Yeast Questions

[agentbud]

1) How do you pronounce Wyeast?
2) Opinions on the best dry yeast alternative to Wyeast 1318?

 

[VikeMan]

1) How do you pronounce Wyeast?

Why-East

2) Opinions on the best dry yeast alternative to Wyeast 1318?

I haven't used a dry strain for a NEIPA, but my guess would be S-04. (I'm assuming NEIPA is what you're contemplating. If not, what style?)

 

[dmtaylor]

Searching my little project sheet (linked below) for "1318" will give you a few ideas, including Lallemand New England, Lallemand Verdant, and Mangrove Jack M66 Hophead. I have never used any of these myself yet; once I do, I will add my experience and opinions to the sheet. My next batch, which will be an English IPA, is going to use Verdant, which comes with high recommendations for British styles, as well as for NEIPAs.

Hope this helps you or somebody out there. It's OK if you don't like it.

YEAST MASTER by yours truly

 

[day_trippr]

^Got the drop on me^

I would have answered "S04 " as well but there are potential new kids on the block that might be worth trying.
The first is sold as a London Ale III, not sure about the second...

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/product-details/lalbrew-verdant-ipa/https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/product-details/lalbrew-new-england/
I found an "IPA Guide" from them as well. Could be handy as it compares a bunch of Lallemand strains...
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp...L-bestpractices-IPA_solutions-ENG-digital.pdf
Cheers!

 

[VikeMan]

The first is sold as a London Ale III, not sure about the second...

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/product-details/lalbrew-verdant-ipa/https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/product-details/lalbrew-new-england/

Is there something in their literature that says either of those strains is "London Ale III?" I haven't seen that.

 

[day_trippr]

Not by them afaik but by their vendors. For example:

https://beermaverick.com/the-comple...A – This is,dry substitution for this strain.
Cheers!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

With Lallemand New England, one may want to take a look at Lallemand's Pitching Rate Calculator - as the recommended pitch rate is about 2x 'normal' rate for a batch.

 

[VikeMan]

Not by them afaik but by their vendors. For example:

https://beermaverick.com/the-comple...A – This is,dry substitution for this strain.

Thanks. I've seen that article. (BTW, he's a blogger, not a vendor.) I also think he doesn't really know, given the way he words it. "This is the only dry substitution for this strain."

 

[agentbud]

Why-East



I haven't used a dry strain for a NEIPA, but my guess would be S-04. (I'm assuming NEIPA is what you're contemplating. If not, what style?)

sorry, I should have mentioned. Yes, for NEIPA. I prefer 1318 but I live in the south and just getting ready for the brutal summer months. Most times I usually switch to a dry kveik but I wanted to find something close to 1318

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Most times I usually switch to a dry kveik but I wanted to find something close to 1318

In which case you want Verdant. It's not quite the same, but close enough.

New England is a Conan derivative but it really hates being dried so you need to watch the cell count, they only guarantee 20% of what's in their other yeast.

Is there something in their literature that says either of those strains is "London Ale III?" I haven't seen that.

James Heffron of Verdant has been pretty open about their yeast that they gave to Lallemand being a repitched derivative of LA III - eg here :
https://www.goodbeerhunting.com/blo...d-distinctive-house-yeasts-of-british-brewing
and he talks about it more in this big interview from 47:25 (or use the transcript feature of Youtube):

 

[VikeMan]

James Heffron of Verdant has been pretty open about their yeast that they gave to Lallemand being a repitched derivative of LA III - eg here :
https://www.goodbeerhunting.com/blo...d-distinctive-house-yeasts-of-british-brewing
and he talks about it more in this big interview from 47:25 (or use the transcript feature of Youtube):

Interesting. Thanks! It sounds like it's genetically distinct, but very close.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Interesting. Thanks! It sounds like it's genetically distinct, but very close.

Well - it's a similar story to the Chico family or the Conan family - or indeed any case where a yeast is being sold as being "THE" yeast from a brewery. There's at least one mutation every time a yeast divides, sometimes it will make no difference and sometimes it will be material. So unless you know they're being taken from eaxactly the same vial, you know that a yeast will never be the same (and that's aside from the examples where eg a yeast lab will only have one member of the multistrain used by a brewery, but will proclaim it as "THE" yeast from that brewery).

People try to make out that WLP001 and Wyeast 1056 are "the same" but for the reasons above they can't be. And in fact we have detailed genetic mapping of the Chico family courtesy of the Dunham lab, so we know that most of the yeast bank versions have lost an entire chromosome compared to the original that went from Siebel to Sierra Nevada, and there's further mutations and crossovers that distinguish eg the US-05/1056 subgroup from the WLP001 subgroup. It'll be similar with the 1318 family.

 

[mac_1103]

There's at least one mutation every time a yeast divides, sometimes it will make no difference and sometimes it will be material. So unless you know they're being taken from eaxactly the same vial, you know that a yeast will never be the same

If the first sentence was literally true then every cell in every vial would be a unique mutant and you would never know exactly what was going to grow out even if you did know that they were taken from the same vial. Of course yeast mutate, but let's not get carried away.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Verdant is an evolved version of 1318. Started out as 1318 in a brewery. It behaves like 1318 in the fermenter. It has qualities of 1318 in the glass. But it adopted non 1318 flavours during its time in the Verdant brewery. Apricot and vanilla. These flavours can be quite pronounced so I don't tend to use it in English beers where it is not disguised unless I want those flavours. It's a great dry yeast for the American styles that use 1318. I like it in porters and other malty beers for the texture it provides. And perhaps the vanilla works. I don't use it in bitters. I'd happily use it in a golden ale with US hops.

 

[TBA]

The low cell count of New England is true. On a recommendation in the forum I have used one pack of Verdant and one pack of New England co-pitched. I have repitched the cake a few times with great results also. Verdant can leave it a little too sweet but adding the New England helps with attenuation. Try it

 

[bwible]

I always said “Why’-Yeast” Accent on the first syllable