NHC competition - can't register, server slammed?

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Yep - that's why I'm advocating a qualification system. Sending in 67 entries is just a way to flood the competition. It becomes a quantity versus quality event that way.

Not really. Its a quantity AND quality event. Now, if you just want it to be solely quality, so be it, but that's what Homebrewer of the Year is. The beer determined to be the best.

To argue that Ninkasi is quantity without quality doesn't hold water, to me. If you enter a bunch of crappy beers, you will certainly finish behind a person who enters 1 excellent beer. And if multiple people can brew stellar beer, isn't the best way to decide who wins the person who can brew a great beer in multiple categories?

Oh, for the record, I have zero issue with limiting the number of entries like they did this year.
 
If anyone from the aha is listening, I will volunteer consulting to ensure that this gets sorted out. BJCP, too (I believe they are still using <gasp> FileMaker Pro). Seriously, I will volunteer time and services. It pains me to see these organizations struggling with technology. PM if interested or if you know who I should talk to.

-Blake
Chief application architect for really huge company
 
If anyone from the aha is listening, I will volunteer consulting to ensure that this gets sorted out. BJCP, too (I believe they are still using <gasp> FileMaker Pro). Seriously, I will volunteer time and services. It pains me to see these organizations struggling with technology. PM if interested or if you know who I should talk to.

-Blake
Chief application architect for really huge company

They provide plenty of contact info here: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/contact-us
 
Refunding entry fees for those inconvenienced by a change in region is dumb. Anyone who tried to enter opening day was inconvenienced. Deal with it...
 
Keep in mind that other than NHC, the AHA doesn't run comps. They'd need the BJCP to feed them the info.

It sounds like BJCP and AHA need to get a little closer. This has been called for a few times here... Make certain (large) regional competitions throughout the year AHA sponsored, BJCP events. Make these competitions qualifiers for NHC.

Of course there are still problems with this plan (none of which can't be overcome):
1. Entries to large BJCP events will increase dramatically. This could be unfair to the event runners, especially if they start getting >1000 entries where they were used to 300-500.
2. Beers may qualify in Spring/Summer to be entered the following March. Nobody's likely to forget, but you may not be getting the same beer entered in the qualifier.
3. People winning a local or regional competition may not be prepared to enter the beer into the NHC.


I don't believe there is a mathematical solution to this problem. Sure, $1000 entry fees would limit entries, but it's unpalatable. The only solution is to have more rounds of competitions and the BJCP already runs them.
 
So this thread has taken a turn that really bothers me and I don't think this issue has been raised appropriately. In an era where homebrewing is experiencing unprecedented growth, I don&#8217;t think we should ever be bringing up solutions that seek to limit and prevent access to other homebrewers.

The concept of "qualifying" for the NHC fundamentally changes what the competition is at the core. That is not a contest, it is an "invitational". It's such a radically different configuration that it wouldn't be the same thing at all. If there is value in the invitational concept, then it should be a separate contest altogether that could run alongside the NHC, but it couldn't be the NHC. Every single win after a format change like that would carry a phantom asterisk because it wouldn&#8217;t be the same contest at all.

As it stands, a brewer can brew one batch of beer in a vacuum, pay $12 and win a gold medal. You seasoned contest circuit homebrewers might think that&#8217;s unlikely, but it&#8217;s certainly possible. Under the invitational concept, that same brewer has to brew multiple batches of that one beer, enter multiple contests paying multiple entry fees and multiple shipping costs in the hopes of placing well in one of those contests so that they can then pay the NHC entry fee, ship that beer and possibly win a gold.

As a contest idea in and of itself, it&#8217;s very interesting. As a replacement for an open NHC, it&#8217;s a very stupid alternative.

There are two core problems with this year&#8217;s NHC and its&#8217; important to separate them so that your corrective measures are appropriate to address the real flaws in the process:

Technology failed. Obviously they need better methods to manage registrations, but it&#8217;s important to remember that those people that didn&#8217;t get their entries in weren&#8217;t screwed by the people entering &#8220;average beers&#8221;. They were screwed by the technology failing. The average entries per person were not 15, they were not 10, so limiting entries to 5 fixes a problem that doesn&#8217;t currently exist.

Also, the fact that you think one of your competitor&#8217;s beers might not be as good as one of yours doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with the fact that you couldn&#8217;t access a website in time. If you say different, then you&#8217;re just being butt-hurt.

