Yeast questions

[Cannae216]

Hi all,

I just came back from my LHBS with ingredients for my second brew ever which I plan to start this weekend. I took a recipe for an extract based vanilla bourbon stout that I found in the forums and adapted for what was available at my LHBS and the fact that I am doing a partial (~3.5G) boil...this is what I came up with:

2.0 lbs Oats, flaked
0.5 lbs Crystal 120
0.5 lbs Chocolate
0.5 lbs Roasted barley
0.25 lbs Black (Patent)
6.6 lbs Dark LME
2.2 lbs Dark DME
2.0 oz Northern Brewer (60 min)
2.0 oz Williamette (5 min)
1 pkg White Lab Irish Ale Yeast (WLP004)

After a week in primary, I plan to transfer to a secondary with a vanilla bean, oak cube and bourbon mixture I have soaking right now.

Beer Smith is kicking out an OG of 1.064, which is definitely on the high end of the Oatmeal Stout range. I have read that with OGs above 1.06, sometimes a single package of yeast is not enough. I've also taken a look at the brewersfriend.com yeast calculator, and it seems to suggest 2-3 packages of yeast without a yeast starter.

Based on this, I plan on creating a 2L starter with my one yeast package and a 1/4 lb of the above DME today and let it sit for a couple days. I do not have a stirplate, and so plan on simply leaving it in a foil covered container and doing the 'drive-by shaking' technique...

My questions are:

1) To be on the safe side, should I pick-up another packet of yeast?

2) Is 2 days enough time for a starter without a stir plate to actually do anything?

3) Should I look into getting a stirplate? My LHBS has them but they have a slightly steep price tag ~$80 and I want to make sure the investment is worth it here.

4) Should I also think about adding yeast nutrient to this recipe?

As this is my first non-kit brew, I want to make sure I am pitching enough yeast and appreciate any comments you seasoned vets may have (also happy to get feedback on the recipe in general...)

Many thanks in advance to you all!

 

[CorporateHippie]

For a standard ale (even with an OG of 1.060ish) I find that a 1ltr starter works great. As long as you shake it often enough and have it in a good temperature environment in your home then the yeast should start working within your two day timeframe. Assuming you have an active fermentation in your starter with a little bit of a krausen, just pitch the whole thing into your wort.

A stirplates is a great investment however I would look into building your own as they are not that hard and can be done for a fraction of the cost.

I rarely use yeast nutrient in a recipe but I will often add a very very small amounts to my yeast starters.

One more suggestion I would not pull it out of primary and put it in the secondary in just seven days. I would let it keep going until the krausen drops out. Personally I would probably just stick it away and forget about it until 2 1/2 or three weeks pass.

As far as the recipe goes have you tried punching it into any of the available full recipe calculators out there? I did not do it for you but just off of looking at it and it seems to be a lot of hops for a stout.

 

[Cannae216]

Thanks for the fast reply.

I do have an old PC lying around, and was going to look into building one when I have more time and it is warm enough in the garage to work (SWMBO and all...) so I might hold off as this seems more of a 'nice to have' than a 'must have'.

With regards to not using a secondary, would it be safe to toss in the bourbon mixture into the primary after a week and let it sit, trub and all, for another 2 weeks? I worry that 3 weeks on trub will cause off-flavours?

Agree that the hops are rather high. My LHBS only sells in 2 oz (or larger) packets, so I just included what I had. BeerSmith kicks out 35 IBUs on a 3.5G partial boil, which doesn't seem too high... Also, I figured that it would be good to balance out the high OG with higher bitterness? Maybe this is a logic error on my part... That being said, I was a bit worried that 2 oz of aroma hops would be overpowering in a stout, so I may dial this back a touch...

 

[CorporateHippie]

You can put your mixture into primary if you want to. I know this community is split 50-50 on whether you should use secondary fermentation or not. I sit on the side of using it because I know it adds clarity to my beer. I am safe with my practice and guard against oxidizing.

