Yet another where do I start with electric thread

[runningweird]

Okay, so I just killed one of the two propane tanks I had filled less than a week ago, and I only got 5 batches out of it.
I have been eyeing the electric breaker box in my garage which comes off of the main box in the basement. The breaker downstairs is 240v 60 amp and leads to the box outside which has room for at least one 240v breaker for brewing and maybe more. I can rearrange the garage so I could brew just a few feet from the breaker box if need be.

What would be the best way to jump into brewing electric in that scenario be?
Can I wire an outlet directly into the breaker panel or should I add another step like the spa panel option I have seen?
I just acquired two Omega PIDs to play with(which I will need to find wiring info for) and can source some SSR’s from ebay for cheap.
I have a keggle that I can convert to electric and a 10 gallon igloo mash tun with false bottom that I plan on continuing to use as a mash tun until I can get another keg to convert. I would prefer to go with a HERMS system to avoid the possibility of burning the wort.

I want to be able to set the desired temperature on the mash and then be able to walk away, the same with the BK but don’t need such full automation that the system will activate pumps - I enjoy brewing and want to be part of it but I dislike using propane.
I know this is disjointed and my terminology is probably off, I am just starting to obsess about electric brewing and as such I am not completely up on the lingo.

I have been following this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/simple-electric-build-pros-276477/
And have been reading through the build posts in electric brewing and has answered some questions but I think I need some hand holding to get me through this.

Cheers, Ian

 

[hillhousesawdustco]

First off you need to find a way to add GFCI protection to either your 60amp circuit or whatever you put in new. The spa panel is used a lot here because it is (somehow) cheaper to get a spa panel with a built-in 50amp gfci breaker than it is to just purchase a 30/50/60amp gfci breaker for your breaker box.

As far as the PIDs/SSRs/Wiring goes, look around for PJ's wiring diagrams. The wiring might be a little intimidating but it really is not all that difficult. G'luck!

 

[runningweird]

wow, why would the entire thing be cheaper than a simple breaker?

 

[runningweird]

found this, will it work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-2-P...ansformers&hash=item25689495d7#ht_1119wt_1270

 

[milldoggy]

Breakers are not universal, that may not fit your panel. The spa panel is around 49 dollars and a 50 amp breaker is like 10-20.

Check out Kals, TheElectricBrewery.com. I build my panel following his directions and love it. I would leave out the volt and amp meter. You could also exclude the mash pid and pump controls, but they really dont cost that much.

If you ever think you will go larger than 20 gallons, wire everything to handle 50 amps.

 

[runningweird]

I think if I ever make more than 20 gallons I will be brewing with a huge group of people . I do like to overbuild and be prepared though. 50 amps it is.

 

[wilserbrewer]

here is a video of 2000w five gallon boil. With only 2000w you will need a bit of patience. The upside of low wattage kettles is that you can walk away and come back to a boil without fear of boilover. With only 2000w you need to have time to relax and be patient...watching and waiting for a boil is not fun...but if you can plan to have the time and do other things while brewing it will work fine...

The spreadsheet has % efficiency variables that one can play with to account for thermal loss. It has also been found quite accurate in its time estimates by those of us that have used it over the years in our designs.

Speaking of designs, I'm the guy who did the Countertop Brutus 20. I run my 2KW kettle at 80% with 4.5 - 5 gal and see a very good, rolling boil. Here's an old vid of mine - 5 gal of wort with 2KW at 100%. A quite vigorous boil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV8t5iBiaEA

 

[Yooper]

I have an HLT with a 5500 w element and a BK with a 4500 w element. They are made out of kegs. I still use my old Igloo cooler for the MLT! I have a copper HEX coil (my old immersion chiller) so I have a HERMS, and a stirrer in the HLT. I have two March pumps so I have a single tier sculpture.

I love the size I have because I can do a 5 gallon batch or a 12 gallon batch! The elements I have can do it without any problem. It's also fast to ramp up to temperatures, if you're doing a step mash or ramping to mash-out.

My friend on the forum, lschiavo, built my control panel for me, and also my HLT. He would be able to answer specifics, but I know we did a spa panel (cheaper, like mentioned) with a 50 amp breaker. Here is a picture:



I like having a bit more "oomph" than needed because I don't usually need all that power, but I can run the HLT, BK, both pumps, etc and not worry about the draw.

 

[runningweird]

I have an HLT with a 5500 w element and a BK with a 4500 w element. They are made out of kegs. I still use my old Igloo cooler for the MLT! I have a copper HEX coil (my old immersion chiller) so I have a HERMS, and a stirrer in the HLT. I have two March pumps so I have a single tier sculpture.

I love the size I have because I can do a 5 gallon batch or a 12 gallon batch! The elements I have can do it without any problem. It's also fast to ramp up to temperatures, if you're doing a step mash or ramping to mash-out.

My friend on the forum, lschiavo, built my control panel for me, and also my HLT. He would be able to answer specifics, but I know we did a spa panel (cheaper, like mentioned) with a 50 amp breaker. Here is a picture:



I like having a bit more "oomph" than needed because I don't usually need all that power, but I can run the HLT, BK, both pumps, etc and not worry about the draw.

One of these please! From what I have gathered the control panel can be pricey no?

 

[Yooper]

One of these please! From what I have gathered the control panel can be pricey no?

Yeah- it can be. I have a PID that I 'recycled' from my last control panel, but I still think the parts were expensive. I have a parts list somewhere but I think it was in the neighborhood of $350 or so to build it. I can ask my friend how much it cost to build, as he did it for me (no labor charge, he worked for beer!) and I simply don't remember how much I paid for the parts.

