View attachment 89943
Cry Havoc wash I did yesterday. These are 1 quart jars. I will test attenuation on my next batch since there was no OG reading for this brew. Is the brown stuff dead yeast or trub?
kewl, I'll give it a whirl then, the starter is showing signs of activity after 24 hours so late tonight "ll do my boil, if it doesn't take off I can always toss in some cheap WB-06 to finish it off
I've heard it from several pro brewers that I have talked to. There are several podcasts out there too.
One from Brew Strong where Jamil talks about it is the 08-10-09 Yeast Washing episode. I don't remember the others ones that I have listened to that have talked about it.
Can't argue with fresh yeast.
very true, fresh yeast always yields the best result. but what's the percentage difference or perceivable difference between them is the question. I've used washed yeast that's 3+ months old and the difference is so negligible that it's not even funny. just brewed with 6 month old yeast right now and It's taken off like a monster and smells n tastes like a million bucks.
A lot of it has to do with the type of yeast too. From that Brew Strong episode they mentioned the Hefe yeast will start to give off flavors if it is not used within a couple of weeks. They did say other yeasts can last for several months after being washed/rinsed with no ill affects.
hmmmm, funky, maybe i just can't tell the difference, I can barely tell the difference in hefe's I've made with fresh or months old yeast :shrug:.... interesting to know though.
pabloj13 said:The part I don't get about this idea is age of the yeast after what? Harvest? So if you make a fresh starter it should reset the clock? White Labs and Wyeast make the yeast basically the same way we do.
SMc0724 said:Is all the harvested yeast still viable after a month? 2 months? 6 months? 1 year? In other words, using 1.5 billion yeast cells per mL, as given by Daniels, are all 1.5 billion cells still active and viable?
I'm assuming the 1.5B/ml is in reference to a thick slurry and not yeast in suspension.
mtnagel said:So if I use washed yeast to make a starter, then brew a beer and then rinse the resulting yeast cake, does that reset the clock? Or is it from the first time I brewed with it?
Yep, got it. Thanks!Brewing a beer an then washing the yeast against "resets" the viability clock. However the yeast your harvesting is also now a generation older.
How many generations do people typically reuse their yeast for? I've seen 5 or 6, but has anyone tried more? What impacts could using 'older' yeast (add'l generations) have on your brews?
Sorry, which calc sites?Either of the calc sites should give you a good estimation of viability based upon age. At more than 9 months I'd expect < 10% viability
Pickettj said:So is it not possible to take a wyeast pack or white labs vial and raise your own yeast? Keeping the yeast out of beer until you've cultivated a seperate colony for brewing with? In other words, have a mother colony and only use the sisters(?) for brewing.
So is it not possible to take a wyeast pack or white labs vial and raise your own yeast? Keeping the yeast out of beer until you've cultivated a seperate colony for brewing with? In other words, have a mother colony and only use the sisters(?) for brewing.
zeg said:Yes, and this is exactly what the big labs do (at least, in principle). Keeping a strain pure and resisting unwanted mutations for more than a few generations is more complicated than just feeding the yeast, though. At that point you need to be growing pure colonies from single cells and various other microbiological parlor tricks. The yeast really aren't interested in making good beer, they just want to reproduce and evolve, so it takes a lot of effort to keep them in line.
(Even with the mother/daughter colonies, eventually the mother colony will mutate or become contaminated, at which point you've got to very carefully select a few individual cells and then figure out which of them is the one you want to use for your new mother, since the others may be gnarly mutants.)
So are we talking microscopes and petry dishes here?
That is a big difference. Is this just a wild a** guess, or what?
thanks.
mrmalty site says 10% viable;
yeastcalc says 45% viable.
That is a big difference. Is this just a wild a** guess, or what?
Jukas, I used the "Repitching from Slurry" tab on Mr. Malty. My dates were both 10/27/2012. Otherwise, I used default values.
Harvested slurry loses viability faster than professionally-packaged liquid yeast. Yeastcalc corresponds to the latter.
I think Jamil's calc's on viability on the harvested slurry tab is overly aggressive. Without the ability to do actual cell counting & viability staining the best we can do is make educated guesses based on assumed data points.
LowNotes said:Just to chime in on using old washed yeast again. I brewed EdWort's Robust Porter this past weekend (1/11/13) and pitched using Notty that I washed on 2/24/12 (10.5 months old for those playing along at home).
I made a 1cup starter using 1oz of DME the morning before brew day just to wake the little guys up a bit. Decanted the liquid from my mason jat and threw my starter right into the same jar, and gave it a shake every few hours.
Fermentation started about 36 hours after pitching, and went strong for another 36 hours or so before tapering off. At this point I'm assuming the beer will turn out fine, as it acted just like every other beer I've ever brewed. So for whatever it is worth, Notty in certain conditions will definitely be viable after 10.5 months.
I have found that all yeast will last longer than several people expect them to when proper steps are taken.
All yeast will lose viability over time, and as a result you will have some dead cells in your washed yeast jars, and some of the sacc might need a little bit of extra time to wake up. Plan your brew day out in advance, give yourself enough time to put together a proper starter AND have a back up plan in the off case that your yeast does not start back up (either another jar of washed yeast to start, or enough time to get to your LHBS and buy fresh yeast). If your starter takes off and starts eating/breathing, it will do the same in your beer and you should have some good results.
I keep a brand new packet of S-05 and Notty (I use those for almost all my beer so far)
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