Fixing the technology means guaranteeing a web solution that provides equal access to the limited number of slots that exist. If the competition sells out in 45 minutes but everyone has equal and clear access to the solutions that register those slots, then the competition is fair. If you&#8217;re not logged in at your computer at 3PM eastern time (like I was) then it&#8217;s your fault for not getting in. However, if servers crash, availability reporting is inaccurate, communication is non-existent and people are unable to even get a page to load, then there&#8217;s nothing fair about that process.

The only other problem is that there is growing demand and limited capacity. The only two solutions are limiting demand and increasing capacity. If you want to limit demand you have to do things to make the contest less attractive, like increase prices, eliminate prizes and do away with awards. People would be less inclined to enter, but it would also be a pretty pointless contest then. The only real way to provide remedy here is to increase capacity, and only way to increase capacity is to add judging centers or increase the limit per center. This year&#8217;s contest allows for 8250 entries over 11 centers. If the model of the contest were to change from a regional 1st round to a state 1st round, each state would be responsible for managing only 165 entries. I think that&#8217;s such a reasonable number that it could easily be increased to 250 entries per state for a total of 12,500 entries. Could that be a better solution compared to what exists now? Maybe, maybe not.

Personally, I think this was a problem of technology, not of quality or availability or cost. We have a lot of people proposing fixes based on the fact that they didn&#8217;t get entered and many of these solutions are pretty draconian. I was able to get 5 beers entered after much hard work, so my view of the problem is much more centered on addressing the difficulties of registering rather than preventing people from having access to the contest itself.

Sorry for the rant, but it really offends me when people take something that is such a plebeian and inclusive affair and want to turn it into something elitist and exclusive.
 
So this thread has taken a turn that really bothers me and I don't think this issue has been raised appropriately. In an era where homebrewing is experiencing unprecedented growth, I don’t think we should ever be bringing up solutions that seek to limit and prevent access to other homebrewers.

The concept of "qualifying" for the NHC fundamentally changes what the competition is at the core. That is not a contest, it is an "invitational". It's such a radically different configuration that it wouldn't be the same thing at all. If there is value in the invitational concept, then it should be a separate contest altogether that could run alongside the NHC, but it couldn't be the NHC. Every single win after a format change like that would carry a phantom asterisk because it wouldn’t be the same contest at all.

As it stands, a brewer can brew one batch of beer in a vacuum, pay $12 and win a gold medal. You seasoned contest circuit homebrewers might think that’s unlikely, but it’s certainly possible. Under the invitational concept, that same brewer has to brew multiple batches of that one beer, enter multiple contests paying multiple entry fees and multiple shipping costs in the hopes of placing well in one of those contests so that they can then pay the NHC entry fee, ship that beer and possibly win a gold.

As a contest idea in and of itself, it’s very interesting. As a replacement for an open NHC, it’s a very stupid alternative.

There are two core problems with this year’s NHC and its’ important to separate them so that your corrective measures are appropriate to address the real flaws in the process:

Technology failed. Obviously they need better methods to manage registrations, but it’s important to remember that those people that didn’t get their entries in weren’t screwed by the people entering “average beers”. They were screwed by the technology failing. The average entries per person were not 15, they were not 10, so limiting entries to 5 fixes a problem that doesn’t currently exist.

Also, the fact that you think one of your competitor’s beers might not be as good as one of yours doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you couldn’t access a website in time. If you say different, then you’re just being butt-hurt.

Fixing the technology means guaranteeing a web solution that provides equal access to the limited number of slots that exist. If the competition sells out in 45 minutes but everyone has equal and clear access to the solutions that register those slots, then the competition is fair. If you’re not logged in at your computer at 3PM eastern time (like I was) then it’s your fault for not getting in. However, if servers crash, availability reporting is inaccurate, communication is non-existent and people are unable to even get a page to load, then there’s nothing fair about that process.

The only other problem is that there is growing demand and limited capacity. The only two solutions are limiting demand and increasing capacity. If you want to limit demand you have to do things to make the contest less attractive, like increase prices, eliminate prizes and do away with awards. People would be less inclined to enter, but it would also be a pretty pointless contest then. The only real way to provide remedy here is to increase capacity, and only way to increase capacity is to add judging centers or increase the limit per center. This year’s contest allows for 8250 entries over 11 centers. If the model of the contest were to change from a regional 1st round to a state 1st round, each state would be responsible for managing only 165 entries. I think that’s such a reasonable number that it could easily be increased to 250 entries per state for a total of 12,500 entries. Could that be a better solution compared to what exists now? Maybe, maybe not.

