US-05 for 1.95!

Today I found some US-05 at a local healthfood store for 1.95... I was pleased as my more local HBS has raised their price to something like 3.50. I really wish they weren't charging this much for it. Insane.

Anyway, Just wanted to throw out there that, IMO, this is one of the best clean dry yeasts. I can't wait to make a barleywine using this stuff...

Did prices recently go up on that? I also noticed at my LHBS that US-05 was $3.65...up from $1.85 just a couple months ago. Is there some shortage of dry yeast that I don't know about...or another jump in fuel prices?

It's not that insane, just because you got used to paying very little for it doesn't mean it isn't worth what they are charging now. I doubt $1.50 is going to make the difference between someone being able to afford to brew a batch of beer or having to can it all together.

For the record, the yeast lab is charging more. The upcharge is being passed through the LHBS and HBS's. You've likely come across a slow moving supply that has not yet been affected by the increased supply charge.

Might want to check those packed dates. Dry yeast does lose viability over time.

Twoheads, there has been a price rise and I can't remember the phrasing they used but basically they sited a increase in overhead. OHBS still have it at a decent price. Ed at BMW has it for $2.45 and others have it still around $2.00, ASH is up to 3.39....

Tonedef, it's not that paying an extra $1.50 is going to kill any of us, but for twice that price we could get liquid yeasts that are so coveted... I even got a liquid yeast recently for LESS than the cost of that, due to its date!

Tonedef131 said:

It's not that insane, just because you got used to paying very little for it doesn't mean it isn't worth what they are charging now. I doubt $1.50 is going to make the difference between someone being able to afford to brew a batch of beer or having to can it all together.

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Going from $1.50 to $3.50 is a 133% increase. I'd call that pretty insane unless they give a good reason. I understand hop prices going up when there are storms and a general shortage, but what is the reason behind jacking up these prices? But, the market will work it out...there are plenty of alternatives, the easiest being to re-use the yeast cake and/or wash the yeast. I've always liked using Wyeast too, and love 1056; it seems like a superior strain anyways. At almost $4 a pop, going for WLP001 or 1056 isn't that big of a jump.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Might want to check those packed dates. Dry yeast does lose viability over time.

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Yeah, the place just started carrying supplies this summer so I'm not greatly concerned... I'll check a pitching calculator for viability as well... I'll be using it for a small beer, maybe a SMASH since I've yet to do one, then a barleywine, coming up this fall...

Baja_Brewer said:

Tonedef, it's not that paying an extra $1.50 is going to kill any of us, but for twice that price we could get liquid yeasts that are so coveted... I even got a liquid yeast recently for LESS than the cost of that, due to its date!

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Right, for twice that price you could get liquid yeasts that need a starter (an additional couple bucks) and are the same strain... oh wait?


I don't like the increases, but being cheap isn't the only reason people use US-05

If the only thing keeping you from using the liquid counterparts was price, then go ahead and spend the extra couple bucks and get it. I do use liquid for the most part, but dry yeast advocates will still use it because it is easier to hit your pitch rates and it is still cheaper. I don't know what caused the price increase, but for how quality and consistent the Fermentis products seem to be I think their asking prices are fair.

If you think it is unfair then stop buying their product, if enough people feel this way and their sales cut back I am sure they will lower prices if their is enough float built into it.

Baja_Brewer said:

Twoheads, there has been a price rise and I can't remember the phrasing they used but basically they sited a increase in overhead. OHBS still have it at a decent price. Ed at BMW has it for $2.45 and others have it still around $2.00, ASH is up to 3.39....

Tonedef, it's not that paying an extra $1.50 is going to kill any of us, but for twice that price we could get liquid yeasts that are so coveted... I even got a liquid yeast recently for LESS than the cost of that, due to its date!

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My main problem with the increase is that there's something fundamentally wrong with how they are running the business if they (the yeast labs) have to suddenly more than double their prices to remain profitable. I can understand missing your cost estimates by 20% or hell even 50%. But 100%+? There's no reason for that other than poor management.


EDIT:

And if for whatever reason the increase is not cost-related, but profit-related, then we are looking at possible price-fixing.

weirdboy said:

EDIT:

And if for whatever reason the increase is not cost-related, but profit-related, then we are looking at possible price-fixing.

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Yeah, it almost looks like that when both Fermentis and Danstar both double their prices within a couple weeks of each other.

weirdboy said:

My main problem with the increase is that there's something fundamentally wrong with how they are running the business if they (the yeast labs) have to suddenly more than double their prices to remain profitable. I can understand missing your cost estimates by 20% or hell even 50%. But 100%+? There's no reason for that other than poor management.

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Well I think a lot of homebrew stores are taking advantage of the price increase from the manufacturer and working it into your price. In this thread someone said it was $1.50 before, I have never seen it for under $2...ever. And then they say the price raised to $3.50. Maybe in your store, but that isn't the fault of the manufacturer. Midwest still sells it for $2.75, I was getting it for $2.25 before...the difference of $0.50 means nothing in the grand scheme of my beer.

