*Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway - Enter Now!*

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Ramping down for lagering...
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-23-2010, 10:44 PM   #1
robertjohnson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Walla Walla, Wa.
Posts: 93
Default Ramping down for lagering...

I'm making a lager. I dropped my temperature faster than the recommended 2 degrees per day while ramping down after the diacetyl rest and was wondering if the yeast would floc out, leaving me with nothing to bottle with. I went from 66 to 44 at the recommended rate, but then just stuck it in the fridge. In less than 12 hours, it dropped to 36 degrees. (I thought low was the highest temperature setting for some reason, hence the sudden drop.) Anyway, after lagering should I consider adding some champagne yeast or something clean that works at cooler temps, or will I be fine as is?

Also, does the lagering period include the time it takes to get from d-rest to lager temps or do I mark my calendar when I hit the mid-30s? It took me 10 days to ramp down to lagering temps! And here I thought making a lager would be quick and cavalier (not)...

Thanks for any help.

__________________
robertjohnson is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2010, 12:13 AM   #2
Bob
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christiansted, St Croix, USVI, US Virgin Islands
Posts: 3,921
Liked 127 Times on 95 Posts
Likes Given: 36

Default

You should be fine. You'll probably have to have more patience than normal during conditioning - I usually do.

I've never had to re-seed my lager beers for bottle conditioning.

I don't know about any widespread standard. I always include the ramp time in the total lagering time. But then again I tend to ramp it down then forget about it. Hell, I usually say, "What the hell's that?" and have to read my notes. Then I say, "Jesus, that's been there a while."

Bob

__________________

Brewmaster
Fort Christian Brewpub
St Croix, US Virgin Islands

Bob is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2010, 02:13 PM   #3
Cpt_Kirks
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lakeland TN
Posts: 3,738
Liked 44 Times on 39 Posts

Default

I pretty much go straight from the d-rest to crash cooling. I want the yeast to fall out, so I can keg it, force carb it, and get it into the kegerator for some lagering.

Bottling is different, though.

__________________
Cpt_Kirks is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2010, 11:04 PM   #4
robertjohnson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Walla Walla, Wa.
Posts: 93
Default

Thanks for getting back to me. I will be bottling, so crash cooling wouldn't be ideal for me. I guess it really doesn't matter one way or the other though if I was planning on following the advice on the homebrewwiki page and added some clean ale yeast to ensure even carbonation. I'm not patient, especially since it's my first lager, so that's the best route for me. Here's the quote from homebrewwiki:

Now you can either rack to a serving keg and force carbonate, in case you didn't do the force carbonation during lagering, or bottle. If you plan to bottle condition the beer you may want to add fresh yeast with the priming sugar, because the yeast present in the beer may not perform as well anymore. After all, it is about 7-6 weeks old. A quarter to half a pack of dry yeast properly hydrated is the easiest way at this point. It also doesn't matter if ale or lager yeast is used since the flavor profile of the beer has already been determined by the yeast used for the primary fermentation. If you don't add fresh yeast you need to be more patient with the conditioning of the beer. Let the beer carbonate at room, primary fermentation temperature or anywhere between. The higher the temperature is, the faster the beer will carbonate.

Thanks again!

__________________
robertjohnson is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2010, 03:34 AM   #5
passedpawn
Waste Allocation Load Lifter - Earth Class
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
passedpawn's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: ☼ Clearwater, FL ☼
Posts: 18,983
Liked 3371 Times on 2083 Posts
Likes Given: 2878

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Kirks View Post
I pretty much go straight from the d-rest to crash cooling. I want the yeast to fall out, so I can keg it, force carb it, and get it into the kegerator for some lagering.

Bottling is different, though.
I bottle. I ferment lagers cold (<50), d-rest @ 65, then straight to 30 for a week. I get ice in the bottom of my chest freezer.

Then straight to bottle. No extra yeast. No problem. I get good heading carb in 1 wk, body carb in 2.
__________________
Hey goomba I love how you dance the rumba
But take some advice paisano learn-a how to mambo
If you're gonna be a square you ain't-a gonna go anywhere.
passedpawn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2011, 06:54 AM   #6
robertjohnson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Walla Walla, Wa.
Posts: 93
Default

Just an update on an ancient thread (I hate leaving them incomplete in case people want to use them as a reference):

I did not re-seed the yeast and I experienced carbonation problems. At first, I attributed it to the beer warming to almost room temperature during bottling while I had calculated the amount of priming sugar based on the mistaken assumption that the beer would remain close to lagering temperature and thus that the residual CO2 would mostly remain dissolved in the beer. It turns out that after about a year in the bottle, the carbonation has become much closer to normal. So, I'm attributing it to the yeast floccing out during my 6 week lagering period (much different from 1 week, apparently).