Personally, I think this was a problem of technology, not of quality or availability or cost. We have a lot of people proposing fixes based on the fact that they didn’t get entered and many of these solutions are pretty draconian. I was able to get 5 beers entered after much hard work, so my view of the problem is much more centered on addressing the difficulties of registering rather than preventing people from having access to the contest itself.

Sorry for the rant, but it really offends me when people take something that is such a plebeian and inclusive affair and want to turn it into something elitist and exclusive.

I don't think anyone WANTS to make it exclusive - it IS exclusive. Ok - everyone who enters can enter.... problem solved. I agree.. But that is not (apparently) an option - at least not currently. If it were an option, I think everyone would agree that it is the way to go.

Most people are approaching the issue from where we are currently at - people ARE being excluded, and will continue to be excluded. . . . . so, on what basis do you exclude? Luck? Money? Job Schedule? Beer Quality? What?

I think you overstate some of the things in regard to "qualifying" - for instance, you say that an * would need to be by any future winners..... really? what would the * say? "This brewer had to beat out flights that were comprised, 100%, of beers that had placed in the top 3 of huge competitions over the course of the last year." How about this years winners? If 15 of the best entries never even made it in because of lack of room, and poor internet connection - that does not deserve an *?

Also, it is not that big of a deal to enter a contest, and then (if you placed top 3), enter another contest several months later. If you have to brew your award winning beer twice - that does not seem like that big of a deal to me. Like you, I was LUCKY enough to get some beers entered...... but I don't pretend that it was any more than luck, and there were lots of others who probably spent more time and effort than me, and did not get to enter.

I don't disagree with you - letting everyone enter is definitely the way to go.... except, that has sort of seemed like the one option that is totally off the table. So, where to go from there?

I do like your state idea - but it presents its own set of problems. For one, this would become a "round 1" and you would still need a round 2 before NHC final to narrow beers down further. . . . . so now, you are right back into the boat you were against - multiple beers needing to be brewed over time. Not sure how it would be any difference than using other comps as "qualifiers." Also, what about population? I live in Iowa. I like my odds, as compared to any of you who live in California or New York or Texas.... Some compensation for that would need to be made.

Again - I don't think anyone WANTS to exclude people. It just seems that there HAS to be exclusion..... So, the choice is HOW to exclude. Not any easy answers. I do like suggestions others have put forth to maybe "regionalizing" aspects of AHA (conventions, contests) to allow more opportunity for access..... problems with this too though.
 
It isn't exclusive in it's current form, it's limited. Once you start making deliberate decisions about who gets to enter, then you've made it exclusive and I personally feel that is wrong.

If the contest is going to sell out in 45 minutes, then so be it. First come, first serve as long as the technology can support it. The determining factor is your individual ability to enter on time, and thus no person or groups of people are making a decision on who gets in. That's completely objective and fair.

The fact that some excessively small number of people have to work that one hour, can't find a decent internet connection, or are just plain forgetful should not be a concern.
 
I was able to register, enter and mark paid for 1 entry. I have received notice that my entries were changed from OH to MO and my entry fee will be refunded

I have to respond to the notice by noon MST today whether I am agreeing to this or not. If I do, I only have to pay shipping to KC, MO and send my 2 bottles.

I only have 2 beers available to enter, neither of which are really to style. can't decide whether I should withdraw or just send one of those in.

I first brewed 20 years ago, but then didn't for 17 years, only picked it back up last year. so I consider myself shiny new at this. so maybe I should withdraw, giving the spot to a better brewer? (not saying this would be the case, but odds are good)
 
I think you overstate some of the things in regard to "qualifying" - for instance, you say that an * would need to be by any future winners..... really? what would the * say? "This brewer had to beat out flights that were comprised, 100%, of beers that had placed in the top 3 of huge competitions over the course of the last year." How about this years winners? If 15 of the best entries never even made it in because of lack of room, and poor internet connection - that does not deserve an *?

Changing the contest format entirely is akin to the introduction of the forward pass. All wins after that change would be of a different era and couldn't be directly compared to the previous era.
 
I see your point - but if 8,000 people log on at the same moment trying to enter 3 beers each, for 24,000 beers..... and the competition can only accommodate 10,000 - well, you can call that "limited" if you want. To me, it is "exclusive" and the criteria is luck.

