Help Needed with controller wiring

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cantrell00

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Could any of the experts here help me with the drawing below?

I intend to run a twin element Kettle as shown. Each element has it's own 20 amp breaker.

I will also be adding a PID/SSR to control a HLT.

Due to amp loading limitations, I need a selector switch to select between powering the HLT element or the second kettle element. One element on the kettle could always operate so it would be constant.

That way I can start heating the first runnings while doing the first & second batch sparge.

I know that my setup is not ideal but there isn't a practical option for dropping a dedicated 240v 60a circuit in my detached garage. Plus, this is more portable if I ever moved.

Auberin-wiring1-a4-simple-1.jpg
 
From your narrative it sounds like you want to have 3 elements then only power 2 at the most at any one time? 2 elements in your boil kettle and 1 element in your HLT. Have power always available to BK element 1 then use the switch to power BK element2 or HLT. Did I get that right? You didn't specifically state how many kettles you're using, but it sounded like you would have a kettle and a HLT (which I take to mean is another kettle).
 
stlbeer said:
From your narrative it sounds like you want to have 3 elements then only power 2 at the most at any one time? 2 elements in your boil kettle and 1 element in your HLT. Have power always available to BK element 1 then use the switch to power BK element2 or HLT. Did I get that right? You didn't specifically state how many kettles you're using, but it sounded like you would have a kettle and a HLT (which I take to mean is another kettle).
Click to expand...

Correct...

Brew Kettle - 2 X 5500w @ 120v - Same PID

or

Brew Kettle - 1 X 5500w @ 120v + HLT 2000v @ 120w - 2 PID

The simplest way to control the second combo would seem to be a selector switch. Either/Or

I get lost when it gets to the point of wiring it correctly.
 
I think the 2 PID solution has better application to your situation. Especially if you are going to be heating your sparge water while beginning your boil.

A couple of questions -

1) what batch size are you planning on
2) since you have pumps, are you going to be using a HERMS or a RIMS? i.e. why 2 pumps?
 
6 gallon, 7.50 boil volume.

HERMS

The two pumps are simply for expansion if I ever want to add an additional pump. It could come in handy on the HERMS if I needed to deal with stratification of the heating water in the HLT.

The issue I am trying to resolve is the ability to have two 20 amp services coming into the box that can be switched from feeding one PID to two.

*One PID to two SSR's to two elements when boiling in the BK.

*One PID to one SSR to one element in the BK + one PID to one SSR to one element in the HLT/HERMS.

Or does it require a combination of switches?
 
Any electricians out there with any thoughts on this?

It seems that the simplest solution is to have three 120v input plugs...

The first two for the PID & two SSR's for the boil kettle.

When wanting to power the HERMS/HLT, you would move the second plug in to the third.

Or can you just wire a switch that would do the same?
 
Don't know if this work or not but after moving things around with it all night - it is the only way it can work.


10409184_10205008903212003_5226971789772061111_n.jpg
 
An electrician friend confirmed the schematic. Here is the layout of the panel...

15544620405_c7f26b7a64_z.jpg
 
Cool plan and panel layout.

One question though, and I'm probably missing something so bear with me - why the 5500W @ 120V elements for the Boil Kettle? That's only giving you 2750W of heating power. For your batch size that seems like it could be a bit underpowered. The way I'm reading the drawing, it seems like you could just use 2000W 120V elements for all three since you have two 20A circuits available. Is your concern watt density in the BK?

Again, maybe I'm completely off base here and just misinterpreted the drawing/your intent. Keep us posted on the build and how everything goes.

Cheers man.
 
NathPowe said:
Cool plan and panel layout.

One question though, and I'm probably missing something so bear with me - why the 5500W @ 120V elements for the Boil Kettle? That's only giving you 2750W of heating power. For your batch size that seems like it could be a bit underpowered. The way I'm reading the drawing, it seems like you could just use 2000W 120V elements for all three since you have two 20A circuits available. Is your concern watt density in the BK?

Again, maybe I'm completely off base here and just misinterpreted the drawing/your intent. Keep us posted on the build and how everything goes.

Cheers man.
Click to expand...

It is the watts density of those small 2000 watt density but I don't know if it is a legitimate concern or not.

