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Old 12-07-2011, 03:43 PM   #21
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I'll start lagering at 80 degrees for three days. Should be equivalent to 10 weeks at 30 degrees, right?

I would buy that diacetyl would go away faster if you are "lagering" at essentially fermentation temperatures (45 degrees). But it's silly to suggest that lagering warmer for shorter periods yields the same beer as lagering very cold for longer periods. For example, I just finished freeze distilling my doppelbock to yield an eisbock. Would any serious lager brewer really argue that beer would be the same after three weeks of warm "lagering" as it will be after 10 weeks of cold lagering? I guess it might be worth doing a tasting experiment to find out.

Like Yooper, I notice a crisper, cleaner beer after longer lagering periods. But it can be difficult to have the patience necessary for that. Frankly if I want light coloured beer fast I can just make APAs or bitters.

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:32 PM   #22
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Ok I'll spell it out in an example. Lets say you brew a 1.050 beer at 50 degrees you would then lager at 40 degrees for appx 50 days or 1 day per point. The same example of a 1.050 beer but now its fermented at 45 degrees you would then lager at 35 degrees but because of the colder temps and therfore longer SLOWER conditioning time you may lager for 60 days on that same beer. you want a 10 degree diff between fermentation and lagering temps . These are all rules of thumb and the "art' of brewing can and does sometimes contridict the science of brewing. No one is suggesting to lager at 80 degrees... simply that's not lagering. I'm not trying to sound like an A**hole but you asked "us" how long should you lager for and we have given you legitimate answers. If for some reason you don't agree then do some trials and let us know what you find.

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:46 PM   #23
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Is it not true that you can lager an ale to similar effect? That is, will an ale also lose some of its stronger flavors, allowing the more subtle ones to come through, just like typical lagering does? I ask this because I never brew ales, and am wondering if aging works with any beer.

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:46 PM   #24
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Ok I'll spell it out in an example. Lets say you brew a 1.050 beer at 50 degrees you would then lager at 40 degrees for appx 50 days or 1 day per point. The same example of a 1.050 beer but now its fermented at 45 degrees you would then lager at 35 degrees but because of the colder temps and therfore longer SLOWER conditioning time you may lager for 60 days on that same beer. you want a 10 degree diff between fermentation and lagering temps . These are all rules of thumb and the "art' of brewing can and does sometimes contridict the science of brewing. No one is suggesting to lager at 80 degrees... simply that's not lagering. I'm not trying to sound like an A**hole but you asked "us" how long should you lager for and we have given you legitimate answers. If for some reason you don't agree then do some trials and let us know what you find.
I stand corrected osagedr you were not the op and you did not directly ask the question.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:05 PM   #25
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I stand corrected osagedr you were not the op and you did not directly ask the question.
No worries. It would be great of shorter lagering periods at warmer temperatures yielded the same beer. I'm trying to convince myself it could be true. I visited Weihenstephan (oldest brewery in the world) in Sept 2010 and they only lager for 3-4 weeks. Some people think their lagers are okay

As an aside some of their ales are fermented out within three days then stored cold for 5-6 days before bottling.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:16 PM   #26
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No worries. It would be great of shorter lagering periods at warmer temperatures yielded the same beer. I'm trying to convince myself it could be true. I visited Weihenstephan (oldest brewery in the world) in Sept 2010 and they only lager for 3-4 weeks. Some people think their lagers are okay

As an aside some of their ales are fermented out within three days then stored cold for 5-6 days before bottling.
No, it's not the same beer. But the differences are small, really.

I still aver that a longer, colder lagering period gives a "crisper" finish with a cleaner taste. But it's not like the beer lagered at 40 degrees will be loaded with polyphenols or be cloudy. It just may not be a "crisp" as the beer longer longer at near freezing. The colloidal stabilization will occur at 40 degrees, just as at 34 degrees.

For more scientific info on WHY this is, and how, I'd suggest delving into Kai Troester's excellent information: Fermenting Lagers - German brewing and more about 1/2 way down the page under "maturation". He's two million times smarter than I could ever hope to be, and has done many scientific papers and research on German techniques including lagering.
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