Fermentation temp

I just brewed an Irish stout with Nottingham yeast. According to the manufacturer, its preferred temperature is 57-70°F. From what I've gathered it is best to ferment at the lower end of this range.

I've got my fermentor in a spare room that doesn't get much heat, and I have the window cracked to bring the temperature down more. When I walk in the room it seems FREEZING in there, but the stick-on thermometer on my carboy says the temperature is somewhere between 66-68°. It has been in this room for about 4hrs, no signs of fermentation yet (not that I'm expecting anything this soon).

So this seems like a decent temperature to ferment at, but I still can't help but think its too cold in there to promote fermentation. Even though the thermometer says its okay (if not kind of high) my skin tells me otherwise!

So what should I do... RDWHAHB? Open the window more to try and bring the temp to the lower 60's?

I vote for RDWHAHB as it sounds like you have the bases covered.

Did you sprinkle the yeast in dry or rehydrate?

kewlceo said:

I vote for RDWHAHB as it sounds like you have the bases covered.

Did you sprinkle the yeast in dry or rehydrate?

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I rehydrated the yeast. I was freaking out a little bit because I rehydrated far earlier than what the instructions on the manufacturer's website suggested, but then I searched these forums for threads about rehydrating early and was met with a reassuring RDWHAHB. My rehydrated yeast was about 74° when I pitched it into 70° wort, I wasn't able to get all the frothiness into the fermentor but I think that I got most of it.

Your wort is probably still cooling down. When it gets down to 60° close the window.
It is better to pitch the yeast in wort that needs to warm a few degrees to get to fermentation temperature. Less stress on the yeast.

dsaavedra said:

I just brewed an Irish stout with Nottingham yeast. According to the manufacturer, its preferred temperature is 57-70°F. From what I've gathered it is best to ferment at the lower end of this range.

But the stick-on thermometer on my carboy says the temperature is somewhere between 66-68°. It has been in this room for about 4hrs, no signs of fermentation yet (not that I'm expecting anything this soon).

So what should I do... RDWHAHB? Open the window more to try and bring the temp to the lower 60's?

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Let it ride right where its at. Notty likes it a little cool and mid to low 60's is about right. Some will recommend even cooler.

Remember that the yeast is generating heat during the initial fermentation period. The fermenting beer will be 5-10F higher than the room temp because of this. So keep the fermenter in the low 60's for the first few days and it will be fine.

flars said:

Your wort is probably still cooling down. When it gets down to 60° close the window.
It is better to pitch the yeast in wort that needs to warm a few degrees to get to fermentation temperature. Less stress on the yeast.

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So you think I should have cooled my wort to the low 60's before I pitched yeast? I thought that pitching at 70° was pretty standard (maybe I'm just terribly misinformed )?

I think closing the window when (if) it gets down to 60 is a good idea. I will still leave the carboy on the floor in front of the window so it stays cool though.

dsaavedra said:

So you think I should have cooled my wort to the low 60's before I pitched yeast? I thought that pitching at 70° was pretty standard (maybe I'm just terribly misinformed )?

I think closing the window when (if) it gets down to 60 is a good idea. I will still leave the carboy on the floor in front of the window so it stays cool though.

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70 is spot on for pitching. I use Notty a lot and have had consistently excellent results with it. I pitch in the mid 70's, set the fermenter to 63-64F and put the bucket in and forget it. By the next day its bubbling like a champ. In about 8-9 days its done.

Puddlethumper said:

Let it ride right where its at. Notty likes it a little cool and mid to low 60's is about right. Some will recommend even cooler.

Remember that the yeast is generating heat during the initial fermentation period. The fermenting beer will be 5-10F higher than the room temp because of this. So keep the fermenter in the low 60's for the first few days and it will be fine.

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Just checked it again. The stick-on thermometer is right at 66° now. I cracked the window a little more to try and bring the temp down a few more degrees.