However, three weeks on trub is absolutely no big deal at all. (period)

I would still suggest leaving it alone for up to three weeks and then transferring with your mixture. The hardest thing to do in homebrewing is also the hardest thing to learn............ patience

 

[IslandLizard]

Regarding your starter. 2 liters of starter wort requires 200 grams of DME (1 DME : 10 Water) not 1/4 pound (114 gr).

Try to swirl it as often as you can. The more it ferments, the less yeast will grow, but unless you have a stir plate you can't prevent that. Make sure that starter container has at least 1 liter of head space (more is better) or you'll lose half the yeast from foaming out the top.

Agree on pitching the whole starter, since it will be very active by then. With a stir plate it's a different process and I would cold crash and decant. Which takes another day.

 

[Cannae216]

Thanks IslandLizard...my quick mental math was off, you are correct - 1/2 lb of DME for my starter.

I did not think about leaving that much headroom, but it makes sense - thanks.

 

[madscientist451]

Your questions in order:
1. Yes, get extra yeast, but get some dried yeast, put in in a ziplock in your refrigerator, It lasts a long time and will come in handy if you brew a batch that for some reason doesn't kick off. Not sure you need to use more than one pack in your stout, if you make a starter that should be fine.
2. Yes, in two days you should be getting some fermentation going and that's better than just dumping the vial (or pack) of liquid yeast in.
3. I'd put getting a stirplate on the back burner, if you are just starting there are a few other things you should get first.
4. The yeast nutrient won't hurt anything, not sure if you really need it.

My 2 cents: Stop doing partial boils and using DME. Just get a 5 gallon cooler from walmart, a cheap valve setup for it, a BIAB bag and a 6 gallon pot. You can do 4 gallon+ batches in your kitchen, with that setup and the money you save on the DME will pay for the new stuff.
I don't like the foil covered container for the starter, but I know a lot of brewers do it like that. Get a glass 1/2 gallon jug from your brewing store along with a stopper and an airlock and use that as a mini carboy for your starter.
You didn't say anything about your fermentation temperature. Do you have a cool place to keep the fermenting beer? WL says the 004 is optimum at 65-68F. Colder than that will take mean longer fermentation time, warmer will go faster but may produce some unwanted flavors. You'll be ok if you are in that range +/- 2degrees or so. Its a good thing to get the wort down to fermenting temperature before you pitch your yeast.
Also your concept of "one week in the primary" is flawed, because you don't know how your fermentation will progress. I'd wait until it was done, then rack to secondary with your bourbon soaked oak and start pulling samples after about 5 days to see what the flavor of the beer is like. You could also remove a portion of the beer after 5 days or a week and leave the rest on the oak for another week or more as an experiment. I agree with corporate hippie about the amount of hops, but since you are doing a partial boil, that can affect your hop utilization and maybe it will come out the way you like it.

 

[Cannae216]

Thanks, madscientist.

Appreciate the input on the DME/partial boils. I eventually want to transition to all grain, but would like to get a few brews down first before going out and purchasing new equipment.

I will look into getting the 1/2 gallon jug. I, too, was somewhat worried about the foil idea as I am fairly anal about sanitation...

With regards to fermentation temperature, I pulled together a fermenting chamber with an old freezer, heating wrap and a basic temperature controller. I will likely be setting the temperature to ~62F for the first few days of active fermentation, then increase to ~66F. I am still getting used to the differentials between the external and internal carboy temperatures (learned that the hardway on my first batch, a weissbier, when I set it to 70F and had a crazy active fermentation...thank goodness for blowoff tubes) but I think this will keep a steady ~68F in the carboy.

I am relying on an icebath to cold crash at the moment, but didn't find this to be a big issue (~25mins). I am looking at getting, or building, an immersion chiller though.

The one week was just a guesstimate, but if I do transfer to a secondary I will wait for gravity to stabilize for 3 days. Although, from the other comments on this thread and from browsing similar threads it seems adding the bourbon mixture directly to the primary after fermentation would work as well...

I will be adjusting the hops downwards on this. I am not a fan of bitter stouts, so will try to get down to the ~30 IBU level.

Thanks again, everyone, for your feedback - love this community.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks IslandLizard...my quick mental math was off, you are correct - 1/2 lb of DME for my starter.