The use of "qualifying" is not "exclusive" either - EVERYONE can chose to try to qualify. It is simply "limiting" those that move on based on quality of beer. "If people are left out because they brewed a beer that only scored a 24, that should not be a concern."

When many people cannot enter (for whatever reason) it is excluding some people. The fact that no one makes a conscious decision on how to exclude does not mean that there is no exclusion. "No decision" is a decision, and that decision is "exclusion based on luck." Maybe this is the answer..... might be as good as any other selection. But, it is still exclusion.
 
Changing the contest format entirely is akin to the introduction of the forward pass. All wins after that change would be of a different era and couldn't be directly compared to the previous era.

Isn't that true now? What are the chances the best beer was unable to enter in any given category?

Heck, given enough money (and friends) you could technically buy the champion beer right now (or at least a very good chance at it). You'd just need to hire a few thousand people to spam all the other entries with bottled water... best they could do is place highly in American Light Lager.
 
As it stands, a brewer can brew one batch of beer in a vacuum, pay $12 and win a gold medal. You seasoned contest circuit homebrewers might think that’s unlikely, but it’s certainly possible. Under the invitational concept, that same brewer has to brew multiple batches of that one beer, enter multiple contests paying multiple entry fees and multiple shipping costs in the hopes of placing well in one of those contests so that they can then pay the NHC entry fee, ship that beer and possibly win a gold.

Certainly not impossible! Although, very unlikely.

The NHC is already two rounds. You're paying to ship beer twice in the current format. If it were to switch to a qualifying format, you would have likely have to ship beer to three locations instead of two. You would also have multiple ribbons from that beer because it would be judged in up to three competitions (if it would were to place in top 3 in the second round of NHC).

Technology failed. Obviously they need better methods to manage registrations, but it’s important to remember that those people that didn’t get their entries in weren’t screwed by the people entering “average beers”. They were screwed by the technology failing. The average entries per person were not 15, they were not 10, so limiting entries to 5 fixes a problem that doesn’t currently exist.

Numerous people had their entries limited to a 2 - 3, if they were lucky, while others were completely shut out. Still, you did have a few people, including one person early in this thread, who registered all 15 beers. That's not fair to everyone else. Perhaps all 15 of his beers are truly amazing and will score well, but the odds of that are not great.

Also, the fact that you think one of your competitor’s beers might not be as good as one of yours doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you couldn’t access a website in time. If you say different, then you’re just being butt-hurt.

Hmm...I was one of the those people who logged on immediately at 1 pm mountain time. It took me three hours to register, submit my three entries, and pay the fee. I was fortunate that I was able to do this from work, but still my entry site filled up within a few hours. I'm very fortunate that I got my entries in. Many other people did not.

Also, you might get your point across better if you didn't characterize people who disagree with as "butt hurt". Just a suggestion on my part.

Fixing the technology means guaranteeing a web solution that provides equal access to the limited number of slots that exist. If the competition sells out in 45 minutes but everyone has equal and clear access to the solutions that register those slots, then the competition is fair. If you’re not logged in at your computer at 3PM eastern time (like I was) then it’s your fault for not getting in. However, if servers crash, availability reporting is inaccurate, communication is non-existent and people are unable to even get a page to load, then there’s nothing fair about that process.

Obviously, the process was not "fair". Some people were very, very fortunate and were able to register up to 15 entries. Many others were completely shut out. I was certainly at my computer ready to rock and roll at 1 pm mountain time - literally two minutes later the servers starting to time out and couldn't handle the traffic. It seems like you were one of those very fortunate ones who were able to register and pay with fairly minimal inconvenience.

The only other problem is that there is growing demand and limited capacity. The only two solutions are limiting demand and increasing capacity. If you want to limit demand you have to do things to make the contest less attractive, like increase prices, eliminate prizes and do away with awards. People would be less inclined to enter, but it would also be a pretty pointless contest then. The only real way to provide remedy here is to increase capacity, and only way to increase capacity is to add judging centers or increase the limit per center. This year’s contest allows for 8250 entries over 11 centers. If the model of the contest were to change from a regional 1st round to a state 1st round, each state would be responsible for managing only 165 entries. I think that’s such a reasonable number that it could easily be increased to 250 entries per state for a total of 12,500 entries. Could that be a better solution compared to what exists now? Maybe, maybe not.

