berliner weisse - which brett?

there was a recent club judging here on sour beers and a berliner weisse won. i was so impressed that i want to make some. i got his recipe. it is an extract using brett C. brett C is generally seasonal and our local brew shop won't have it until spring. it is available by mail from a few suppliers, but shipping on ice packs by 2 day or overnight is a pain.
the local store does have brett B. the guy who gave me the recipe said he thought B would work, although it would have a slightly different profile.
should i go with the easy route and use B?

Doesn't this style use Lactobacillus?

arturo7 said:

Doesn't this style use Lactobacillus?

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That was my understanding too, and I went with the lacto from Wyeast for my first BW which is conditioning as we speak.

I did however come across this Wyeast private collection Berliner Weisse blend which includes lacto, brett, and German ale yeast:

Wyeast 3191-PC Berliner-Weisse Blend
Beer Styles: Lambics, Geuze, Fruit Lambic, Flanders Red Ale
Profile: This blend includes a German ale strain with low ester formation and a dry, crisp finish. The Lactobacillus included produces moderate levels of acidity. The unique Brettanomyces strain imparts a critical earthy characteristic that is indicative of a true Berliner Weisse. When this blend is used, expect a slow start to fermentation as the yeast and bacteria in the blend is balanced to allow proper acid production. It generally requires 3-6 months of aging to fully develop flavor characteristics. Use this blend with worts containing extremely low hopping rates.

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I'd love to hear if anyone has experience with this variety.

BillyBroas said:

That was my understanding too, and I went with the lacto from Wyeast for my first BW which is conditioning as we speak.

I did however come across this Wyeast private collection Berliner Weisse blend which includes lacto, brett, and German ale yeast:


I'd love to hear if anyone has experience with this variety.

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this recipe just uses brett C and about 2 oz of lactic acid added at bottling time for a 5 gallon batch. (then ale yeast added just for bottle priming.)

i'm curious about the combo yeast pack, but i'm sticking close to this recipe for my first one. everyone there, including several BJCP judges claimed it was the closest to authentic BW they had tried.
i think the private collection is seasonal anyway.

Curious as to how many of the judges have actually been to Berlin...

No Brett should touch a Berliner. Lacto and a German ale yeast is all you need

Yep, Brett in a Berliner Weisse is just wrong. Completely out of style.

I did one 2 weeks ago with just Lacto and S-05, it was all I had on hand. Smelled it last night and it is coming along real nice.

mkling said:

Yep, Brett in a Berliner Weisse is just wrong. Completely out of style.

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It actually is an acceptable part of the style (ever had Schultheiss?), although I'm not sure that there are still any commercial breweries in Berlin that still use it. The BJCP agrees as well "A mild Brettanomyces aroma may be present."

Doing a primary with Brett C will make for a pretty clean beer with just a hint of funk/fruit. I could certainly see that working well.

My personal preference is for pitching Lacto along with a attenuative ale yeast (I like US-05) in primary followed by some bottle dregs with Brett/Lacto/Pedio a few days later. In such a small beer (espcially mashing in the 140s) there isn't much left over for the other bugs to eat, but they smooth out the flavor and add some complexity to what is an otherwise simple beer.

I just don't like Brett in my Berliners. Yes, the beers are really simple and not all that complex, but that's exactly what I want. They are nice simple recipes with very little thought involved.

50% pils and wheat
Mash hop with something noble-esque
Lacto and clean ale yeast
Time

Love it. My favorite style

dirty_martini said:

I just don't like Brett in my Berliners. Yes, the beers are really simple and not all that complex, but that's exactly what I want. They are nice simple recipes with very little thought involved.

50% pils and wheat
Mash hop with something noble-esque
Lacto and clean ale yeast
Time

Love it. My favorite style

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If that is how you like your Berliner Weisse that's fine, but it doesn't mean everyone wants the same.

The point is that the OP had a beer that he liked and wants to recreate, who cares if it is "to style"?

To the OP, you can get White Labs Brett C year round. Brett B tends to have more of the "classic" Brett aromas (horse blanket etc...) even when used as 100%. Russian River does a great beer with Brett B/L and lacto called Sanctification, so your results could still be great, but they would most likely be too Bretty to win a contest as a Berliner.

Oldsock said:

If that is how you like your Berliner Weisse that's fine, but it doesn't mean everyone wants the same.

The point is that the OP had a beer that he liked and wants to recreate, who cares if it is "to style"?

To the OP, you can get White Labs Brett C year round. Brett B tends to have more of the "classic" Brett aromas (horse blanket etc...) even when used as 100%. Russian River does a great beer with Brett B/L and lacto called Sanctification, so your results could still be great, but they would most likely be too Bretty to win a contest as a Berliner.

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Great response.

Oldsock said:

If that is how you like your Berliner Weisse that's fine, but it doesn't mean everyone wants the same.

The point is that the OP had a beer that he liked and wants to recreate, who cares if it is "to style"?

To the OP, you can get White Labs Brett C year round. Brett B tends to have more of the "classic" Brett aromas (horse blanket etc...) even when used as 100%. Russian River does a great beer with Brett B/L and lacto called Sanctification, so your results could still be great, but they would most likely be too Bretty to win a contest as a Berliner.

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No worries. I wasn't implying it's the only way, and I'm not a big to style guy. If he wants to use Brett, I would just stick with C. I don't think B or L just have enough to work with to really develop. Just too subtle for their characteristics IMO.

I myself am brewing a beer on the vein of sanctification soon. I was just at RR drinking a lot of it. It's almost like an imperial Berliner with some funk. Awesome.