On the bright side, I heard 3 weak little bubbles coming out of my blow-off tube while I was checking the temperature! :rockin:

dsaavedra said:

I rehydrated the yeast. I was freaking out a little bit because I rehydrated far earlier than what the instructions on the manufacturer's website suggested, but then I searched these forums for threads about rehydrating early and was met with a reassuring RDWHAHB. My rehydrated yeast was about 74° when I pitched it into 70° wort, I wasn't able to get all the frothiness into the fermentor but I think that I got most of it.

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Then I think you're totally good, my friend, and just seeing some normal lag time. The 4° difference in temp is fine, IMHO.

dsaavedra said:

So you think I should have cooled my wort to the low 60's before I pitched yeast? I thought that pitching at 70° was pretty standard (maybe I'm just terribly misinformed )?

I think closing the window when (if) it gets down to 60 is a good idea. I will still leave the carboy on the floor in front of the window so it stays cool though.

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Yes. Next time cool the wort to below pitching temperatures, and ferment on the cool side of the yeast strain's range. It makes a better beer.

I generally chill my wort to 62 degrees, and then ferment at 64-66 degrees for most ale yeast strains.

flars said:

Your wort is probably still cooling down. When it gets down to 60° close the window.
It is better to pitch the yeast in wort that needs to warm a few degrees to get to fermentation temperature. Less stress on the yeast.

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I don't mean to be a drag here but I respectfully disagree.

It has long been considered best practice to pitch the yeast as close to wort temp as possible to avoid shocking the yeast. I believe the rehydrating instructions on Nottingham call for rehydrating at 85-95F (30-35C) . That means we need to cool the wort to maybe 75+/-F allowing for the cooling that takes place while the yeast is rehydrating.

Pitch it a little warm and let it cool down to fermentation temps.

Keep an eye on that Ferm...mine went from 3 bubbles to ....Ohhh crap...where is my blow off tube real quick...LOL

Puddlethumper said:

I don't mean to be a drag here but I respectfully disagree.

It has long been considered best practice to pitch the yeast as close to wort temp as possible to avoid shocking the yeast. I believe the rehydrating instructions on Nottingham call for rehydrating at 85-95F (30-35C) . That means we need to cool the wort to maybe 75+/-F allowing for the cooling that takes place while the yeast is rehydrating.

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You can "temper" the yeast slurry to wort temps, but it's not a good practice to pitch warm yeast slurry into cooler wort, or to pitch at a warm temperature and cool the wort.

A great alternative is to pitch the yeast slurry (at the proper pitch rate) into a cool wort (slighter warmer temperature than the yeast slurry) and allow it to raise up to fermentation temperature. That makes for the healthiest yeast, less diacetyl production, less yeast mortality, less ester creation, and the best "clean" fermention flavors in the finished beer.

I followed these instructions for rehydrating and pitching the Nottingham: http://www.danstaryeast.com/system/files/pdfs/nottingham_datasheet_0.pdf?download=1

Basically I boiled my water then cooled it to 86 or 87°, dumped in the yeast and let it sit for 15 min, then stirred it all up. Then it ended up sitting for probably 30 more minutes as I tried to get my wort into my bottle with clogged funnels and all the other newbie blunders.

The instructions called for cooling the yeast to wort temps by adding small amounts of wort to the yeast at 5 minute intervals until the temperatures are the same. I ended up pitching when the yeast was 4° warmer than the wort because I was freaking out that I had left it rehydrating for so long (which I know now wasn't really a concern).

Yooper said:

You can "temper" the yeast slurry to wort temps, but it's not a good practice to pitch warm yeast slurry into cooler wort, or to pitch at a warm temperature and cool the wort.

A great alternative is to pitch the yeast slurry (at the proper pitch rate) into a cool wort (slighter warmer temperature than the yeast slurry) and allow it to raise up to fermentation temperature. That makes for the healthiest yeast, less diacetyl production, less yeast mortality, less ester creation, and the best "clean" fermention flavors in the finished beer.

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Interesting. So you'd suggest letting the wort and the yeast slurry cool to maybe low 60's before pitching?