In the future: re-seed with dry yeast during bottling OR bottle immediately after the diacetyl rest and lager in the bottle. Either way, I'll have a yeast sediment and have to pour carefully, so I'll just settle for a little extra hop and protein sediment and little extra care in pouring. And that way, I won't sacrifice a fermenter and a temp controlled chamber for such a lengthy period. Those 10 weeks really screwed up my pipeline!

__________________
robertjohnson is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2011, 02:01 PM   #7
pennisim
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 85
Default

For lagers, do you D-rest, then transfer to secondary, then bring down to 35 or do you D-rest, bring down to 35, then transfer to secondary??
-Matt

__________________
pennisim is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2011, 02:03 PM   #8
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,194
Liked 4505 Times on 3276 Posts
Likes Given: 883

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertjohnson View Post
Just an update on an ancient thread (I hate leaving them incomplete in case people want to use them as a reference):

I did not re-seed the yeast and I experienced carbonation problems. At first, I attributed it to the beer warming to almost room temperature during bottling while I had calculated the amount of priming sugar based on the mistaken assumption that the beer would remain close to lagering temperature and thus that the residual CO2 would mostly remain dissolved in the beer. It turns out that after about a year in the bottle, the carbonation has become much closer to normal. So, I'm attributing it to the yeast floccing out during my 6 week lagering period (much different from 1 week, apparently).

In the future: re-seed with dry yeast during bottling OR bottle immediately after the diacetyl rest and lager in the bottle. Either way, I'll have a yeast sediment and have to pour carefully, so I'll just settle for a little extra hop and protein sediment and little extra care in pouring. And that way, I won't sacrifice a fermenter and a temp controlled chamber for such a lengthy period. Those 10 weeks really screwed up my pipeline!
I would argue that was the reason it didn't carb up well. The reason it didn't carb up well is that you underprimed.

When you use a priming calculator, you don't use the temperature that the beer is at currently. You use the highest temperature the beer was at during/after fermentation. The reason is simple when you think about it- co2 is only produced when fermentation is happening, not during storage. If the beer was at 60 degrees (or more) during the diacetyl rest, much more co2 would have disipated than if the beer was at 50 degrees the whole time. Once the beer is lagered, it certainly won't "gain more" co2.

So, for lagers, add the correct amount of priming sugar- generally about 4-5 ounces in a five gallon batch.

You need to prime with the correct amount of priming sugar- approximately 4-5 ounces for 5 gallons.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2011, 02:04 PM   #9
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,194
Liked 4505 Times on 3276 Posts
Likes Given: 883

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennisim View Post
For lagers, do you D-rest, then transfer to secondary, then bring down to 35 or do you D-rest, bring down to 35, then transfer to secondary??
-Matt
I also do the diacetyl rest, then rack and begin lagering.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2011, 02:09 PM   #10
CPooley4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin
Posts: 393
Liked 14 Times on 8 Posts

Default

From what I understand you should use the highest temp the beer was at during fermentation for calculating the amount of priming sugar to use. I agree with Yooper, sounds like it was more than likely a calculation problem and not a yeast problem. I've crash cooled lagers and bottled after the lagering period with no yeast/carbonation issues.

__________________
CP's Brew Workbook

If you're considering buying brewing software do yourself a favor and download my Brew Chart/Workbook first. You may not need to spend that money.

I like beer math!
CPooley4 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ramping up fermentation temps? CharlosCarlies Fermentation & Yeast 8 08-31-2009 05:54 PM
Truncated Lagering...Bottle Lagering? Evan! General Techniques 12 05-17-2009 02:02 AM
Ramping fast with HERMS? You? Yorg Equipment/Sanitation 11 05-03-2009 12:39 PM
Ramping a yeast starter (revisited) Dycokac General Techniques 6 12-28-2007 05:02 PM
Yeast Ramping Procedure? Khirsah17 General Techniques 4 12-24-2007 12:17 AM