yeast starter or not?

[mattne421]

just received my belgian wit from midwest and i ordered the wyeast smack pack but they "upgraded" my order to the white labs vial. ive never used white labs and usually just pitch my smack pack right in. This is an extract kit with a predicted OG from 1.042-1.046. ive never made a starter and am not to comfortable in the process. The only time i have free to brew is tomorrow so i dont really have much time. Should i be fine pitching the tube in or should i run out to the LHBS and pick up supplies for a starter. (I live about 45 minutes from the closest LHBS.) I understand this is a highly debated topic and would like to know will i be able to reach my FG around 1.011 from just pitching. Thanks.

 

[D_Nyholm]

I'm new to this but never had any problems pitching the vial right in. I may have underpitched but I didn't notice anything off and was easily able to get to the predicted FG.

I have made starters, but only for bigger beers, stuff over 1.055 or so or when reusing washed yeast.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

i always make starters when using liquid. search the topic on these HBT forums, there's a lot on the 'starter vs. no starter' debate here.

 

[BamaRooster]

At this gravity 1.042-1.046 you would need to pitch a 1 liter starter or 1.5 vials of yeast to be with in the recommended cell count. But your SG is relatively low and your not under pitching by much. You might have a slightly more pronounced esters in the way of fruity flavors, but it would probably come out fine. Pitching a starter would have a better chance of making a better product, but is it worth it to drive 1.5 hours?

Keep your fermenting temps low and you will probably be ok.

 

[chickypad]

You will be able to get away with it with a beer of that gravity, but you really should learn to make starters. It's quite simple- much easier than brewing beer! Unless you're doing a huge starter and want to let it go all the way to completion, making one the night before and pitching the whole thing is perfect. You probably don't even need any equipment - do you have a little DME on hand, a large jar or jug, and some tin foil? If so you are good.

 

[BamaRooster]

i always make starters when using liquid. search the topic on these HBT forums, there's a lot on the 'starter vs. no starter' debate here.

Yes, I always pitch starters with liquid yeast as well.

 

[homebrewdad]

Starters sound scary and complicated, but they are way easier than making even an extract kit. Boil a little DME in a couple of cups of water. Cool, pitch yeast. Voila, a starter.

 

[True_Sycko]

Yep i was really nervous at first. I made my first starter last night for Saturdays brew session. I used 3 ounces DME and 1 quart of water. I would have made a little bigger one but I was using a 2 quart growler.

 

[BamaRooster]

that seems a little small to me for a starter. You want to have the gravity of your starter at around 1.040. You are trying to multiply the yeast not put them into full bore fermentation. I use the ratio of 1gram of DME to 10 ML of water. I also use a stir plate which reduces the volume requirement and my typical starter for beers ranging between 1.046 and 1.058 are 1-1.5 liters. With out a stir plate the volume would need to be increased. Here is a good starter calculator https://www.mrmalty.com

 

[True_Sycko]

Ill have to take a look at that. That was what the LHBS recommended to do. So Is this going to be and should I pick up some new yeast?

 

[BamaRooster]

Ill have to take a look at that. That was what the LHBS recommended to do. So Is this going to be and should I pick up some new yeast?

Your probably fine as long as it is not a high gravity beer......go for it!! :rockin:

 

[spokaniac]

can you use something like a 2 liter bottle for the starter, properly sanitized of course

 

[True_Sycko]

Your probably fine as long as it is not a high gravity beer......go for it!! :rockin:

Its the Northern Brewer two hearted clone. OG is around 1064.

 

[BamaRooster]

Its the Northern Brewer two hearted clone. OG is around 1064.

At that gravity Mr. Malty says you would need 2.5 liters of starter using 1 vial of liquid yeast. Your starter is less than half of what you will need. You could go to the LHBS and pick up another vial and pitch it with your starter and that would workout just about right or you could decant the starter you made when it finishes and then step up the starter by adding it to a new starter and letting it grow more yeast....I would shoot for about 1.6 liters of starter for your next step (this is a WAG or maybe an educated WAG)

 

[BamaRooster]

can you use something like a 2 liter bottle for the starter, properly sanitized of course

I can't see why that would not work, but make sure you don't seal the cap. Cover the top with sanitized tin foil, you want the starter to breath.

 

[spokaniac]

OK. According to Mr Malty with my yeast, OG and all, I should use 1.4 liter starter.

With an extract batch would I top off the FV to 5 gallons then add the 1.4 liters or pitch that then top off to 5 gallons? Or does it really matter? I'm using a 6.5 gal carboy for my FV.

 

[D_Nyholm]

Oh boy, i guess my 1 liter erlenmeyer (sp?) Flask isn't enough for most starters. Time to use my growlers instead?

 

[atom]

Oh boy, i guess my 1 liter erlenmeyer (sp?) Flask isn't enough for most starters. Time to use my growlers instead?

yeah. i regret getting one... oh well...it's a nice decoration..

