry hop in primary but why not the other options?

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For me, I wash my yeast so I get at least 6 mason jars of yeast with each batch. I don't want the extra hops from dryhopping to get in the yeast I harvest!

drocu said:

So here's a question that I don't think has been answered:
Why do so many of you only secondary when dry hopping, oaking, adding fruit, etc.?

It sounds like some will dry hop in primary but why not the other options?

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For heavy items, like oak cubes, spirals, staves, pieces of fruit, or when adding more than a tiny amount of liquid, you introduce less oxygen if you rack onto the item than adding it into primary. IF you can gently add the item to the brew, then you could do it in primary too. Whole hops, IMO, are so light that you'll not get any, or enough, oxygen introduced with them to do any harm.

I will let a brew finish before I add other flavor elements to it. IF I have it on one element (in primary, or another vessel) and I need/want to halt that flavor contribution before adding another, I'll rack. Otherwise, everyone goes into the pool. :rockin:

I've added preliminary additional flavor elements into primary before. I've then racked off of them when I've felt the flavor is where I've wanted it, into another vessel so that I could introduce another element. I've not yet decided if I'll rack any of the brews I'll be oaking in the future. It really depends on if I'm using cubes, spirals, or staves to oak. If something I can gently lower into primary, I probably will do that. Although, I suppose it's better to not have the oak resting in the yeast cake. Especially if I plan to use it for another batch (spirals or staves, not cubes and chips)...

If you're trying to figure out when to rack for additional elements brew a recipe, ferment half each way. Rack one as the old mentality would have you do, and the other as more conventional wisdom is saying. Bottle at the same time (or keg) and try them side by side. I'd wager that if they're not identical, then the long primary batch will be better...

IMO, the less times you touch the brew, once you pitch the yeast, the better the result... Eventually you'll learn when certain OG range brews will be ready for the next step. You just need to brew enough batches to get that knowledge. Sounds like an excellent reason to brew more to me.

Another one here that doesnt use a secondary, I think the last time I did I had accidentally picked up some trube when I was racking to my bottling bucket. Ended up just putting the lid on it and an airlock and filled my bottles about a day later.

Oh and Jamil Z doesnt do secondaries so thats good for me.

If you were doing the Northern Brewer Saison, would you think it needed to go to secondary to round out, or would you still stick with a month primary, or go longer before bottling?

Not sure whether it's too big to be done in primary alone...

I only use my Secondary Carboy as a blowoff tube vessel for my two Primary Buckets.

I've stopped using a secondary as well. I'm relatively new (5 brews, last 2 with no secondary) but I've found my beer isn't as clear without a secondary. Don't get me wrong, it still tastes great and since I'm not submitting to contests or anything I don't really care. But any hints as to how to keep the beer clear without a secondary?

I move my primary to its "high" position the morning I'm going to bottle, allowing it a couple hours to settle from the small amount of stirring up that happens when I move it 15 feet. I try to leave enough beer so as to not suck up much, if any, trub while racking. Any other hints? I've though about letting the beer sit in my bottling bucket for another hour or two before bottling to let the small amount of crap in there settle, but I wasn't thrilled wit that idea.

bds3, how long are you letting the brew stay in primary.

Personally, I've been simply letting all brews stay in primary for at least a full month before bottling them. Every one has been super clear as a result.

I think clarity level also has a good amount to do with the recipe. You could also move the brew to the racking location the day before (or a few days before) you rack to the bottling bucket. I would also stop the siphon before you start picking up the trub. I also wouldn't let the brew stay too long in the bucket before you go to bottle the batch. I prefer to have the bottling bucket empty within an hour of the transfer.

Are you pouring the priming solution into the bottom of the bottling bucket getting a good whirlpool going for the transfer to get it mixed fully?

Me too. I've only done one batch so far but I don't see a reason for me personally to use the secondary. It turned out so marvelously that we drank almost all of it already in 2.5 weeks And I'm using buckets. I love it

ETA: It was clear in the bottle and got some chill haze. I don't mind a bit.

Here's a question: why do we care about clarity? I guess it looks good, but I also like beer with haze. Gives it that "frosty" look like you just poured it into a frosted mug or something. I guess I only really care about the clarity if it is a beer other than an amber SRM or lighter beer.