I did not think about leaving that much headroom, but it makes sense - thanks.

In the past I've lost more yeast to the counter than I care for remembering. Every single time, and always during the night.

The worst thing is, you got to build the yeast up again, losing a day at least. Even with a stir plate I had foam outs. That all went away after learned about Fermcap-S. One small drop in the starter wort when boiling. It prevents all foaming and krausen forming. It's a god's end.

As long as you keep the Fermcap in the fridge it will last for years.

A 2 liter flask does not have a lot of headspace when making 2l starters, definitely not enough without a foam arrester. I've used 1 gallon jugs instead, and I still do for larger starters, but the (1.5-2") stir bar gets thrown if the magnets are weak or too far from the bottom. Just something to remember when building your stir plate.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi all,

I just came back from my LHBS with ingredients for my second brew ever which I plan to start this weekend. I took a recipe for an extract based vanilla bourbon stout that I found in the forums and adapted for what was available at my LHBS and the fact that I am doing a partial (~3.5G) boil...this is what I came up with:

2.0 lbs Oats, flaked
0.5 lbs Crystal 120
0.5 lbs Chocolate
0.5 lbs Roasted barley
0.25 lbs Black (Patent)
6.6 lbs Dark LME
2.2 lbs Dark DME
2.0 oz Northern Brewer (60 min)
2.0 oz Williamette (5 min)
1 pkg White Lab Irish Ale Yeast (WLP004)

[...]

Just noticed your oats...
They need to be (mini-)mashed with a pound of 2-row or so. Just adding them to the steeping grains will not extract what you hope for, but instead create a unfermentable starchy mess that remains in your beer.

 

[Cannae216]

Just noticed your oats...
They need to be (mini-)mashed with a pound of 2-row or so. Just adding them to the steeping grains will not extract what you hope for, but instead create a unfermentable starchy mess that remains in your beer.

Any chance you can elaborate on the mini-mash? I've seen quite a few recipes where the oats are simply steeped through a grain bag, or sometimes simply added to the boil and strained off. I was planning on doing 2 grain bags, one for the dark malts another for the oats, but am now second guessing this.

 

[Cannae216]

Quick google search found this: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/PM-OatmealStout.pdf

Presumably the mini-mash would be steps 2-9 in the above? If so, I am guessing after this procedure I would top-up to my pre-boil volume, steep the dark malt, then proceed with the LME/DME as planned?

 

[IslandLizard]

Your questions in order:
1. Yes, get extra yeast, but get some dried yeast, put in in a ziplock in your refrigerator, It lasts a long time and will come in handy if you brew a batch that for some reason doesn't kick off. Not sure you need to use more than one pack in your stout, if you make a starter that should be fine.

2. Yes, in two days you should be getting some fermentation going and that's better than just dumping the vial (or pack) of liquid yeast in.

3. I'd put getting a stirplate on the back burner, if you are just starting there are a few other things you should get first.

4. The yeast nutrient won't hurt anything, not sure if you really need it.

My 2 cents: Stop doing partial boils and using DME. Just get a 5 gallon cooler from walmart, a cheap valve setup for it, a BIAB bag and a 6 gallon pot. You can do 4 gallon+ batches in your kitchen, with that setup and the money you save on the DME will pay for the new stuff.
I don't like the foil covered container for the starter, but I know a lot of brewers do it like that. Get a glass 1/2 gallon jug from your brewing store along with a stopper and an airlock and use that as a mini carboy for your starter.
[...]

1. Dry yeast keeps even better in the freezer. For years (4+). If you opened a yeast pouch but didn't use it all, make sure it's dry, fold over the loose flap 2x and tape shut. Then store in a ziplock baggy in the freezer.

Use good sanitation practices when handling yeast for brewing.

Re: Your 2 cents...
Agree with going (Partial) Mash/All Grain rather sooner than later. That's the future, but first make sure you like brewing enough to invest in more equipment. If so, get a 48 quart (12 gallon) rectangular cooler instead of a 5 gallon round one. With the 48 qt you can mash any 5-6 gallon All Grain batch. Even 10 gallon ones.