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

OK. According to Mr Malty with my yeast, OG and all, I should use 1.4 liter starter.

With an extract batch would I top off the FV to 5 gallons then add the 1.4 liters or pitch that then top off to 5 gallons? Or does it really matter? I'm using a 6.5 gal carboy for my FV.

ferment your starter all the way out, cold crash, decant the starter beer and pitch just the slurry.

Oh boy, i guess my 1 liter erlenmeyer (sp?) Flask isn't enough for most starters. Time to use my growlers instead?

growlers are ~2L, i'd go with a 1 gal jug. many starters are 2+ L, especially when making lager beers, and you need headspace.

 

[mattne421]

could i use a 1 gal carboy and be fine? i would still have to go drive to the LHBS for some DME btw.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

could i use a 1 gal carboy and be fine? i would still have to go drive to the LHBS for some DME btw.

sure, i use 1 gal jugs for most of my starters.

 

[True_Sycko]

I am using S-05 yeast. What would happen if I just pitched what I have. I know Its not ideal. Would it just lag to start?

Sorry for all the questions.

 

[D_Nyholm]

Where to get a 1 gallon jug? I don't drink that wine and don't remember seeing any of those jugs in the grocery stor? Cider?

 

[Henry22]

I sanitized a one gallon lipton green tea plastic jug my roommate just finished and at first I was nervous because there wasn't much of a krausen but everytime I shook it the CO2 would escape out of the aluminum foil.

My fears were put to rest after I pitched it yesterday into a patersbier recipe and today walked in and the thing is bubbling away. I really wouldnt worry too much about the container you use, as long as it is big enough and sanitized.

 

[chickypad]

I am using S-05 yeast. What would happen if I just pitched what I have. I know Its not ideal. Would it just lag to start?

Sorry for all the questions.

Sycko starters are for liquid yeast. With the S-05 and a 1.064 batch you can get by with 1 packet (mrmalty says 1.1 of the 11g packs).

 

[True_Sycko]

Sycko starters are for liquid yeast. With the S-05 and a 1.064 batch you can get by with 1 packet (mrmalty says 1.1 of the 11g packs).

Oh, poop! Well is it going to hurt anything if I pitch it? You would think the guy at the LHBS would have told me this when I was asking him all the information about the starter with dry yeast...

 

[chickypad]

Oh, poop! Well is it going to hurt anything if I pitch it? You would think the guy at the LHBS would have told me this when I was asking him all the information about the starter with dry yeast...

Sorry, didn't see you already put it in a starter (getting confused which post is whose). Yeah, you'd think the LHBS would have helped you out there.
There are threads on this, as I recall the theoretic concern would be depletion of the reserves that dry yeast already has. It seems other folks think it doesn't hurt anything. Maybe some of the yeast experts can chime in.

If I were you, I'd go ahead and use the starter.

 

[True_Sycko]

Sorry, didn't see you already put it in a starter (getting confused which post is whose). Yeah, you'd think the LHBS would have helped you out there.
There are threads on this, as I recall the theoretic concern would be depletion of the reserves that dry yeast already has. It seems other folks think it doesn't hurt anything. Maybe some of the yeast experts can chime in.

If I were you, I'd go ahead and use the starter.

Thank you for the help and sorry for any confusion. Yea I already made the starter. I guess I will pitch it Saturday then unless someone says absolutely not.

Thanks again!

 

[BamaRooster]

ferment your starter all the way out, cold crash, decant the starter beer and pitch just the slurry.

+1 EXACTLY!!

 

[wolfareno]

Wow, you guys have been teaching me a lot about pitching yeast. I don't think this has been covered, so:

In theory, if I didn't have time for a starter, could I just pitch more vials/packets of yeast to the batch of wort? I know this isn't economical, but would it be better than NOT doing a starter? I plan to make starters for all my future batches, but I was just wondering "what if?" Also, can you add too much yeast?

From what I understand, the starter increases the amount of healthy yeasties, ensures they are strong, and thus makes them each have to work less hard, which basically makes a better beer. Am I getting all this? Is a poorly done starter (OG or volume too low) still better than no starter?

Thanks for entertaining my newb questions.

-Josh

 

[homebrewdad]

Wow, you guys have been teaching me a lot about pitching yeast. I don't think this has been covered, so:

In theory, if I didn't have time for a starter, could I just pitch more vials/packets of yeast to the batch of wort? I know this isn't economical, but would it be better than NOT doing a starter? I plan to make starters for all my future batches, but I was just wondering "what if?" Also, can you add too much yeast?

From what I understand, the starter increases the amount of healthy yeasties, ensures they are strong, and thus makes them each have to work less hard, which basically makes a better beer. Am I getting all this? Is a poorly done starter (OG or volume too low) still better than no starter?

Thanks for entertaining my newb questions.

-Josh

Yep, you can pitch more vials/smack packs to make up the difference. Starters are the way to go if at all possible, though.