I could also use 1650/120v. It is the highest watt ULWD 120 volt element that I can find.

Should I be concerned with scorching wort with HD elements? Have any experience with them?
 
NathPowe said:
Cool plan and panel layout.

One question though, and I'm probably missing something so bear with me - why the 5500W @ 120V elements for the Boil Kettle? That's only giving you 2750W of heating power. For your batch size that seems like it could be a bit underpowered. The way I'm reading the drawing, it seems like you could just use 2000W 120V elements for all three since you have two 20A circuits available. Is your concern watt density in the BK?

Again, maybe I'm completely off base here and just misinterpreted the drawing/your intent. Keep us posted on the build and how everything goes.

Cheers man.
Click to expand...
5500w at 120 is 1/4 the output so only around 1400w... if you can find regular ldw (folded but not rippled) elements in 120v they will work ...
and I dont think you really want those plugs/ cables on the front of your panel...better to mount them on the sides or bottom.
 
augiedoggy said:
5500w at 120 is 1/4 the output so only around 1400w... if you can find regular ldw (folded but not rippled) elements in 120v they will work ...
and I dont think you really want those plugs/ cables on the front of your panel...better to mount them on the sides or bottom.
Click to expand...


I am kinda thinking the same in hindsight. When I was trying to design it though - it was easier to map it out if done in a linear way...

The switches are going to take up much more room. I have thought those toggle switches at RadioShack were 20 amp @ 120v AC. WRONG! 20 amp @ 12v DC.

WAY too small
 
cantrell00 said:
It is the watts density of those small 2000 watt density but I don't know if it is a legitimate concern or not.

I could also use 1650/120v. It is the highest watt ULWD 120 volt element that I can find.

Should I be concerned with scorching wort with HD elements? Have any experience with them?
Click to expand...

Right on man. I don't have first-hand experience with the 120V 2000W LWD elements myself, but there are several build threads on here where guys are using them successfully (same setup as you - two elements in the BK), and have specifically said they haven't had scorching. So keep that in mind.

I'm still debating/designing an electric system myself, but one of the things I do know for sure is that it will have to be powered by two 20A circuits like yours. Bobby M at brewhardware is apparently going to be releasing some 100% stainless 2000W 120V LWD foldbacks (8") here pretty soon. If I end up pulling the trigger on an elec. build, that's probably what I would do. You can also get 2000W LWD 120V foldbacks at bostonheatingsupply.com.

Regarding those switches, the Home Depot near me has some 120V 20A toggle switches that look similar to what's in your drawing. You might check your local store to see what they've got. I think they're maybe $4 a pop.

Looking forward to the rest of your build.

Cheers.

Edit: By the way, where are you finding 1650W 120V ULWD elements?
 
NathPowe said:
Right on man. I don't have first-hand experience with the 120V 2000W LWD elements myself, but there are several build threads on here where guys are using them successfully (same setup as you - two elements in the BK), and have specifically said they haven't had scorching. So keep that in mind.

I'm still debating/designing an electric system myself, but one of the things I do know for sure is that it will have to be powered by two 20A circuits like yours. Bobby M at brewhardware is apparently going to be releasing some 100% stainless 2000W 120V LWD foldbacks (8") here pretty soon. If I end up pulling the trigger on an elec. build, that's probably what I would do. You can also get 2000W LWD 120V foldbacks at bostonheatingsupply.com.

Regarding those switches, the Home Depot near me has some 120V 20A toggle switches that look similar to what's in your drawing. You might check your local store to see what they've got. I think they're maybe $4 a pop.

Looking forward to the rest of your build.

Cheers.

Edit: By the way, where are you finding 1650W 120V ULWD elements?
Click to expand...

I have bought a ton of stuff from Bobby.. Yeah, will follow up with him...

Grainger on the 1650 watt elements.

You are the man on the heads up for the switches at HomeDepot... Awesome. Yup. $3.97 ea.

eab1e650-68ea-42e2-87eb-e99dcb892f27_300.jpg
 
Looks like 240v may work afterall...

Would greatly simplify things... Not to mention making it much less expensive

15374192599_1dc4bcca25_k.jpg
 

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