Make sure you are checking all the facts before you get too worked up over bloated increase percentages on Internet forums.

Nottingham jacked their prices on the 500g packages, but not the 11g, enough that it was cheaper to buy ~50 11g packages than 1 500g. Big discussion on it over at probrewer.

Also, weirdboy, that is like an exact quote from the thread at probrewer over notty.

Synovia said:

Right, for twice that price you could get liquid yeasts that need a starter (an additional couple bucks) and are the same strain... oh wait?


I don't like the increases, but being cheap isn't the only reason people use US-05

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I've gotten the smack packs on sale/close to expiration date for 2.65-3.99... smack them, they swell... at best health they could probably do 10 gallons of a low gravity beer, so thats...oh wait?... cheaper than almost all dry yeasts?

I didn't pick it up only because it was cheap, Its a good, high attenuating, clean fermenting ale yeast, which I pointed out in OP. I'm glad to have some on hand.

Sine the price increases I've taken to yeast washing, this will cut my prices back to about what they were before because I don't use them past a few generations...

Baja_Brewer said:

I've gotten the smack packs on sale/close to expiration date for 2.65-3.99... smack them, they swell... at best health they could probably do 10 gallons of a low gravity beer, so thats...oh wait?... cheaper than almost all dry yeasts?

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At best health, they have something like (and we're talking the large activators here), 100B yeast cells, which is half what you need for a 5g batch at 1.048. At expiration date, you're lucky if you get 50B cells. That's severely under pitching. Typical smaller smack pacs have in the 15B range. You'd need 15 of those to properly pitch.

The dry packets have roughly 20B cells per gram, so either 110B for a 5.5oz pack, or 220B for an 11g pack.

Synovia said:

At best health, they have something like (and we're talking the large activators here), 100B yeast cells, which is half what you need for a 5g batch at 1.048. At expiration date, you're lucky if you get 50B cells. That's severely under pitching.

The dry packets have roughly 20B cells per gram, so either 110B for a 5.5oz pack, or 220B for an 11g pack.

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My mistake on the 10 gal part, but

The Activator™ has a minimum of 100 billion cells of pure, ready-to-pitch yeast, plus an internal nutrient packet. The Activator™ is designed to inoculate five gallons of wort (up to 1.060 SG) providing the pitching rate recommended by professional brewers.

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The PROPAGATOR™ has a minimum of 25 billion cells of pure yeast, plus an internal nutrient packet. The PROPAGATOR™ is designed to inoculate a one liter starter* before adding to five gallons of wort (up to 1.060 SG).

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Source


The internal nutrient packet with help raise, if not only return, your pitching rate to an adequate amount once smacked, if using the activator pack, which is all my LHBS carries.

I've even used corn sugar to make starters, no ill effect. My point is that I can still get viable yeast for the same or cheaper using wet yeast as I can dry yeast... Its a shame, and their loss, that the price increase is pushing some people away from using their product.

Baja_Brewer said:

The internal nutrient packet with help raise, if not only return, your pitching rate to an adequate amount once smacked, if using the activator pack, which is all my LHBS carries.

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No, it doesn't. The only think the internal nutrient pouch does is give you an indicator of the viability/vitality of the yeast. There is not enough sugar in there to grow any amount of yeast, and making corn sugar starters is not good practice. I know you are going to post back telling me your beer with it turned out great or was the best thing you ever brewed like everyone on the internet does. I can't argue with you about that without trying the beer, but I can tell you why you shouldn't get in the habit of it. Feeding them glucose gets them ready to eat glucose, so when you dump them into a batch of maltose they have to re-adapt. Where if you had grown them up on maltose to begin with they would have been much more prepared for the ferment.

Tonedef131 said:

No...making corn sugar starters is not good practice....Feeding them glucose gets them ready to eat glucose, so when you dump them into a batch of maltose they have to re-adapt. Where if you had grown them up on maltose to begin with they would have been much more prepared for the ferment.

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Thats good to know, I wasn't aware of that. No need to get defensive either, I'm here to learn/spread what's known, and I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong. No need to fight, as the saying goes winning an argument on the internet is like winning the special Olympics. Sourcing stuff is useful too.

Baja_Brewer said:

Thats good to know, I wasn't aware of that. No need to get defensive either, I'm here to learn/spread what's known, and I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong. No need to fight, as the saying goes winning an argument on the internet is like winning the special Olympics. Sourcing stuff is useful too.

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Sorry if it came off hostile. It's just it seems like every time I bring up a better way to do something people always say "well my beer turns out fine". Anyway, source:

Use an all malt wort for starters. The sugar in the starter needs to be maltose, not simple sugar. Yeast that have been eating a lot of simple sugars stop making the enzyme that enable it to break down maltose, which is the main sugar in wort. The yeast quickly learn to be lazy and the ability to fully attenuate a batch of beer suffers.

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Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters

All the more reason to learn how to wash and store your yeast...

