Extract beer taste similar debugging help?

Hello!

First thank you all so much for your help with brewing, I have been trolling these forums for a few months now and have learned much that I am now implementing in my future beer brews.

I have an issues I would really like some advice about, I just tasted my second batch of beer and it tastes well almost like my first batch... the best way to describe it like mineral water and or kinda "thin..." (especially the sweet stout) with almost no nose at all to them? not bad, drinkable but strange.

Batch1:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/HoneyBrown.pdf
Primary 10 days, secondary 2 weeks, 3 weeks bottle, 48 hours in fridge before tasting.

Batch2:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/SweetStout.pdf
Primary 3 weeks, no secondary, 2.8 weeks bottle, 12 hours fridge before tasting.

Both I used liquid yeast (no starter...) oh and I use starSan. These beers should be very different.

Does anyone have an idea where I could have went wrong? After reading these forums I know (or think I know) that I did the following two items wrong with both batches.

1) Used Distilled water (thought it was spring water at the time...).
2) My fermentations temps start at about 66 but creep up to about 73 perhaps 74.

I am thinking that the fermentation (although close to what the yeast can handle) is my issue; the fact that it may be to hot. Can I get any conformation or ideas about my issue?

Thank you so much for your time!

Liquid yeast needs a starter, every time, every strain. No exceptions. If you don't want to make a starter use dry yeast.

Most ale should be fermented around 60-68*. I'd say either or both of those things are your problem.

It looks like your beers are both young. 3 weeks in the bottle is still young for most beers and incredibly young for a stout IMO. Stouts take a long time to condition.

The "thin" body you're experiencing might be due to undercarbonation as well. Stouts in particular can take a while to carbonate.
I noticed that you mention "especially the sweet stout" so this could very well be part of the problem. I'd put that Stout away for a while ie. another 6 - 8 weeks then give it a try. I bet it'll be much better.

As far as the Brown goes, give that more time too. A lot of my beers really aren't at their peak until a couple months of aging. It's hard to wait, but pays off. If you search around on here you'll find a lot of brewers talking about off-flavors that end up going away after some aging.


Yes, the fermentation temps and underpitching most likely contributed some off-flavors, but wait it out. Sometimes, those off-flavors are able to be conditioned out over time. I think you'll be happier in the long run!

http://seanterrill.com/2010/05/09/yeast-pitching-rate-results/

Good article on pitching rates. Underpitched beers will taste thin and less sweet.

With proper fermentation temperature control and proper pitching rates, normal strength beers can be drunk, grain-to-glass, in as little as two weeks. By "proper" I mean a freezer/fridge fermentation chamber and appropriately sized starters.

That said, it's true that time will help make bad beers better. Time won't fix everything. It's rare that a bad beer turns into a good beer. But time will make a good beer great.

Thanks all for the info,

Yes my two batches 3 and 4 that are fermenting now I used a starter along with spring water. So I hope they work out better.

I will defiantly age these beer longer and see what happens... I will try to report back what happens.

Hey! I wanted to give a quick update to this issue. I allowed my sweet stout to age another few weeks, and well it's much better - lesson learned.

So I think my issues were:
- Higher then ideal fermentation temps (contributed to off flavors)
- Under pitching (contributed to off flavors)
- Not ageing long enough.

Although I bet if I had ideal fermentation temps and had used a starter I bet their would be less off flavors and I would need to bottle condition for less time.

Both of these issues I have corrected in the brews I have ageing/fermenting so I bet it helps (I now use a started and have a water cooler bath for fermentation temp control)

Thanks all for the advice and thoughts.

Once you get a better feel for brewing, you'll get a better idea of where your beer is along the timeline. It's good to taste them along the way, to see how they're coming along, but it takes a while to know when they're "done" aging. It's easy to taste a beer prematurely and think there's something wrong with it, so don't panic too much when the beer is young.