Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Too Much Cinnamon Prevents Fermentation?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-06-2008, 05:31 PM   #1
madewithchicken
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 412
Default Too Much Cinnamon Prevents Fermentation?

So lately I have been making cider from apple juice concentrate. This tastes great and only costs about $20 per 5 gallon batch after yeast and sugar.

On my 3rd batch of this I added cinnamon (a lot of cinnamon) to some "herb balls" (big mesh balls for tea and stuff) and threw them in at the second fermentation after boiling them to sanitize them. This worked great.

So my most resent batch I just added the cinnamon at the primary without the herb balls. I think this was not a good idea. The cinnamon has formed a thick coat on top of the apple juice. There is little to no fermentation occurring.

It is not the yeast. I used the same yeast starter to do an I.I.P.A. and is fermenting explosively.

When i get home tonight I plan to skim off the cinnamon and add new yeast.

1920fairfax.com Hard Cider recipe (5 gallons on tap):

Ingredients:

18 - Cans of Apple Juice Frozen Concentrate (standard small ones)

1 - pack champagne yeast, I used Lalvin Wine Yeasts EC-1118 (I think it is best if you make a starter but I have not tested that)

2.5 tsps - potassium sorbate (I think that is the right amount)

some - sugar (Table sugar is fine. People say that table sugar gives your beer a cider taste, I am testing this at the moment, but this IS cider so it better have a cider taste.)

Directions:


1. Wipe down the outside of each can with bleach water and rinse with hot water so the inside loosens up and thaws a bit.

2. Poor in a can of apple juice concentrate into fermentation bucket.

3. Fill empty can with hot water from tap and poor that in. This helps to bring up the temp. and rises out the juice can.

4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 17 more times.

5. Fill bucket with water, the temp. is up to you but you need to get the temp. up to room temp. before adding the yeast.

6. Add yeast. (you can use a fancy cider yeast if you want.)

6. Let set for primary for 1 week and secondary for 1-4weeks.

7. Add Potassium Sorbate to kill off the yeast. (Do not do this if you want to bottle condition. If bottle conditioning skip to step '7a.')

8. Add sugar to taste. I think I added 3 cups or something for the one I was going to serve at a party. Also you can add some water if it is too strong for you. Mine came out to be about 6.5% alcohol which was good for me but some people thought the taste was a bit harsh without watering it down.

9. Force carbonate how ever you would like. We use 5 gallon cornelius kegs.

7a. If bottle conditioning only add normal priming sugar, around 3/4 cup, to a clean bucket. Siphon the cider to this bucket and stir. There is a lot of debate on how to sweeten this if you want. Lactose might be a good idea but so might artificial sweeteners. Both are often considered undesirable but some brewers. Because of this we recommend force carbonation.

8a. Add this to clean bottles and cap.

__________________
madewithchicken is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-06-2008, 11:22 PM   #2
Crisco87
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Burlington, WA
Posts: 57
Default

Hmm...I have never thought of using a concentrate. That really would drop the cost quite a bit. My wife approached me with the question, "how is making your own cider cheaper if it costs over $50 for the juice and sugar alone?" I think next batch will be trying concentrate.
As for the cinammon, there is a post on here somewhere about somebody having the same problem and one of the other users just said to leave it. I am not sure though.

__________________
Crisco87 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-06-2008, 11:23 PM   #3
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,318
Liked 4272 Times on 3112 Posts
Likes Given: 820

Default

I have no idea why this isn't fermenting- I don't think cinnamon has anything to prevent fermentation. Is there any possibility that there are some preservatives in the juice?

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-06-2008, 11:31 PM   #4
toularat
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Eastern Wisconsin
Posts: 93
Default

I know when you make bread you are warned not to add too much cinnamon because it will kill the yeast. You can use it, but not overly much. This is found in Cinnamon Raisin Bread recipes, so it must do something.