SeeAliceBrewery said:

Keep an eye on that Ferm...mine went from 3 bubbles to ....Ohhh crap...where is my blow off tube real quick...LOL

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Already got the blow off tube in place for this very reason haha I've decided to just use it on all my brews, just for the insurance.

I just hope the tube is wide enough diameter in case it decides to really go off!

Puddlethumper said:

I don't mean to be a drag here but I respectfully disagree.

It has long been considered best practice to pitch the yeast as close to wort temp as possible to avoid shocking the yeast. I believe the rehydrating instructions on Nottingham call for rehydrating at 85-95F (30-35C) . That means we need to cool the wort to maybe 75+/-F allowing for the cooling that takes place while the yeast is rehydrating.

Pitch it a little warm and let it cool down to fermentation temps.

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Yes, you want the yeast as close to the wort temp as possible when pitching, but that doesn't mean you should start with warmer wort, it means that you should cool the yeast slurry before pitching. Pitching warm will mean much more active initial fermentation, which can be exothermic enough to prevent the wort from reaching fermentation temp before the yeast have already produced a lot of undesirable compounds. Most of the off flavors that yeast create form during the reproductive stage, which is essentially the lag period. This is when temperature is the most critical.

A temperature shock of 15° or greater can result in the formation of petite mutant yeast cells, which in turn can create excess H2S. The Lallemand rehydrating instructions suggest using 90-104° water with a weight 10 times that of the yeast, allowing it to rehydrate for 15-30 min, and then tempering the yeast slurry by slowly adding a volume of the chilled wort equal to the volume of yeast slurry over a period of 5 min. This should gently reduce the yeast slurry temp to within 15° of the wort temp, preventing temperature shock. I add a small spoonful of wort at a time every couple minutes until the volume of the slurry has doubled, and then pitch.

JuanMoore said:

This should gently reduce the yeast slurry temp to within 15° of the wort temp, preventing temperature shock. I add a small spoonful of wort at a time every couple minutes until the volume of the slurry has doubled, and then pitch.

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I've had excellent results with Nottingham following the procedure I suggested, and I have always heard and have considered 75F to be a pretty safe temperature target for cooling wort. But this hobby seems to contain a constant learning curve!

Your advice fits with Yooper's and it sounds like a good practice. So how cool do you want your wort at pitching when using Nottingham?

Puddlethumper said:

I've had excellent results with Nottingham following the procedure I suggested, and I have always heard and have considered 75F to be a pretty safe temperature target for cooling wort. But this hobby seems to contain a constant learning curve!

Your advice fits with Yooper's and it sounds like a good practice. So how cool do you want your wort at pitching when using Nottingham?

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Learning curve indeed. I'm learning way more than I expected from this thread.

Puddlethumper said:

I've had excellent results with Nottingham following the procedure I suggested, and I have always heard and have considered 75F to be a pretty safe temperature target for cooling wort. But this hobby seems to contain a constant learning curve!

Your advice fits with Yooper's and it sounds like a good practice. So how cool do you want your wort at pitching when using Nottingham?

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When possible, I prefer to chill to 62° before pitching, and then let it warm naturally to 64°. More often than not I only chill to 64°, pitch, and then hold temp at 64° for fermentation, simply because it's a lot easier with my current set-up.

JuanMoore said:

When possible, I prefer to chill to 62° before pitching, and then let it warm naturally to 64°. More often than not I only chill to 64°, pitch, and then hold temp at 64° for fermentation, simply because it's a lot easier with my current set-up.

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I, for one, am going to have a hard time getting my wort that cool. I take it you either have very cold tap water, a plate chiller or a cfc?

Puddlethumper said:

I take it you either have very cold tap water, a plate chiller or a cfc?

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None of the above. The "cold" tap water here in the summer is often >100°F, which led me to discover no-chill brewing. I use the HEX coil from my HERMS to chill to 90-140° depending on the time of year and how patient I am that day, and then rack to a keg for fermentation. Throw the keg in my ferm chamber fridge, and if there's nothing else actively fermenting in there, set the temp to 62°, or more often there's something else going so I leave it at 64°. In 24-30 hrs it's at pitching temp and I oxygenate and pitch my yeast.