 

[runningweird]

Yeah- it can be. I have a PID that I 'recycled' from my last control panel, but I still think the parts were expensive. I have a parts list somewhere but I think it was in the neighborhood of $350 or so to build it. I can ask my friend how much it cost to build, as he did it for me (no labor charge, he worked for beer!) and I simply don't remember how much I paid for the parts.

yes if you could please ask about the total cost, any chance of taking a look at that parts list?

I will be building mine I think, I work for beer but its probably best I don't take my payment whilst toiling over electrical work.

I feel like I can probably get the price down by getting stuff bit by bit from fleabay.

I may also have to try to build a stand, since I don't think my wooden work table would mix well with brewing.

 

[Yooper]

yes if you could please ask about the total cost, any chance of taking a look at that parts list?

I sent him a PM so he could respond. I'm pretty sure he would have the details in his computer, if not his engineering brain. He's a detail-oriented person and could give you the specifics in short order.

I had an old CP with a PID for the BK and a Johnson Controller for the HLT separate from the CP. I only had one pump at that time, and the CP was really small.

I like this so much better, and it works perfectly for me.

By the way, if you look at my stand- it's just rack shelving. I used it "as is" for a while, and then the same friend just this fall cut it down a bit and we made it a one tier, instead of two tier. It's not really pretty, but it's functional and cheap! The lawnmower wheels were purchased at Ace hardware.

 

[lschiavo]

I just saw the pm. I do still have a list somewhere but it's not really complete as we reused some parts.

I actually just finished a 50A panel that I have been helping another member with. We really tried to keep cost down while still using good componenents. I think it turned out pretty well. I hope to post some info in the next few days on that build along with a linked parts list. I will let you know here when I get it posted.

 

[runningweird]

so if I had two PID's I won't need to scavenge my temp controller then? one PID for BK and one for HLT right?

 

[runningweird]

alright then, I'll start looking for heating elements then.

Low density or not for this? I know for a rims system you want ultra low density to avoid scorching but with this would it matter?

 

[Yooper]

alright then, I'll start looking for heating elements then.

Low density or not for this? I know for a rims system you want ultra low density to avoid scorching but with this would it matter?

I would say yes you want low density, but..................I just found out last week that I thought I had a low density for my BK, but I do not. Apparently we talked about it, and I got the "regular" but promptly forgot!

Anyway, I have no issues at all with scorching or anything sticking to the element!

 

[lschiavo]

alright then, I'll start looking for heating elements then.

Low density or not for this? I know for a rims system you want ultra low density to avoid scorching but with this would it matter?

I have been using PWM circuits for boil controls. Cheaper than a PID if you don't mind a bit of soldering.

I am just finishing up my boil control and haven't boiled yet with an element. Yoopers element is standard density. She hasn't had problems with scorching as far as I know.

Edit...yeah what she said...

 

[runningweird]

I already have two omega PIDs that I want to try to use, I have soldered a bit but nothing extensive - just fixing small broken boards and other stuff.

so a low density element is ideal then? although I take it normal elements are cheaper.

 

[milldoggy]

Thi is what I use. The camco is popular and you can dry fire it



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BPG4LI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[runningweird]

your link does not work.

 

[milldoggy]

Try now or just search for camco 5500 ulwd

 

[lschiavo]

Thi is what I use. The camco is popular and you can dry fire it

Video Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BPG4LI?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1

The dry fire sounds like a good feature. Does anyone know if the nut and threads are steel on these? I weld my elements to a junction box and have noticed some are brass.

 

[milldoggy]

They look like steel, but the could be nickel covered brass. I used a 2 gang box and jb welded a cover like Kal did and zero leaks after 15 batchs.

 

[zeus53219]

I use 2 5500w camco ultra low watt density elements, 1 for the HLT, and 1 for the boil, along with a couple of these contactors and SSRs.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/contactors-e-brew-heating-elements-273489/

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

so if I had two PID's I won't need to scavenge my temp controller then? one PID for BK and one for HLT right?

Your mash PID can go on temperature, like a normal PID.

Your BK one you need it to be able to do 'duty cycle'... i.e. set the period to 1 sec, and have it on 100% of that when approaching boil, then you lower to 65% or so once that is reached to maintain a nice boil.. this does not even have to be a PID, but it makes it simple...

you may want something for your HLT... could be as simple as a mechanical thermostat or a ranco/johnson, or a PID.. a recirc pump and a PID make the most stable and accurate..

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

The other thing you want is an E-Stop button on your panel that anyone can easily identify as what to hit or throw a large object at. This should disengage all 120/240 leaving the control panel and be really fail-safe....... and locat you control panel far enough away that the hose on your pump output wont spray it when it flies out of the kettle, LOL...

 

[runningweird]

The other thing you want is an E-Stop button on your panel that anyone can easily identify as what to hit or throw a large object at. This should disengage all 120/240 leaving the control panel and be really fail-safe....... and locat you control panel far enough away that the hose on your pump output wont spray it when it flies out of the kettle, LOL...

I saw that video. funny.

also I will have to read up on what my PID's will do - need to find the manuals online.

 

[lschiavo]

runningweird,

I posted my latest project here. Maybe it will be of some help to you.

 

[runningweird]

your parts list doesn't work

 

[lschiavo]

Figures, first time I tried to share a file. Try again I think I fixed it.