No disrespect meant, but do you really think you can find enough BJCP judges to do 50 nearly simultaneous competitions across 50 states or, even better, 50 people will to organize events to the same standard and at the same time? You also need to include Canada as well.

First of all the pool of BJCP judges is not deep enough for this idea. It may work well for states like California, New York, or Texas but smaller states like Rhode Island, Maine, etc it's not feasible. Additionally limiting submittals down to 165 per state is completely unfair to the larger states and it would shut out many more brewers from the competition than the current format.

I will also be honest in that I am not very interested in driving long hours, paying for gas and hotel stay, to judge a competition that has decided it's more interested in bulk volume than quality.

If you decide that you'd rather avoid BJCP judges and open judging up to anyone, than good luck with that as well. As an entrant, I would be incredibly angry if the $17 entry I submitted was judged by some Joe who had no clue what the styles were that he/she was judging.

Sorry for the rant, but it really offends me when people take something that is such a plebeian and inclusive affair and want to turn it into something elitist and exclusive.

Perhaps in the early 2000's I would say you have a very great point. But the hobby is so large now that there is really no other to handle a "National Competition" than to either somehow restrict or limit entries, in a fair manner, or vastly increase the size and scope of the competition.

If you want to make a real difference than become a BJCP judge. It's not an easy process nor should it be, but it's far from impossible. If you want people to judge a massive amount of beer to keep this competition "open" then perhaps you should become a judge and learn what you're asking people to do.
 
The fact that some excessively small number of people have to work that one hour, can't find a decent internet connection, or are just plain forgetful should not be a concern.

What qualifies as 'excessively small'? Are you saying most homebrewers don't have day jobs?

Until demand and capacity for judging align, there's going to be problems with allocating scarce resources. Without more judges, all we can do is discourage demand, or accept an entry system that sells out faster than the hottest concert tickets (assuming it works right). Neither allows NHC to be 'inclusive'. Accepting even one entry from each AHA member who would like to compete is a great idea, but it's not feasible right now.
 
What qualifies as 'excessively small'? Are you saying most homebrewers don't have day jobs?

Until demand and capacity for judging align, there's going to be problems with allocating scarce resources. Without more judges, all we can do is discourage demand, or accept an entry system that sells out faster than the hottest concert tickets (assuming it works right). Neither allows NHC to be 'inclusive'. Accepting even one entry from each AHA member who would like to compete is a great idea, but it's not feasible right now.

Yes, this. I'm incredibly surprised I was able to get beers in... got home early (4:15 pm EST), had problems, and barely got in at a secondary site (GA). My work has IE7 and will not upgrade us...

The options are *very* limited if the AHA is aiming for a fair competition. Lottery, BJCP winners, or other qualifiers... capacity is too limited.
 
Numerous people had their entries limited to a 2 - 3, if they were lucky, while others were completely shut out. Still, you did have a few people, including one person early in this thread, who registered all 15 beers. That's not fair to everyone else. Perhaps all 15 of his beers are truly amazing and will score well, but the odds of that are not great.

Can you explain to me why it is unfair that someone in this thread was able to enter 15 beers? The contest by rule is limited to 15 entries and this person submitted 15 entries by rule.

If there were no registration problems and the contest took three days to fill and this guy entered 15 entries, would it still be unfair to you?

Obviously, the process was not "fair". Some people were very, very fortunate and were able to register up to 15 entries. Many others were completely shut out. I was certainly at my computer ready to rock and roll at 1 pm mountain time - literally two minutes later the servers starting to time out and couldn't handle the traffic. It seems like you were one of those very fortunate ones who were able to register and pay with fairly minimal inconvenience.

Actually it took me the better part of two and a half hours sitting at my desk after my workday was done, pulling my hair out with endless 503 server responses. It was a huge inconvenince, but I ended up with 5 beers registered.

This is why I suggest you have to separate the problems with technology from any core problems with the contest. The technology failed miserably and it was completely unfair that the AHA was not prepared for this, but we don't need a chainsaw to pop a pimple here.

If you want to make a real difference than become a BJCP judge. It's not an easy process nor should it be, but it's far from impossible. If you want people to judge a massive amount of beer to keep this competition "open" then perhaps you should become a judge and learn what you're asking people to do.