JuanMoore said:

None of the above. The "cold" tap water here in the summer is often >100°F, which led me to discover no-chill brewing. I use the HEX coil from my HERMS to chill to 90-140° depending on the time of year and how patient I am that day, and then rack to a keg for fermentation. Throw the keg in my ferm chamber fridge, and if there's nothing else actively fermenting in there, set the temp to 62°, or more often there's something else going so I leave it at 64°. In 24-30 hrs it's at pitching temp and I oxygenate and pitch my yeast.

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Cool! I've read some posts here where others have used a similar technique. Even with that the idea of delayed pitching hadn't even occurred to me. Do you use an airstone or O2 injection for oxygenating?

Puddlethumper said:

Cool! I've read some posts here where others have used a similar technique. Even with that the idea of delayed pitching hadn't even occurred to me. Do you use an airstone or O2 injection for oxygenating?

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O2 injection.

The Aussie brewers have had a lot of success with no-chill brewing. Haven't had any negative experiences since I've been doing it, and it's much cheaper and easier than trying to buy/make enough ice to chill 12 gal of boiling wort.

I just started a honey porter yesterday and had all of the opposite problems. I forgot to start re-hydrating my yeast until it was time to pitch it, so I don't think I waited the 15 minutes the package instruction suggested. And in spite of having the thermostat turned up to a balmy 65° F (yes, I'm single) my fermenter thermometer it reading 61°F.

No worries thou, the airlock is bubbling away. Well, I guess I'm a little worries it will take off and blow it's top.

If there is one thing I've learned since I started brewing is that beer is extremely forgiving stuff! We tend to get our panties in a wad over every little glitch in our procedure only to find the beer we made turned out great!

In reality, a lot of us are perfectionists and we are trying to develop perfect technique so we can turn out a perfect beer. Maybe we should take a cue from Bob Rotella when he wrote "Golf is Not a Game of Perfect"....brewing is not a game of perfect either!

Cheers fellow perfectionists!

JuanMoore said:

and it's much cheaper and easier than trying to buy/make enough ice to chill 12 gal of boiling wort.

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Highs in the low 20°F and a foot or so of snow make wort chilling cheap and easy.

Newby question. Is there a noticeable flavor difference between rehydrating the yeast and just pitching the dry yeast in? I understand that rehydrating is better for the yeast but what difference in taste would be expected from the 2 of the same brew but one with rehydrated yeast and one with dry pitched yeast?

hartlesj said:

Newby question. Is there a noticeable flavor difference between rehydrating the yeast and just pitching the dry yeast in? I understand that rehydrating is better for the yeast but what difference in taste would be expected from the 2 of the same brew but one with rehydrated yeast and one with dry pitched yeast?

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Here is a link that will have your answer.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/rehydrating-yeast-454457/

Puddlethumper said:

Interesting. So you'd suggest letting the wort and the yeast slurry cool to maybe low 60's before pitching?

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JuanMoore explained pretty much what I do. I do have a CFC and chill the wort to the low 60s (high 40s for lagers) and then add the yeast and allow the temperature to rise UP to the proper temperature, not pitch warm and cool.

I have the book "Yeast" and I keep saying I'm going to read it, but haven't yet.

Well I guess I did something right because my yeast is happily fermenting this morning, about 3/4" of krausen on it, bubbling once a second. I expect it to pick up more as the day goes on.

Yooper said:

JuanMoore explained pretty much what I do. I do have a CFC and chill the wort to the low 60s (high 40s for lagers) and then add the yeast and allow the temperature to rise UP to the proper temperature, not pitch warm and cool.

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Thanks to both of you for the input on this one. You've gotten me to the point of rethinking my procedures. Will be making some changes before brewing my next batch.

Just checked and now the krausen is all the way up the neck of the carboy and going into the tube. Glad I set up that blow-off tube from the get go!!:rockin: