Help understanding county water profile.

Have brewing lots of IPAs with this water profile straight from the tap. Something seems to be missing with the hops, the hops just aren't standing out and I'm thinking it has something to do with my water. Looking at the following report what can I do to hit the perfect IPA using this water. All results are in milligrams per liter.

Alkalinity. 12-25
Ph. 7.0-7.5
Total hardness. Between 20 and 50
Calcium. 28
Chloride. 11
Magnesium. 1.2
Sulfate. 9.3

Thank you so much for your help!!

Use this http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/. Plug in your water values and adjust. Generally, water to make hops shine should be in the range of Ca 110, Mg 18, Na 15, Cl 50, and SO4 270. These are in ppm and john Palmer's recommendations for hoppy beers.

ok, so I put all my info into the spread sheet and I did some adjusting and adding 5grams of Gypsum and 3grams of Epsom salts puts me at the following resulting water profile

Calcium 92
Magnesium 17
Sodium 4
Chloride 11
Sulfate 232
Chloride / Sulfate Ratio 0.05
"ESTIMATED
Room-Temp
Mash pH" 5.61

How does this look? I have never added any type of brewing salts before,but 5grams of gypsum sounds like an awful lot to me? Im a little on the high side of mash ph. Will adding salts help correct this? Because when I add the gypsum and Epsom salts on the spread sheet the ph value never changes. On my water report the Alkalinity was between 12 and 35, so I guessed and put 18 in the spread sheet. Im kind of confused?

So I think I might roll with those numbers, anyone?

hnycrk said:

ok, so I put all my info into the spread sheet and I did some adjusting and adding 5grams of Gypsum and 3grams of Epsom salts puts me at the following resulting water profile

Calcium 92
Magnesium 17
Sodium 4
Chloride 11
Sulfate 232
Chloride / Sulfate Ratio 0.05
"ESTIMATED
Room-Temp
Mash pH" 5.61

How does this look? I have never added any type of brewing salts before,but 5grams of gypsum sounds like an awful lot to me? Im a little on the high side of mash ph. Will adding salts help correct this? Because when I add the gypsum and Epsom salts on the spread sheet the ph value never changes. On my water report the Alkalinity was between 12 and 35, so I guessed and put 18 in the spread sheet. Im kind of confused?

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I would go with WAY less sulfate, especially if you've never used brewing salts before. I think it would be best to start low and add more next time if you think you need more. I also wouldn't use Epsom salt at all. You don't really need magnesium and too much can have a laxative effect. I would add gypsum and calcium chloride. Enough to get the calcium above 50 but keep it below 125 or 150. I would get the chloride to around 50 or so and maybe try the sulfate at 75 to 100 this time. I would see how that tastes and then adjust with the next batch if you want to.

Yeah, 5.61 is a little on the high side for a pH. You may want to add a little acid to the mash or some acid malt to the grain bill to get it in the 5.2-5.5 range. Adding the salts should lower your pH on the spreadsheet at least a little bit. Not sure why it didn't. Did you put your grainbill and everything in?

Hey Peter, I see your from georgia. So am I. Do you treat your water in any way?

Cool! Good to see other Georgia brewers! I just started getting into water treatment actually. My water is very similar to yours, fairly low in everything which is nice because I can just add salts and not worry about diluting. I've just been adding a little bit of Gypsum and Calcium Chloride to mine. Like maybe 2-4 grams gypsum and around 4 grams CaCl2 in a 5 gallon batch. I use the water calculator on Brewer's Friend to get the right ppm and mash pH. But I haven't made any really hoppy beers since I started adjusting my water. I've just heard a lot of warnings about people going crazy with salt additions and ending up with really minerally tasting beers. I think a light hand is best when it comes to salts.

I have noticed better yeast flocculation since a started using salts, which I believe can be attributed to the calcium concentration being adequate.

Your soft water profile is almost definitely why you've had no pop in your hop! You're on the right track with salt additions. Check out the water chapter in How to Brew, by Palmer. Designing great beers by Daniels also has some great info on the matter as well. The bottom line, each beer style has a range of parameters that yield best results. They effect flavor as well as mash pH and efficiency. ...

ok so here a my new numbers. By adding 3grams of gypsum and 2 grams of Calc. Chloride, I nixed the Epsom salts, but added .5ml of Lactic Acid to help raise the mash ph...

Calcium...97
Magnesium...1
Sodium...4
Chloride...65
Sulfate...104
Chloride / Sulfate Ratio...0.63
"ESTIMATED
Room-Temp
Mash pH"...........5.58

So adding the lactic acid helped a great deal with the mash Ph. My Magnesium is pretty low but you tell me its not really needed with this style of beer so im just going to leave It alone. My next question is when do I add all of the salts and lactic acid? Do i add it all to the mash water before I dough in, or during dough in? I'm kind of confused on when to add. I want to be slapped in the face with hops with this next beer.