I have no interest in being a BJCP judge, furthermore you should have no interest in me being a BJCP judge. I have a sense of smell that is a borderline disability, so I have no business nor interest in being a judge. Despite this, I can make a very decent beer, I just don't think I should be the person judging your beer.

I think I'm one of the few people here that doesn't see any reason to change anything at all about the way the NHC is running other then the technology used to handle registrations. People are always going to be late to a limited event, but as long as the process to register has capacity to support requests, then luck is inherrently fair.
 
If the model of the contest were to change from a regional 1st round to a state 1st round, each state would be responsible for managing only 165 entries. I think that&#8217;s such a reasonable number that it could easily be increased to 250 entries per state for a total of 12,500 entries.
i take it you're from RI or DE, and not TX or CA :D

i'm pretty sure we would want to make allocation of entries per state proportional to their population, or number of AHA members.
 
Can you explain to me why it is unfair that someone in this thread was able to enter 15 beers? The contest by rule is limited to 15 entries and this person submitted 15 entries by rule.

It's unfair because the entrant just took up 2% of the available slots in one competition center while others weren't even able to enter 1 entry. He's playing by the rules, which is totally fine, however he was able to do so through an incredible amount of luck which isn't necessarily fair to others.

If there were no registration problems and the contest took three days to fill and this guy entered 15 entries, would it still be unfair to you?

I don't think people would be calling for a new competition format or at least a major overhaul if the competition had taken three days to fill up, no?

Actually it took me the better part of two and a half hours sitting at my desk after my workday was done, pulling my hair out with endless 503 server responses. It was a huge inconvenince, but I ended up with 5 beers registered.

It sounds exactly how my entries went as well. We were lucky to even get our entries in before they shut the whole process down.

This is why I suggest you have to separate the problems with technology from any core problems with the contest. The technology failed miserably and it was completely unfair that the AHA was not prepared for this, but we don't need a chainsaw to pop a pimple here.

Agreed that the technology failed, but this isn't a new problem for this competition and it's only going to get worse each subsequent year unless the format is adjusted accordingly.

I have no interest in being a BJCP judge, furthermore you should have no interest in me being a BJCP judge. I have a sense of smell that is a borderline disability, so I have no business nor interest in being a judge. Despite this, I can make a very decent beer, I just don't think I should be the person judging your beer.

I think I'm one of the few people here that doesn't see any reason to change anything at all about the way the NHC is running other then the technology used to handle registrations. People are always going to be late to a limited event, but as long as the process to register has capacity to support requests, then luck is inherrently fair.

That's cool and all, but perhaps you should consider volunteering to organize or even steward one of these events. A normal BJCP competition is a lot of work for a group of volunteers - 50 separate "qualifying" events is not realistic.

There are plenty of BJCP contests offered during the year if people want to enter and receive feedback. If we're talking about a national competition that recognizes someone as "Homebrewer of the Year", then I'd rather see that determined by quality rather than luck during the registration process.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather the NHC be about the best of the best, rather than a huge pool of entries. The awards would certainly mean a lot more than how luck you got when it came down to registration.
 
DUDE, exactly!! I so, so want to take the training course but I have no time or money to consider driving some 4-8 hours away just to do it. Should take steps to make it *easier* and more available, not harder and much more scarce.

Yes, that means more people and spending more money on the program - don't you think the increase in participants would offset that cost???
 
The BJCP study materials - except for the beer doctoring kit - are freely available. Anyone can download them. The problem is that exam sites are booked years in advance, have limited seats, and fill quickly. Another capacity vs. demand issue.
 
I'd bet we'd have a lot more BJCP judges to help at these events if it wasn't so freakin' hard to get a spot in one of the tests.

This is a huge part of the problem. I am lucky enough to have a tasting exam date at the end of summer and hopefully I will do well enough to be either Recognized or Certified. Even then though I don't anticipate driving hundreds of miles just to judge a contest.....it seems like that is the expectation of some in the AHA and BJCP though. Honestly I want to judge and be a resource in my local brewing community and that's about it.....
 
Guys, with all due respect, this conversation is circular....you're all discussing ideas that won't go anywhere just talking about them here. If you really want to make your ideas heard to the right people, join the conversation at

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=14905.0

The comp committee chair is there taking ideas from people for the committee to discuss.
 
Chrome portable! Doesn't require install, so you can run it from a memory stick.

http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/google_chrome_portable

Sorry... :off:
BUT THIS IS REALLY COOL!