A 6 gallon pot can be had fairly cheaply (check CL too), and your stove can probably (hopefully) boil it. Splitting the boil by having a large second pot of say 2-3 gallons you can put on a second burner helps in getting your brew volume up to 5 gallons. All grain, full boils that is. No DME needed.

An airlock on the starter vessel prevents the needed gas exchange: CO2 (and air) out <> Oxygen (air) in. Yeast needs oxygen to grow, we're not fermenting. Starsan-ed aluminum foil works fine. Just spray Starsan liberally around the foil before removing and around the neck after it has been removed.

 

[IslandLizard]

Any chance you can elaborate on the mini-mash? I've seen quite a few recipes where the oats are simply steeped through a grain bag, or sometimes simply added to the boil and strained off. I was planning on doing 2 grain bags, one for the dark malts another for the oats, but am now second guessing this.

Quick google search found this: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/PM-OatmealStout.pdf

Presumably the mini-mash would be steps 2-9 in the above? If so, I am guessing after this procedure I would top-up to my pre-boil volume, steep the dark malt, then proceed with the LME/DME as planned?

Yup, that's a mini mash. The key is you need a pound (or more) of diastatic malt, like 2-row, Pale Malt, Maris Otter, Vienna, etc., malt that has enzymes in it. Flaked oats has none. The enzymes convert the starches to fermentable sugars, including those from the oats.

You could mash in a pot (stir well) and put that in a preheated 150°F oven and then use a colander or mesh strainer to "strain" your mash rather than using a "steeping" bag. The first wort coming out the strainer will contain pieces of grain. You want to pour that wort back onto the grain bed in the colander ("vorlaufen"). The grain bed acts as a sieve. Now you get clear wort (your "first runnings").

Mix the grains with some hot water and strain again (sparging). Do it again if you want.

How far are you from your brew store? Can you pick up a pound of 2-row, Pale Malt or Maris Otter before you brew this? Make sure they crush it finely, run it through the mill twice. Any other home brewer you know in your area who could give you some 2-row?

 

[Cannae216]

This is incredibly helpful, thank you.

What ratio of diastic malt to oats would I use, 1:1? Also, would it make sense to do the same process with the dark malt, or should I steep these after the partial-mash of the oats?

Just to make sure I understand the mini-mash process:

1) Add oats and diastic malt to water, bring to ~154F on stove top
2) Place kettle in oven set at 150F for an hour
3) Remove kettle from oven, pour contents through a strainer into a second kettle (I have 2 5G kettles).
4) Pour the liquid from step #3 through the strainer one more time
5) Mix grains with ~154F water, pour onto a strainer into the same kettle that holds the liquid attained through step #4.
6) Pour all of the liquid through the grain bed
7) Repeat steps 5 and 6

Does this make sense?

EDIT: I will be stopping by my LHBS on my way home from work, and will be sure to crush it finely. I had them crush my dark malt for me as well, but only ran through once...should I take a rolling pin to this before steeping?

 

[madscientist451]

There's an interesting experiment that shows that not restricting the gas exchange when making a starter produces a higher yeast count:

http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2013/03/19/access-to-air-and-its-effect-on-yeast-growth-in-starters/

I always use a 1/2 gallon jug, an airlock and about 1 quart or maybe 3 cups of wort for the starter and I've had good success, with that.
But I also usually have 4-5 brews going with different yeasts including saison
and sour beers and also bake my own bread, make wine and cider and try to do the best I can to keep the yeasts separate. The yeast count of my starters is probably not optimal, but seems good enough to do the job..

 

[IslandLizard]

This is incredibly helpful, thank you.

What ratio of diastic malt to oats would I use, 1:1? Also, would it make sense to do the same process with the dark malt, or should I steep these after the partial-mash of the oats?

Just to make sure I understand the mini-mash process:

1) Add oats and diastic malt to water, bring to ~154F on stove top
2) Place kettle in oven set at 150F for an hour
3) Remove kettle from oven, pour contents through a strainer into a second kettle (I have 2 5G kettles).
4) Pour the liquid from step #3 through the strainer one more time
5) Mix grains with ~154F water, pour onto a strainer into the same kettle that holds the liquid attained through step #4.
6) Pour all of the liquid through the grain bed
7) Repeat steps 5 and 6

Does this make sense?

