Ive tasted some laguanitas lucky 13 and really want to get my hands on some of these hop plants, where can i find them?
Ive tasted some laguanitas lucky 13 and really want to get my hands on some of these hop plants, where can i find them?
Firebat138 said:Seeds... ???? I think you bought something else....
Sure, those seeds *might be viable, but just what, exactly, will they turn into? It's a crap-shoot as to what you'll get.
Hops development takes years (decades) to produce acceptable/desirable results.
Organic material from fresh hops orders on the other hand...
It won't be a Citra thought. Whenever you grow from seed there is variation in the genetic code. All Citra plants are clones (from cutting). While your plants might not exactly be Citra, they will be something you can use to make beer and unique to the plants that you grow.
Those seeds are 99% likely to not be viable. When a plant goes hermaphrodite it is always later in the season, the seeds will be immature. Guaranteed. Maybe soon Citra rhizomes will be on the market, but I think for the time being they are having too much fun selling them to us for 25 bucks a pound.
paulster2626 said:My LHBS had them for $3.99 an ounce. Yeah, thanks bud, but no thanks.
Alright, so who's gonna jump the fence??? Anyone?
Also growers are increasing production of it anyway, they are not blind to the demand and want to supply the brewing world with all the Citra they can handle.
At least this is what I heard on a podcast somewhere.
Do proprietary hops stay protected forever? Or do they run out after a while like how a patent runs out after a certain time.
Good question. Anyone?
Patents and the like are basically meaningless in this case. Hop Breeding Company is a private company, and like say the recipe for Coca-Cola, they're under no obligation to share rhizomes or anything and can protect Citra as long as they want by growing it on only the farms they own/contract.
[...]What year was the Citra patent filed?
happyinsonoma said:Haha... until someone digs up some rhizomes and sells them to his bro or for a beer trade.
Patents and the like are basically meaningless in this case. Hop Breeding Company is a private company, and like say the recipe for Coca-Cola, they're under no obligation to share rhizomes or anything and can protect Citra as long as they want by growing it on only the farms they own/contract.
Yeah but wouldn't they be 99% Citra in all likelyhood?
If a single plant grows both male and female parts and pollenates itself (pretty common, actually), how would the seed have anything genetically different than the parent? (Serious question)
To my simple mind this seems no different than cutting a rhizome.
Maybe he'll end up with a better Citra - call it "Supra"!
The difference is that with a rhizome section, or a bine cutting, you are dealing with mitosis (regular cell division) which is where the plant just endlessly replicates the cells as it grows so they all have the same information.
With seed production however, you end up with something called meiosis (sexually reproductive cell division) where the chromosomes, the genetic information that determines how the hops taste and grow, are randomly assorted between. Also, remember that certain combinations of chromosomes are linked to other parts, complicating matter further. Since citra hops are diploid (2 copies of each chromosome), there can be a HUGE variation in the resulting offspring. Is it possible that one of the seeds will be close to Citra? Possibly, but the chances are slim to none.
Example:
Say for a certain gene (small part of a chromosome) there are only 2 different versions (in reality there are usually many more than 2), lets call them A and B. And lets use another gene with only 2 variations, lets call them E and F. One diplooid plant could have the chromosomes ABEF and if it was crossed with itself the offspring would be :
AAEF: 12.5%
ABEF: 25%
BBEF: 12.5%
AAEE: 6.25%
ABEE: 12.5%
BBEE: 6.25%
AAFF: 6.25%
ABFF: 12.5%
BBFF: 6.25%
The other problem with seed production is that you have many mutations and other changes that really make it challenging to reproduce a variety by seed. If you were able to get the original parents of the cross (which I am sure HBC is guarding closely), you might have better luck, but it would still be a multi-year process.
theredben said:The difference is that with a rhizome section, or a bine cutting, you are dealing with mitosis (regular cell division) which is where the plant just endlessly replicates the cells as it grows so they all have the same information.
With seed production however, you end up with something called meiosis (sexually reproductive cell division) where the chromosomes, the genetic information that determines how the hops taste and grow, are randomly assorted between. Also, remember that certain combinations of chromosomes are linked to other parts, complicating matter further. Since citra hops are diploid (2 copies of each chromosome), there can be a HUGE variation in the resulting offspring. Is it possible that one of the seeds will be close to Citra? Possibly, but the chances are slim to none.
Example:
Say for a certain gene (small part of a chromosome) there are only 2 different versions (in reality there are usually many more than 2), lets call them A and B. And lets use another gene with only 2 variations, lets call them E and F. One diplooid plant could have the chromosomes ABEF and if it was crossed with itself the offspring would be :
AAEF: 12.5%
ABEF: 25%
BBEF: 12.5%
AAEE: 6.25%
ABEE: 12.5%
BBEE: 6.25%
AAFF: 6.25%
ABFF: 12.5%
BBFF: 6.25%
The other problem with seed production is that you have many mutations and other changes that really make it challenging to reproduce a variety by seed. If you were able to get the original parents of the cross (which I am sure HBC is guarding closely), you might have better luck, but it would still be a multi-year process.
Satisfaction said:I planted tomato seeds this year and they taste amazing and like tomatoes.
Very much appreciate the science behind this, my background is in chemistry. In my world we have something called "significant digits". Is this a case were theory and reality may not cross?
Meaning... The impact on the environmental growing conditions may even outweigh the differences of seed propagation?
I have several colleagues that will argue the difference in the purity of the science, but in the real world it doesn't matter.
brewguyver said:If it DOES work, you should probably come back and report an epic success.
[...]I am sure a chemist could recreate the flavor but at this point no one has the brand name recognition to sell like coke.
day_trippr said:Ever hear of a little company called "PepsiCo"?
I'm sure they could have cloned Coke, but instead they went one better...
Cheers!
Right, they took Coke and added more corn syrup.
I wonder if I add twice as much if I can outsell both of them... Is the world ready for a 400 calorie can of soda? I think so.
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