Yeast usage in a a Braggot

[Echo2112]

I am brewing a partial grain braggot today. Going to be a pretty big one, and I am not sure if I am going the right way on the yeast.

I took an all grain recipe into my LHBS, talked it over with the group there to convert it to a mini mash. Pretty happy with that part. I was going to go with a mead yeast from White labs, the WLP720 Sweet Mead yeast. It is supposed to handle ABV to 15%, which Beer Smith says I am not going to hit, but will leave some residual sweetness.

The LHBS folks felt I should go with the WLP099 Super High Gravity. They also recommended pitch multiple tubes with some nutrient to get the fermentation rolling quickly. (I know, I should make a starter) Now I trust these guys, but I am not sure that this is the right way to go with the yeast, the White Labs description says it produces ester characters that increase with gravity, with Malt characters dominating at lower gravities.

It's a braggot. I want the malt, but I want the honey to come through on this, both in aroma and in the palette. I am concerned that the WLP099 in this concentration is going to go to town on the sugars, and get rid of the honey. I am also worried about the esters bit. Not super familiar with what that means for taste, but from what I have read, it can be good, or bad, depending on the beer.

So do I go back to my original plan and get some of the Sweet mead yeast, or go with what I have in inventory, and then when i rack to secondary, pitch in some more honey to give me that flavor and sweetness?

 

[jmiracle]

I've heard clean ale yeasts for braggots, don't you want like a beer ABV? That sweet mead yeast would crank out at like a wine ABV wouldn't it?

 

[Echo2112]

I am not sure how the yeasts would give me different ABV's. The WLP099 Super High Gravity is supposed to go as high as 25% ABV, the sweet mead is supposed to go to 15%. I am more worried about the attenuation and what kind of residual sugars are going to be left behind. I want some sweetness and honey flavor, since a braggot is supposed to be a blending of ale and mead. I am worried that the Ale yeast is going to ape on all that sugar and not leave any of the "sweet" behind.

 

[jmiracle]

I'm not sure what you're saying, I think the wine yeast is going to chew up more of the sugar than an ale yeast will (since it will produce more alcohol meaning it ate more sugar), if you want to leave sweetness behind I'd probably grab an ale yeast that will give you maybe 8 or 9% alcohol. Since you don't want esters just go clean WLP 001 or some kind of California Ale yeast.

I think if you use a mead yeast you're basically going to end up with a mead, not a mead/beer mix. I could be wrong though.

 

[lordbeermestrength]

Even with WLP099 you will get plenty of malt flavors, IF you used enough in the recipe. Also you shouldn't have to worry too much about yeast nutrients when doing a braggot. Barley malt has enough nutrients to keep your yeast happy.

I'd go with an ale yeast. Depending on how much honey you use you will not get anything other than higher alcohol and a lighter beer. When you say you want the honey flavor to come through, that won't happen much at all unless you have a honey like raspberry or orange blossom. Clover and wildflower won't leave much 'flavor' to speak of.

 

[Echo2112]

I guess I need to read up more. I figured since the beer yeast I have now is for high gravity ales, and is supposed to be able to go as high as 25% ABV, it will convert more sugars than the mead yeast, which is supposed to top out at 15% ABV.

My understanding was that the higher the ABV, the more sugars that were converted to alcohol and CO2 by the yeast, leaving less sugar behind, which is where the sweet flavor comes from.

 

[Echo2112]

Even with WLP099 you will get plenty of malt flavors, IF you used enough in the recipe. Also you shouldn't have to worry too much about yeast nutrients when doing a braggot. Barley malt has enough nutrients to keep your yeast happy.

I'd go with an ale yeast. Depending on how much honey you use you will not get anything other than higher alcohol and a lighter beer. When you say you want the honey flavor to come through, that won't happen much at all unless you have a honey like raspberry or orange blossom. Clover and wildflower won't leave much 'flavor' to speak of.

I figured I would get the malt part, I want to be able to hang on to the mead side of it as well.

This is the recipe I am brewing

7 lbs Extra Pale Extract
7 lbs Clover Honey
1.5 lbs 2 Row Pale
1 lb Crystal 40
.5 lb Honey Malt
.5 Oats
.5 Special Roast
3 oz Cascade
1 oz Fuggles
1 oz Challenger
3 Tubes WLP 099 Super High Gravity
Fermax Yeast Booster

Going to do a 45 min steep with the grains, sparge with 2 qts water, bring up temp to get the wort hot enough for the honey and extract, then pitch the Cascade and flame on. Fuggles added after 45min, Challenger at the last 5 min.

The yeast is what the LHBS said to go with, and they told me to add the fermax since the yeast was just hitting it's use by date.

 

[jmiracle]

Well yeah I wouldn't use a yeast that went to 25% I've never even heard of an "ale" yeast that will go that high, that's like twice as potent as wine!

I was just talking about regular ole Cal ale yeast, Promash is spitting an OG of 1.128 and an FG of 1.012, I'm not sure if that's the high end of the attenuation or not. I'd imagine if you can get that with regular ale yeast then turbo yeast might bring down closer to or below 1.000 which would definitely be a thin, wine-like beverage (it would probably still be good but I doubt it'd be malty and sweet).

Also not to be critical but are you mashing the grains at a specific temperature? You used the word "steep" which I think as just letting the grains be in hot water under 1.70, whereas mashing would be adding specific amounts of water to hold the grains at a certain temp for usually an hour.

 

[Moonshae]

If the amount of sugar doesn't exceed the alcohol tolerance of the yeast, any yeast will ferment all available sugars. The mead yeast will be fine, as will an ale yeast. I used Nottingham for my braggot. It finished at 1.008 and still has a sweet feel (but not cloying).

If you want a lot of honey flavor, put it right in the primary; don't boil it. heating honey drives off all the aromatics.