EDIT: I will be stopping by my LHBS on my way home from work, and will be sure to crush it finely. I had them crush my dark malt for me as well, but only ran through once...should I take a rolling pin to this before steeping?

I would get 2 pounds of 2-row malt or Maris Otter if the price is only a few dimes more. Some stores sell MO malt as if it were gold. It's good, but not worth double the price of 2-row.

Why 2 pounds? Flavor, and lauterability. Oats are sticky, so some extra husk is good.

You're probably OK with the crush on the specialty malts. I like mine crushed finer, better extraction.

NOTE: I rephrased this:
Re: 5) First sparge. Don't pour into container from #4 but into an empty container as it will contain grain bits.
Re: 6) No, pour wort from 5) through the grain bed with the container from 4) underneath it.
Re: 7) Yes, sparge the grains again (2nd time) to eek out more sweet wort.

Use about 5-6 quarts to sparge each time. Not critical, as long as you can stir it, like a thin porridge.

Note: You do NOT want to pour any high gravity wort through the already washed (sparged) grains. That would be counter productive.

For your Mini Mash you have 2 pounds of 2-row + 2.2 pounds of flaked oats. That's 4.2 pounds. Mix well (stir like you mean it, no clumps and dough balls left) with 6.5-7 quarts of hot water (166°F). You can use this Mash Calculator at Brewer's Friend. This will result in a mash temp of around 154°F. If too low, apply some heat while stirring well so it heats evenly and doesn't scorch.
Put in oven. You can stir it again after 15 minutes and again after 30. Measure the temp and adjust.

Re: Your dark grains. They should be steeped in your kettle containing that sweet wort from the mash and top up water to get to your pre-boil volume.

If you really want a pro approach, steep (and sparge) all your dark grains separately on the side, sort of like your mini mash, but without diastatic malt. Use 1.25-1.33 quarts of water per pound of grain.

Then add that dark goodness liquor to your boil kettle with 5 minutes left. It keeps it fresher without that cooked coffee taste.

If you're going this route, adding the dark liquor at the end, you'll top off your fermentor with less cold water of course, since you will be closer to 5 gallons already.

 

[IslandLizard]

[...] I had them crush my dark malt for me as well, but only ran through once...should I take a rolling pin to this before steeping?

If it's very course, like most grain bits are 1/8" or larger in diameter, either roller pin it in a plastic bag or give it a few pulses in the food processor. Most brew stores tend to mill grain on the coarse side... bad for efficiency => buy more grain to compensate.

 

[Cannae216]

Thanks, IslandLizard, for taking so much time to guide me through this. I think I will take your advice and do 2 separate mini-mashes, adding the dark liquor at the same time as the aroma hops (i.e. 5 mins left).

With regards to the LME/DME that I am using, do you think it would make sense to swap out one of the dark for a pilsner/amber? The more I look at stout recipes, it seems that using all dark LME/DME tends to be the exception rather than the norm? I would hate for the ~8 lbs of dark extract to overpower the hard-won flavour from the oats and dark malts...

 

[IslandLizard]

Added: The steeping of the (dark) grains is not a mini mash, it's just steeping separately (on the side) so it doesn't get boiled for an hour.

I didn't put your recipe into a malt calculator, but with the mini mash you can eliminate adding the leftover 1.7# of dark DME. Your 2# of 2-row or MO will give you 2*38 =76 points of gravity + whatever the oats bring to the mash. The 1.7# of dark DME would have given you 1.7*46 = 78 points.

If you haven't started your starter, you can make that with Pilsen Light or Golden Light DME to perhaps get a slightly better grow rate. Then save the dark DME for another brew. The dark DME contains a percentage of C120 and dark grains, that yeast can't ferment or use. Not that important though, maybe only 10-15% difference in total compared to Pilsen or Golden Light DME.