__________________
Toularat

Ageing: Apfelwein, Lodi Ranch 11, Plum, White Zin, Tomato, cider

Drinking: Cab, Rhubarb, Rhubarb Grape
toularat is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2008, 01:49 AM   #5
phissionkorps
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 394
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Cinnamon has antifungal properties. I've used it as a natural fungicide before with good results.

__________________

Primary: star thistle traditional mead
Secondary: mango melomel, Biere de Garde, dark strong braggot, oud bruin, Paulaner clone, coffee RIS
Bottled: rye wit, sticke alt, Graetzer, Apfelwein, zeus SMaSH, APA


Last edited by phissionkorps; 10-07-2008 at 02:25 AM. Reason: spelling lol
phissionkorps is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2008, 01:55 AM   #6
Brew-Happy
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,332
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phissionkorps View Post
Cinammon has antifungal properties. I've used it as a natural fungicide before with good results.
+1^10

The antimicrobial properties of cinnamon oil are currently being researched for agricultural and horticultural applications. Same for capsacin and many other plant oils and compounds.
__________________

Fighting Texas Aggie Class of 2003!!! Whoop!

Quote:
Now, Harry you must know all about Muggles, tell me, what exactly is the function of a rubber duck?
- Arthur Weasley
Brew-Happy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2008, 02:01 AM   #7
k1v1116
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 971
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

I think the amount of cinnamon needed to inhibit yeast is high enough to make it completely undrinkable, odds are your problem is something else.

__________________
k1v1116 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2008, 03:42 AM   #8
Brew-Happy
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,332
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

This isn't meant as a challenge or anything. I was a bit curious about research on this subject.

Here is an excerpt from a published article on plant oil effects on S. cerevisiae:



Article: Sensitivity of heat-stressed yeasts to essential oils of plants.
Authors: D E Conner and L R Beuchat
Published: 1984
Google scholar: Link

This research is a bit dated, but basically there is some effect of the oils on yeast. Plus, if you let your ferm temps get too high, there is a more drastic effect. Of course, their temps are a BIT out of range (~125F)

Check out the Allium oils!!

Enjoy!

__________________

Fighting Texas Aggie Class of 2003!!! Whoop!

Quote:
Now, Harry you must know all about Muggles, tell me, what exactly is the function of a rubber duck?
- Arthur Weasley
Brew-Happy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2008, 04:33 AM   #9
Pogo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 344
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Maybe it's just me, but I doubt that the cinnamon is the problem.

I'm thinking that if you will just remove that 2.5 teaspoons of Potassium Sorbate which you've added to the mix, everything will simply be lovely!

Pogo

__________________
Pogo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2008, 04:47 AM   #10
phissionkorps
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 394
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

O-M-G. Thanks for posting a scientific journal article. That makes me happy.
Man allium and yeast do not go together.

Quote:
I'm thinking that if you will just remove that 2.5 teaspoons of Potassium Sorbate which you've added to the mix, everything will simply be lovely!
He isn't adding sorbate until 2-5 weeks after pitching. His problem this time is with fermentation not occurring, so as per his directions, there isn't even any sorbate in the carboy yet.

Quote:
The cinnamon has formed a thick coat on top of the apple juice.
Could be aeration issues?
__________________

Primary: star thistle traditional mead
Secondary: mango melomel, Biere de Garde, dark strong braggot, oud bruin, Paulaner clone, coffee RIS
Bottled: rye wit, sticke alt, Graetzer, Apfelwein, zeus SMaSH, APA

phissionkorps is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the best way to use cinnamon? sonvolt Recipes/Ingredients 5 11-08-2010 11:35 PM
Cinnamon Ale mawa Extract Brewing 9 07-09-2007 05:01 PM
Cinnamon SteveM Recipes/Ingredients 5 03-28-2006 01:19 AM
Cinnamon jaymack Recipes/Ingredients 5 02-16-2006 06:41 PM
Hops prevents cancer! david_42 General Beer Discussion 9 10-29-2005 05:18 PM