Yet another bottle carbing question.....

[wstehling]

I'm familiar with all of Revvy's posts related to bottle carbonation and time, patience, etc. and I subscribe to that.

This is batch #13 and all previous batches have been carb'd nicely.

However, I have a vexxing problem with a batch that has me befuddled because it doesn't seem to me that the physics of CO2 absorption are being adhered to. Hoping somebody can explain this.

Brewed an American Wheat:
1.046 OG
1.009 FG
US-05 with 1.5L 2-step starter, 2nd gen from previous batch
Nice strong ferment, no issues.

Primary 2 weeks then bottled, no secondary.
Bottled 3 weeks ago with 159g of Corn sugar for 5.25L batch.
Sugar solution 1/2 added to bottom of bottling bucket then siphoned onto.
2nd 1/2 added midway through siphon.
gently stirred when done to ensure good mixture.



I normally sample a single beer, chilled for 24 hrs at 5 day intervals.
Day 5, very small fizz upon opening, no carb in beer at all, not unexpected
Day 10 - identical to day 5; not terribly unexpected
Day 15 - identical to day 5; small question mark over my head
Day 20 - identical to day 5; wtf

So now i'm pissed. I decide i'll crack open 2 warm beers out of the closet and drop in a little dry yeast as a small test case. Well I open the warm beer and it is fully carb'd, big fizz, bubbles coming up out of the solution and I immediately poured it into a cold glass, added some ice and drank it. It was really good.

My understanding of C02 is that it is supposed to dissolve into the liquid at colder temps, but my cold beers are NOT carb'd at all. How on earth is my warm 78 degree beer fully carb'd? Have the magnetic poles flipped, sunspots, rogue neutrinos? Somebody please explain how hot beer is carb'd and cold beer is not from the same batch.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

It is likely that your yeast is not very healthy at bottling time, therefore it is not able to carbonate the beer.

Try using liquid yeast. All my beers are fully carbed in 4 days from bottle time.

 

[ColoHox]

You added new yeast to the warm beers right, then allowed them some additional time to carb? And the cold beers have the original yeast?

It sure is strange, as both dry and liquid yeast (normally) work fine for this process, but maybe your yeast really was tuckered out. If your yeast is bad, no time in the fridge will improve the carbonation.

 

[wstehling]

I only sprinkled a little yeast into 2 bottles after I had found that the warm beers are carb'd. They've only had less than 1 day to do anything so far so they've not been opened yet.
I only mentioned this part of it because it was when I opened one warm to sprinkle the dry yeast, it was fully carb'd.

The cold beer has the original yeast. Have chilled a newly sprinkled one yet, too soon.

 

[ColoHox]

So did all the bottles spend time in a warm place to carb? Or just some? I am a little confused by your posts.

Additional yeast won't do anything in a fully carbed beer. If the cold bottles were never warm, warming them up should do the trick.

 

[hunter_le five]

Why did you add the sugar solution to the bottling bucket in two stages? It seems to me that this would cause an uneven distribution of priming sugar in the bottles.

It is likely that your yeast is not very healthy at bottling time, therefore it is not able to carbonate the beer.

Try using liquid yeast. All my beers are fully carbed in 4 days from bottle time.

What does liquid vs dry yeast have to do with this??? The beer was only 2 weeks old at bottling time, and S-05 is a perfectly good yeast. He even made a starter and it fermented the beer just fine.

 

[wstehling]

I always add in 2 stages under the assumption it provides better mixing. then gently stir to further mix. Has worked 12 previous times just fine so seriously doubt its the root of this crazy issue.

 

[CUrchin]

Confused what liquid vs dry has to do with carbing? I use almost all dry yeast and don't have problems.

Storage temp about 70 degrees?
Are your sure you used corn sugar and no something else like maltodextrin?

 

[wstehling]

So did all the bottles spend time in a warm place to carb? Or just some? I am a little confused by your posts.

Additional yeast won't do anything in a fully carbed beer. If the cold bottles were never warm, warming them up should do the trick.

I'll try to clarify:

ALL beers were carbed for 20 days at about 77F.
At my 5 day interval checks, i put one in the fridge and let it chill 24 hours, then open it. There has been a small fizz and no carb, no head, no bubbles in solution, nothing, almost like i forgot to add sugar.

So at day 20 when no beers have carb'd, i decided to do a test case and add dry yeast to 2 bottles only. So i pull out a 77F beer from the closet and open and voila, it is carb'd very nicely. So I halt the yeast experiment. I say WTF, then take a second beer from the closet and put it in the fridge for 24 hours, next day open it and voila, no carb, none.

Only at this point did I proceed with my 2 bottle dry yeast addition test case.
Prob should have left out the dry yeast experiment, it's just adding confusion.
Hope that clarifies.

 

[wstehling]

Just to make this easier, ignore the dry yeast experiment I mentioned, it's irrelevant other than it is what caused me to open a warm beer and discover the warm beer is very nicely carb'd.

The carb'ing on this batch is working 180 degrees opposite the way it's supposed to. Unless I need to give a week or something for the CO2 to dissolve into solution, which I've never had to do, 24 hrs has always sufficed.

 

[hunter_le five]

I always add in 2 stages under the assumption it provides better mixing. then gently stir to further mix. Has worked 12 previous times just fine so seriously doubt its the root of this crazy issue.

Rereading your OP, I think I may have misunderstood what you meant.

You mean you added the 2nd 1/2 of the sugar halfway through siphoning into the bottling bucket, not halfway through siphoning into the bottles, correct?

 

[wstehling]

Rereading your OP, I think I may have misunderstood what you meant.

You mean you added the 2nd 1/2 of the sugar halfway through siphoning into the bottling bucket, not halfway through siphoning into the bottles, correct?

That is correct.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

You only need to add the sugar solution to the bottling bucket prior to siphoning. The sugar will naturally disperse evenly without stirring.

If the yeast you are using is extremely flocculant, then maybe the yeast is mostly out of suspension therefore creating the problem.

Come to think of it, I have lately been using very poorly flocculating yeast thereby leaving excessive yeast ready to go in the bottle giving me very short carb times.

Just thinking....

 

[hunter_le five]

S-05 is a fairly low-flocc yeast. After only 2 weeks in primary I seriously doubt that's the problem.

 

[gwashingk]

How did the yeast experiment go? Did adding new yeast to those two bottles improve carbonation when the beer is cold?

I have a beer that is not well carbed, after refrigerating, when it certainly should be. I will have to check to see if the warm bottles are carbed at all.