Added: Is that Briess Dark LME or another maltster's?
6.6 pounds doesn't seem excessive (eliminating the 1.7# of DME). Where did you find this recipe? Was it "tested?"

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks, IslandLizard, for taking so much time to guide me through this. I think I will take your advice and do 2 separate mini-mashes, adding the dark liquor at the same time as the aroma hops (i.e. 5 mins left).

With regards to the LME/DME that I am using, do you think it would make sense to swap out one of the dark for a pilsner/amber? The more I look at stout recipes, it seems that using all dark LME/DME tends to be the exception rather than the norm? I would hate for the ~8 lbs of dark extract to overpower the hard-won flavour from the oats and dark malts...

Yes, while you're there grab a 3# bag of Light or Pilsner DME (or amber if they don't have that).

I just tossed this in BS and you're a bit heavy on the dark DME.

Is that LME in 3.3# cans or bulk fill?

 

[Cannae216]

The recipe came from this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/none-more-black-vanilla-stout-96969/index4.html#post2172851

It is fairly similar to the OP's recipe, which seemed to get good reviews, and sounds like it turned out good.

The LME is in 3.3# cans. I can always swap this out with a Light/Pilsner as the guys at the LHBS are pretty reasonable...

I will also swap out the Dark DME with Light as it sounds like this will be better for the starter...

 

[IslandLizard]

I've sent you my .bsmx file.
Yes, only use one can of the dark LME, make up the balance with light or amber DME.

You won't need the dark DME, and having Light around is good for starters too.

Don't forget, you can brew any beer with Light DME. Just add your crystal and specialty steeping malts. That's what gives the darker DME varieties their color and character. Once you get into partial mashing you'll never want to go back to extract only.

It's good to have two 5 gallon pots. Best of both worlds. In the near future you could consider boiling both with 3.5 gallons each (your stove should be able handle that) and do All Grain. The only thing you'd need is a cooler mashtun with an appropriate drain. Or mash in one kettle in the oven using a large bag to hold the grains. Then sparge in the other.

Are you brewing this weekend?

 

[Cannae216]

I swapped out one can of dark LME and the DME for a 3.3# can of light LME and a bag of DME. Thanks for sending the BS file, will crack it open as soon as I am home.

I am planning on brewing on Sunday, as I am bottling my first brew tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[IslandLizard]

I swapped out one can of dark LME and the DME for a 3.3# can of light LME and a bag of DME. Thanks for sending the BS file, will crack it open as soon as I am home.

I am planning on brewing on Sunday, as I am bottling my first brew tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help.

Ah, good.
Get that starter started tomorrow.

 

[Cannae216]

Final recipe is as follows, will be doing a partial mash and partial boil of ~3.5G:

2 lbs Oats, Flaked
2 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt
8.0 oz Roasted Barley
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt
1 lbs 1.6 oz Light Dry Extract
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 21.4 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
1.00 oz Willamette [4.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min 5.6 IBUs
3 lbs 4.8 oz Dark Liquid Extract [Boil for 5 min]
1.0 pkg Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004)
Add in pre-made mixture of medium french oak cube, 2 vanilla beans and Maker's Mark after fermentation is complete

BS kicks out an OG of 1.062 and ~35 IBU. Will be putting together a 1 3/4 L yeast starter (I only have a 2L flask, and want to leave headroom).

Thanks to everyone for their input and help on this, really looking forward to it!

 

[Cannae216]

Made my yeast starter today, ~ 2 1/4L /w 230g of light DME.

Everything went well, except I made a stupid mistake...I forgot to wipe down the kettle after removing the kettle from the cold water bath. I poured the kettle into a funnel directly into my growler that I am using for my yeast starter. I am fairly certain some of the water from the sink dripped off the side of my kettle into the funnel...

I know I should RDWHAHB (my first one is being bottle conditioned, so this will have to wait), but I am wondering if there is a good chance the starter will be infected?

 

[IslandLizard]

Made my yeast starter today, ~ 2 1/4L /w 230g of light DME.

Everything went well, except I made a stupid mistake...I forgot to wipe down the kettle after removing the kettle from the cold water bath. I poured the kettle into a funnel directly into my growler that I am using for my yeast starter. I am fairly certain some of the water from the sink dripped off the side of my kettle into the funnel...