Thanks for the head's up. I installed it to my memory stick and BINGO!!! Works just as fast as FireFox on my workstation!
I think I will install it on the sd card on my Android phone and see it it will work the same. I love being able to dock my phone and use it as storage...
 
Guys, with all due respect, this conversation is circular....you're all discussing ideas that won't go anywhere just talking about them here. If you really want to make your ideas heard to the right people, join the conversation at

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=14905.0

The comp committee chair is there taking ideas from people for the committee to discuss.

I'd love to, but I just spend the last 15 minutes trying to register and log on to the AHA forum, before giving up. Seems to be as buggy as the actual NHC registration. Tried using both Firefox and IE and will not work with either.
 
I'd love to, but I just spend the last 15 minutes trying to register and log on to the AHA forum, before giving up. Seems to be as buggy as the actual NHC registration. Tried using both Firefox and IE and will not work with either.

I'm the admin there. PM here about your problems and I'll take care of it.
 
Guys, with all due respect, this conversation is circular....you're all discussing ideas that won't go anywhere just talking about them here.

This forum is a great place to bounce ideas around that can be vetted by our peers then taken to the AHA for consideration. Let's not try to stifle discussion or debate.
 
This forum is a great place to bounce ideas around that can be vetted by our peers then taken to the AHA for consideration. Let's not try to stifle discussion or debate.

Have to agree Denny. The AHA wants the homebrew community to come to them when they should be going to the homebrew community.

Again I appreciate how difficult explosive growth can be to manage, but right now the AHA seems to stand for Annoying Hassles Always. Not a great way to encourage and nurture involvement.
 
The AHA wants the homebrew community to come to them when they should be going to the homebrew community.
Well, since Denny, an admin there, is reading this thread, it makes me think that they are going to other places in the homebrew community looking for suggestions and ideas. Nothing wrong with him pointing us in a direction that might be more effective.
 
This forum is a great place to bounce ideas around that can be vetted by our peers then taken to the AHA for consideration. Let's not try to stifle discussion or debate.

I don't think he was trying to stifle conversation, just pointing out that there's a way to get ideas to the decision makers, and this forum ain't it.

I mean, it's like the debate forum in a way. Nothing will come directly from anything that's said here.
 
I don't think he was trying to stifle conversation, just pointing out that there's a way to get ideas to the decision makers, and this forum ain't it.

I mean, it's like the debate forum in a way. Nothing will come directly from anything that's said here.

The things that are kicked around here hopefully will lead to some good ideas being taken to the AHA.

The point is that discouraging discussion of ideas here is not cool.
 
The things that are kicked around here hopefully will lead to some good ideas being taken to the AHA.

Right, and Denny just pointed out that you can cut out the middle man by kicking those ideas around on the AHA forum. In other words, you can discuss it here and hope it makes it to the AHA at some point, or you can just take it to the AHA from the start and ensure that it does. No hope required.

The point is that discouraging discussion of ideas here is not cool.

I agree with that, I just don't agree that that's what Denny was doing. He was just pointing out that all you're doing here is talking amongst yourselves. He didn't say don't do it.

Anyways, bottom line is everyone should feel free to discuss this wherever and with whomever they prefer. :D
 
Right, and Denny just pointed out that you can cut out the middle man by kicking those ideas around on the AHA forum. In other words, you can discuss it here and hope it makes it to the AHA at some point, or you can just take it to the AHA from the start and ensure that it does. No hope required.

Sounds perfectly reasonable, let's all not talk about something here and go out and sign up for another forum and talk about it there! What an epiphany!

, I just don't agree that that's what Denny was doing. He was just pointing out that all you're doing here is talking amongst yourselves. He didn't say don't do it.

To me and others it appeared to be discouraging debate. You saw it differently; good for you.

It's a discussion forum. People will discuss stuff, even if *horror of horrors* it doesn't lead to anything.
 
Well, I certainly didn't interpret it as 'discouraging debate' - he simply told us the proper channel to discuss it with them.

I think the whole situation has brought out the worst in a lot of folks. There needs to be some RDW'ing and also some HAHB'ing.
 
I don't think he was trying to stifle conversation, just pointing out that there's a way to get ideas to the decision makers, and this forum ain't it.

I mean, it's like the debate forum in a way. Nothing will come directly from anything that's said here.


Absolutely correct. Discuss and debate away here. But posting to the AHA forum will get your concerns and ideas directly in front of the people who can do something about them.
 
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