The salts go in to ur strike and sparge water while ur heating them up. I'd hold off on the lactic acid until ur actually mashing. Test the pH and only use it if needed...

I usually add about half to the mash and then the other half to the kettle. Or however the amounts work out best. With those additions, I would probably add the 2 grams of calcium chloride to the mash and the 3 grams of gypsum to the boil. You can add them to the sparge water instead of the boil if you want, just add everything somewhat proportionately. The acid needs to go in the mash though because the reason you're adding it is to lower the mash pH. Testing the pH and adding as needed is a good idea though. None of the spreadsheets can be completely accurate.

ok so on the ez water calculator on step 4a it gives me a box to check if I want to add the gypsum and calc. chloride to the sparge water. when I check this box it tells me to add 3grams of gypsum to the mash water and 2.7grams to the sparge water which would be a total of 5.7 grams of gypsum for the batch. Does this sound right or am I missing something? What would happen if don't treat the sparge water, but do treat the mash water?

The "Mash + Sparge Water Profile" in Step 5 is what matters. That's the ion levels in your pre-boil wort which is what all of the water profile ppm goals are for. As long as that's where you want it to be then you're good. It doesn't really matter how you add the salts as long as your mash pH is within range and you have at least some calcium in the mash (I believe it helps the enzymes or something like that).

peterj said:

I usually add about half to the mash and then the other half to the kettle. Or however the amounts work out best. With those additions, I would probably add the 2 grams of calcium chloride to the mash and the 3 grams of gypsum to the boil. You can add them to the sparge water instead of the boil if you want, just add everything somewhat proportionately. The acid needs to go in the mash though because the reason you're adding it is to lower the mash pH. Testing the pH and adding as needed is a good idea though. None of the spreadsheets can be completely accurate.

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How does adding salts to ur boil change your mash chemistry? If your water profile needs adjusting, you adjust your water. All of it. Before you use it. Simple...

Demus said:

How does adding salts to ur boil change your mash chemistry? If your water profile needs adjusting, you adjust your water. All of it. Before you use it. Simple...

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It doesn't. Salts aren't just about mash chemistry though. They're mostly about flavor in the finished beer. And I don't ever have all of my water together before I start so I'm going to be splitting up the salt additions no matter what, so like I said it doesn't matter if you add it to the sparge water or the kettle. As long as your mash has some calcium and the pH is good, then it doesn't really matter how much chloride or sulfate is in there.

So how would I test the mash with a Hanna meter. How long after doughing in should i wait to take a reading? Do I just pull out a cup full and let my meter sit in it? It seems like if mash ph is to low I would want to make the adjusment as soon as possible. I read It can take up to 15 min for mash ph to stabilize.

hnycrk said:

So how would I test the mash with a Hanna meter. How long after doughing in should i wait to take a reading? Do I just pull out a cup full and let my meter sit in it? It seems like if mash ph is to low I would want to make the adjusment as soon as possible. I read It can take up to 15 min for mash ph to stabilize.

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You want to cool the sample to room temperature before taking the sample. And, yes, 15 minutes in is good.

So 15/30 minutes into the mash isn't to late to make ph adjustments? I was under the impression it need to be done ASAP.

hnycrk said:

So 15/30 minutes into the mash isn't to late to make ph adjustments? I was under the impression it need to be done ASAP.

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It's certainly not optimal, but at least you'll know how you need to modify your water adjustments next time.

The laxative effect of magnesium is overstated in this thread. Since beer flavor begins to be significantly degraded when Mg exceeds 40 ppm in the brewing water, the poor taste is more likely to deter brewers than a laxative effect. Since malt provides Mg to the wort, it is not NEEDED in brewing water. However it is quite desirable for its flavor effects in hoppy and bitter beers. Don't be afraid of adding epsom salt to brewing liquor in that case. Just be aware that there is an upper limit that you don't want to exceed. If the tap water already has a significant Mg content, you could easily exceed the 40 ppm limit and end up with poor beer taste.

Sulfate in hoppy beers is a necessary component. Sulfate's primary effect is in helping to dry the beer's finish and allowing the hop flavor and bitterness to come through. In my experience, 100 ppm sulfate is insufficient to help the hop character come through. 300 to 350 ppm is getting on up there and I suggest that most would find this an upper limit. 200 ppm might be a good starting sulfate concentration for assessing if you prefer more or less sulfate. This component is definitely something that is a taster's preference and you should plan on reviewing the cause and effect in conjunction with your tastes.

Low Mg and SO4 could be the source of dissatisfaction in the OP's hoppy beers. Getting those components into a preferred range can help the beers 'pop'. You can learn more about the flavor effects of these and other ions in brewing on the Water Knowledge page of the Bru'n Water website.