I know I should RDWHAHB (my first one is being bottle conditioned, so this will have to wait), but I am wondering if there is a good chance the starter will be infected?

You'll be fine unless that water was really foul. You won't to that again. It all becomes second nature after a while. I also boil my starter wort in a stainless pot. After cooling I pour or scoop the wort out with a Pyrex measuring cup. There is no way I'd put a flask directly on a stove top.

I was wondering how one would get the white yeast layer out of the jar that had settled on top of the trub layer after harvesting yeast. It's so simple: A long spoon. Sanitized of course. Scrape the yeast off. Yeah you get some trub with that too. No big deal.

 

[Cannae216]

Thanks. I wasn't able to brew this weekend unfortunately. I have placed the starter in the fridge after ~30 hours of fermenting, had a nice 3/4" yeast cake on the bottom of the growler this morning which seems good.

Will the starter be safe to use this coming weekend? I believe I need to decant the wort, allow cake to rise to room temp. and then pitch?

 

[IslandLizard]

Sorry you didn't get to brew.

No problem leaving the yeast in the fridge until you're ready. While you're getting ready, mashing, or boiling the wort, pour off most of the starter beer, leaving enough to swirl it up into a thin slurry, the amount is not critical. By the time your wort is chilled your yeast will be at room temp. Either pitch the whole amount or keep some behind for your next starter. If you decide to save some in a 1/2 or 1/4 pint jar, top up with that starter beer you had poured off before, leaving 1/8" of space in the jar. If you do this, that starter beer needed to be decanted into a well sanitized jar, of course.

 

[halcyondays]

Thanks. I wasn't able to brew this weekend unfortunately. I have placed the starter in the fridge after ~30 hours of fermenting, had a nice 3/4" yeast cake on the bottom of the growler this morning which seems good.

Will the starter be safe to use this coming weekend? I believe I need to decant the wort, allow cake to rise to room temp. and then pitch?

I'd say the yeast will be fine as long as it's sealed well and you don't have anything molding in the fridge or anything. I put mine in the fridge (only overnight, though usually) and it's always fine. I take it out about 2-3 hours before I plan on pitching, decant most of the wort, letting just a little stay in there. Then let it rise to room temp, give it a good swirl and pour it in. Curious to see how this ferments, keep us posted!

 

[Cannae216]

Thanks folks.

The growler still has tinfoil on it, although perhaps now it makes sense to move to something airtight as the yeast isn't active anymore?

No mold in the fridge...SWMBO simply would not allow this!

Will keep you posted, hopefully get to brew on Sunday if all goes well.

 

[IslandLizard]

You could, I usually leave the tin foil on the flasks and jars, but you could put a lid on it. Just spray Starsan on and around the foil liberally before removing it and spray the opening and neck after. Then recap.

I also use 1/2 gallon pickle jars, they have the twist-off lids and make a darn good seal for longer storage. Great for making starters in.

Beware, if you store yeast in the fridge for long periods of time. I've had a few Mason jars where the lid (under the ring/band) had bulged or even contorted to let the pressure out. Even at 36-38°F there can still be some activity.

What I also discovered is that the thin kitchen quality aluminum foil used as caps develops dozens of pin holes, as quickly as in 1 day, worse over time. Hold it up to a light. I assume it's the Phosphoric acid in Starsan corroding it. I now use "heavy duty" foil, and that remains solid and light tight, even after repeated use.

Now those pinholes can be used in some photographic applications perhaps. It's nearly impossible to make holes that small with mechanical means.

 

[Cannae216]

Finally able to brew!

I decanted the starter (now been in the fridge for 2 weeks) and am slightly worried at the color of the yeast on the bottom...the top half of the yeast looks slighty darker than the bottom, below are some pics.

Any idea if this looks infected? I tasted some of the decanted wort, and it tasted fine (flat table beer) and there doesn't seem to be any off smells.

 

[Cannae216]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1421544299.180028.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1421544309.533988.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1421544318.024531.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1421544334.395842.jpg