Also, telling the HBS that another place sells it cheaper may get them to match the price as WallyWorld does.

homebrewer_99 said:

All the more reason to learn how to wash and store your yeast...

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Totally. I've been avoiding this because 11.5g dry yeast packets at my LHBS have been $1.69 and I use mostly US-05. If they are raising their price to $3.50 - $4 ea then I guess it is time to start washing yeast.

Tonedef131 said:

Sorry if it came off hostile. It's just it seems like every time I bring up a better way to do something people always say "well my beer turns out fine". Anyway, source:
Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters

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Cool, thats useful and I've bookmarked it to re-read later. My beer generally does turn out 'fine' but I don't want to settle for 'fine' if I want to make the best beer possible. Which I do.

bdnoona said:

Totally. I've been avoiding this because 11.5g dry yeast packets at my LHBS have been $1.69 and I use mostly US-05. If they are raising their price to $3.50 - $4 ea then I guess it is time to start washing yeast.

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I'd also say stock up next chance you get! By the time I had heard my last place had already switched. Washing it once or twice will get you your monies worth, I've just started doing it so I generally wash and re-use right away if possible. Then pitch it after a few batches.

Baja_Brewer said:

Cool, thats useful and I've bookmarked it to re-read later. My beer generally does turn out 'fine' but I don't want to settle for 'fine' if I want to make the best beer possible. Which I do.



I'd also say stock up next chance you get! By the time I had heard my last place had already switched. Washing it once or twice will get you your monies worth, I've just started doing it so I generally wash and re-use right away if possible. Then pitch it after a few batches.

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you might be one of the few that doesn't take offense to reasoning behind why "their" method isn't best. Sources be damned, lol.

I do think that sourcing something as Tonedef did is great, imo. I gives the reader the ability to read more on the topic if they wish AND (this is the big one) it's not just some random guy on the internet, but rather at least a reputable source, if not a textbook on the matter.

Also, on topic, as I said before and no one seemed to care there usually is reason for price increase. I know this isn't from fermentis, but with danstar lallemand(works for danstar) over at probrewer explained it well in this thread:
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14084

I bet if someone emailed fermentis, they'd get about the same thing.

twoheadsbrewing said:

I've always liked using Wyeast too, and love 1056; it seems like a superior strain anyways.

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They are exactly the same yeast. 001=1056=us05 literally. Not just that they all turn out really close, but it really is the same exact strain of yeast in different forms.

z987k said:

you might be one of the few that doesn't take offense to reasoning behind why "their" method isn't best. Sources be damned, lol.

I do think that sourcing something as Tonedef did is great, imo. I gives the reader the ability to read more on the topic if they wish AND (this is the big one) it's not just some random guy on the internet, but rather at least a reputable source, if not a textbook on the matter.

Also, on topic, as I said before and no one seemed to care there usually is reason for price increase. I know this isn't from fermentis, but with danstar lallemand(works for danstar) over at probrewer explained it well in this thread:
First hops, now yeast! - ProBrewer Interactive

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I've read that probrewer thread and it is too bad, because it seems they are hurting the pro's the worst. I can understand rising overhead costs, I still think that it is obscene. They could have used a step system to build up their prices, or likewise...

I like to learn from trusted sources, that's why linking this is basically essential and, though others may not see the need, I try and link most things I offer advice on. I generally don't take advice from a homebrewer's webpage from 1997, last updated in '99 (no specific examples here, I've just stumbled across a few.)

As far as making the best beer I can goes, temperature control during fermentation and yeast (handling, washing, use, pitching rates, etc.) are the items I need to get a better handle on. I recently started carbing to the correct volumes, and balancing my lines so that I can maintain these carb levels. I've been properly aging my beers, I've been sanitizing things to the point of over sanitizing. My refractometer and beersmith allow me to hit my pre- boil volume and calculate what I'll obtain as post-boil gravity. As I said, its still early in my brewing career and I'd love to be able to go pro someday, maybe when I can afford a mid life crisis or something Til then I'll just keep :rockin:

Thanks for the input!

z987k said:

Also, on topic, as I said before and no one seemed to care there usually is reason for price increase. I know this isn't from fermentis, but with danstar lallemand(works for danstar) over at probrewer explained it well in this thread:
First hops, now yeast! - ProBrewer Interactive

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Like someone in the probrewer thread posted, that would explain a 20% or so increase, not quadrupling the price.

Either Lallemand is in financial trouble, or this is just a huge profit grab.

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

Going from $1.50 to $3.50 is a 133% increase.

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Synovia said:

...just a huge profit grab.

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This.

With the $2.20 to $3.50 overnight price jump, the dry yeast in my fridge is the last I will buy. Once my supply is gone, it's gone, and I'll use slants of the liquid stuff from now on. Supply and demand will win this one, when people stop buying it they will have to drop their price or go out of business.

I think the price increase is all EdWorts fault.... all that Haus Pale on Notty. Maybe BierMuncher with the s-05....

They are probably in cahoots with the yeasties!