cider not very appley

i recently brewed a batch of cider that turned out pretty neat.. but i was wondering how some ciders turn out to taste more appley. i have done a small hand full of ciders (this last batch turning out the best), but they always tend to turn out really dry and have more of a champagne taste than apple. one theory i have, but wonder if it would alone account for the lack of apple taste is (for budget sake) i use cheap 100% apple juice and cheap apple juice concentrate and cheap honey.

some about my recent batch:

cheapskate woof apple cider..
5 gallons Kroger brand 100% apple juice
5 cans old orchard apple juice concentrate
2 lb Kroger honey
boil 15 min with:
1 tbs bitter orange peel
1 tsp fresh ground coriander
ferment at about 70 degrees with:
hefeweizen yeast (forgot what strain)

og: 1.060
final (pre bottling sugar): 0.996

this stopped bubbling after 10 days and when i tested it all the sugars had fermented. it tasted really nice but it seemed that most of the flavor came from the yeast. if drank before you swirl the yeast into the bottle it tasted like very dry cheap champagne. the yeast made it taste more fruity and floral. i have had nice ciders before that seemed to explode with apple flavor.. ones that do not use fake apple flavor. any suggestions?

I never did one with a Hef yeast, and mine will change flavor as they age. Some are good early (3-4 months) and not so good later, but I have one that just tastes bitter until its a year old and then its an apple delight. I also use the cheap cider and concentrate. Most just need time to age properly. Cheers

You'll need to back sweeten. When fermentation is complete I'll stabilize and then add 2 cans of apple juice concentrate. I little acid blend doesn't hurt either.

to have more of a apple flavor in your ciders you need to halt fermentation before it gets too dry. I like my ciders around 1.008 FG. I usually crash cool them around that point and then transfer off the lees on campden and potassium sorbate to prevent from future fermentation. Then bottle and age it for year, lots more apple flavor and aroma will come forward with some aging.

paraordnance said:

to have more of a apple flavor in your ciders you need to halt fermentation before it gets too dry. I like my ciders around 1.008 FG. I usually crash cool them around that point and then transfer off the lees on campden and potassium sorbate to prevent from future fermentation. Then bottle and age it for year, lots more apple flavor and aroma will come forward with some aging.

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This of course would create still cider, no carbonation.

Still cider definitely is good and has it's place, but should you need carbonation and a sweeter or apple'y taste you'd need to backsweeten with a sugar that can't ferment (ie: splenda, xilotol (spelled that completely wrong I'm sure)).

Or, campden and potassium sorbate to kill everything off as you've said, then throw it in a keg and force carb it if you can.

hmm. aging will help. havent tried that. i drank my ciders very young. are there any other methods anyone can think of?

Do you happen to have a kegging set up? I make 4-5 ciders throughout the year, and the best method to make a Woodchuck/Strongbow type strong cider with lots of apple flavor is backsweetening with juice.

Backsweeting with juice if you bottle is a giant sweaty PITA, but backsweetening with juice in a keg is very, very simple, and produces great hard cider pretty quickly.

If you do have a kegging setup and want instructions on how to backsweeten with juice, let me know!

TopherM said:

If you do have a kegging setup and want instructions on how to backsweeten with juice, let me know!

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TopherM, I'd like to take you up on your offer to the OP.

naw.. no keg yet. just on the bottles. i might try it with the fake sugar. been meaning to find a cheap keg on craigslist though.

Check out the cider recipe in my signature, very appley

Sent from my Galaxy S 4G using Home Brew Talk for Android

hey i like that. i think i may try that next. making an oarmeal coffee stout today. the unfiltered apple juice would be really good but really expensive. i wonder if that is what is going to make a big differance in the apple taste. i might try a small batch and see.

I buy the cider at Walmart, it's about $2.25 a gallon

my last batch of graff cider wasnt very appley either but the last bottle of it i had was almost a year after bottling was amazing. the apple flavor really came back after ageing.

i really like that recipe. i might try it next! so... i was thinking. what if one was to use a yeast that can not tolerate large amounts of alc. give the yeast enough sugars to eat to come close to that level. when the ferment peters off due to excessive amounts of alc, back sweeten to desired sweetness and bottle. if you got it right it may just ferment a little in the bottle. that way you get the appley sweetness and the carbonation without a keg or exploding bottles. any thoughts?? might that work?

nukinfuts29 said:

I buy the cider at Walmart, it's about $2.25 a gallon

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really?? for the unfiltered not from concentrate? i found the reconstituted apple juice at Walmart for that price, but not the good stuff. i just got a couple bottles of the simply brand unfiltered apple juice. going to try one with just that and my hef yeast. another im mixing in lemon juice and fresh ginger juice.

Yea it's near the deli section in the "row coolers" with the fruit and veggies.

what if one was to use a yeast that can not tolerate large amounts of alc. give the yeast enough sugars to eat to come close to that level. when the ferment peters off due to excessive amounts of alc, back sweeten to desired sweetness and bottle. if you got it right it may just ferment a little in the bottle. that way you get the appley sweetness and the carbonation without a keg or exploding bottles. any thoughts?? might that work?

anybody have any input on the above posted high alc content trick? do yeast do anything weird like produce off flavors in the face of high alc levels??

instant_gratification said:

what if one was to use a yeast that can not tolerate large amounts of alc. give the yeast enough sugars to eat to come close to that level. when the ferment peters off due to excessive amounts of alc, back sweeten to desired sweetness and bottle. if you got it right it may just ferment a little in the bottle. that way you get the appley sweetness and the carbonation without a keg or exploding bottles. any thoughts?? might that work?

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I don't think it'll work. I had a theory that the Windsor yeast that I had sitting around would finish higher than the usual wine/champagne yeasts that are used for Apfewein. I only fed it half the recommended sugar and I still finished at 0.997. Around 7.5% ABV if my calcs were correct.

Even Windsor which usually craps out early in beer with complex malt sugars, goes to town on the easy to digest simple sugars of Apfelwein.

Yea I don't see it working, but I would be interested if you pursue the answer.

heh heh. maybe ill give it enough sugars to mae it to 20% or something stupid. well see what those little bastards can take.