Golddiggie said:

bds3, how long are you letting the brew stay in primary.

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3 weeks for one, closer to 3.5 for the other.

Golddiggie said:

Are you pouring the priming solution into the bottom of the bottling bucket getting a good whirlpool going for the transfer to get it mixed fully?

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Yes.

bds3 said:

I've stopped using a secondary as well. I'm relatively new (5 brews, last 2 with no secondary) but I've found my beer isn't as clear without a secondary. Don't get me wrong, it still tastes great and since I'm not submitting to contests or anything I don't really care. But any hints as to how to keep the beer clear without a secondary?

I move my primary to its "high" position the morning I'm going to bottle, allowing it a couple hours to settle from the small amount of stirring up that happens when I move it 15 feet. I try to leave enough beer so as to not suck up much, if any, trub while racking. Any other hints? I've though about letting the beer sit in my bottling bucket for another hour or two before bottling to let the small amount of crap in there settle, but I wasn't thrilled wit that idea.

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I'm relatively new too but can offer a couple of suggestions. You could try clarifying agents like irish moss, Whirlfloc, gelatin, etc. These basically help precipitate and coagulate proteins. Also, try cold crashing your primary for a couple of days before bottling, if you have the equipment.

Also, how quickly are you drinking your beers after bottling? I've found that drinking my beer 1-2 weeks after bottling was very cloudy. Because I've been brewing so much, I can't keep up with my supply and have gone back to some of those beers and found they've cleared up considerably (>4 wks after bottling).

I think you have the right idea letting the beer settle after moving the primary. I let my beer settle for ~1hr before racking to my bottling bucket.

bds3 said:

3 weeks for one, closer to 3.5 for the other.



Yes.

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Let them go at least a month before moving them to the bottling bucket. Also, put the fermenter in racking position at least 12-24 hours ahead of time. If you can go longer than 4 weeks in primary, do it. That extra time will help to get the yeast cake to compact for you, as well as get more yeast to flocculate out.

I use my secondary only for beers I want to bulk age longer than a month. And after reading a ton about it on here, I really only do that b/c my secondary is glass and I don't want to risk cracking it by putting warm wort in it. So I bottle after 3 weeks in primary or rack long-term brews so I can brew more goodness!

Could you guys explain why you leave it in the fermenter for at least a month? Is it just to improve clarity? Are there any draw backs or risks when leaving it in there that long? I am doing my first brew soon, I'm using a Brewer's Best IPA Extract kit and the procedure listed only adds up to about two weeks before bottling, should I let it sit longer?

gwashingk said:

Could you guys explain why you leave it in the fermenter for at least a month? Is it just to improve clarity? Are there any draw backs or risks when leaving it in there that long? I am doing my first brew soon, I'm using a Brewer's Best IPA Extract kit and the procedure listed only adds up to about two weeks before bottling, should I let it sit longer?

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On an average gravity beer, there is absolutely no need for a full month. Any cleaning up the yeast do after fermentation is complete will be done within a few days of reaching stable final gravity.

There is nothing wrong with leaving it on the yeast cake for a month, but I have just never had any benefit from it that I couldn't get by bottling it and aging it that way.

I disagree with this ^^^ the longer i leave my beera in primary, the better they are. I used to leave them 2-3 weeks then bottle. But has improved dramatically after leaving 5-6 weeks. Just my experience.

WildGingerBrewing said:

I disagree with this ^^^ the longer i leave my beera in primary, the better they are. I used to leave them 2-3 weeks then bottle. But has improved dramatically after leaving 5-6 weeks. Just my experience.

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Has nothing else changed at all in your brewing procedure? In general, the more people brew, the better their beer is, because they improve their process, sanitation, timing, chilling, fermenting, etc. Your beers might be getting better simply because you are, not because of extended primary.

Just sayin... Not bashing the primary only thing. I use that method for a lot of beers, but for a nice IPA, I transfer to a secondary before I dry hop so I can use an air stone and rouse everything up with CO2 periodically just like they do at commercial breweries. I feel this extracts the goodness of the hops sooner, so that I only need to dry hop for a few days and eliminate the possibility of getting grassy flavors.