Yeast question - first brew

[RunnerDude]

Hi all,

So, I'm an absolute first-timer and did very little research before my first brew. I've read 10 times more since. Tried to look through the forum and FAQs and it's shed light on my situation, but I still have some questions.

Making a basic stout, nothing fancy.

I think everything was sanitized well and I followed the recipe pretty closely as far as cook times, temps, etc. So, I'm not too worried. But I did make one mistake (not sure how significant)...ok, I'm sure I made more than one, but I'm going to focus on just one. After cooling and stirring the wort, I popped open my yeast and pitched with a Wyeast 1084 in the Activator pack. After dumping it in I saw this little packet inside. "What the heck is this thing?" THEN I read the directions on the yeast. Oops. I added the packet contents also, re-stirred and figured that was all I could do.

Later, I did read on the Wyeast site that there is enough yeast in the packet even unactivated to pitch 5 gallons of wort, which is what I had. But addtionally the yeast was 5 months old (refrigerated). And Wyeast says it has a shelf life of 6 months. So, it was getting old.

There was a long lag: 2.5 days (at least until airlock activity), but apparently it's fermenting away. It's still fermenting. Airlock activity has slowed after 3 days. So, really I don't think I have anything to worry about.

But my question is this:

If the yeast was a bit old combined with not being activated, could the beer not ferment as much as necessary? Or is fermentation contingent upon amount of "sugars" in the wort and not amount/health of yeast? Or put another way, if it ferments at all is that an indication that all is well with the yeast?

To the point, I am planning on just leaving it in primary for 3 weeks and then bottling. If my final gravity is too high, is that a problem? Can I repitch at that point? Is that even a plausible situation given what I've been able to describe? Is there any reason to do a gravity reading now (not sure what I'd do with that knowledge other than know the gravity at this point and I'd prefer not to mess with it)?

Secondary question, I forgot to take an OG until after I pitched (immediately after). The gravity was 1.064 for a recipe calling for 1.055. Temp was around 70 or a bit lower. How much would the yeast affect OG immediately after? My thinking is that yeast would make OG higher, but only slightly so given the relative volumes of yeast to wort. But perhaps yeast is super dense.

Thanks for any thoughts. So far I'm having a blast with my first beer, mistakes and all. My goal for the first one is merely drinkability. So, I'm not aiming too high.

 

[terrapinj]

your yeast should be fine - the nutrients in the smack pack are mainly to allow the brewer to verify that the yeast are still active by seeing the pack swell from activity.

i wouldn't even think or worry about repitching or not hitting your target FG range at this point because it is out of your hands and likely won't be an issue. if you are getting consistently high FG after gravity checks around 3 week point then come back and check around here for how to handle a potentially stuck fermentation because you don't want to bottle with a high FG - but again don't worry about that until it happens, if it ever does.

was your batch extract/steeping partial boil? ie did you top off with fresh water before pitching? if so your OG should be right where the recipe suggested it and the mis-reading is likely a result from topping off as it can be hard to get a proper mix of wort and water for an accurate reading. the yeast won't add gravity points - they only impact gravity readings by how much sugar they have and haven't consumed - so the reading after pitching will not be affected by the yeast at all

next few weeks will be tough, be patient, try to keep your temps in the mid 60° range and try not to disturb the wort too much

congrats on your first brew

 

[RunnerDude]

Thanks terrapinj!

All very useful info. I have to admit to ignorance on the terms, but it was extract and I think it was a partial boil as I did top it off from about 3 to a full 5 gallons. Perhaps that's why the OG's off.

Another possibility: from further reading I've realized that I didn't transfer properly to primary. Out of pure ignorance, I just dumped the wort in, hops, sediment and all. Once all the liquid was out I stopped. So, maybe only about half of the "sediment" (for lack of a proper term) got dumped in. But perhaps that's why the OG was high?

At any rate, it will be interesting to see how that affects things. A bit more flavor (and hoppiness) would be fine with me. Hopefully it won't mess it up too much.

 

[vegas20s]

yeast are awesome they can handle what you throw at them!
All we can do is make conditions that they prefer. But even in undesirable conditions yeast will still do a heck of a job.

 

[ghank15]

Another possibility: from further reading I've realized that I didn't transfer properly to primary. Out of pure ignorance, I just dumped the wort in, hops, sediment and all. Once all the liquid was out I stopped. So, maybe only about half of the "sediment" (for lack of a proper term) got dumped in. But perhaps that's why the OG was high?

I wouldn't worry about that. This wouldn't affect your hydro reading. Honestly, it really shouldn't affect the final product too much, if it all.

Many of us use some type of filter so that the hops (if we are using pellets) don't end up in the secondary. Many of us don't. While your beer is fermenting, it will settle. If some gets into the bottles, it will settle there as well. No major problems.

Congrats on the brew.

 

[RunnerDude]

Cool. Thanks all.

One last thing. terrapinj said to keep it in the mid 60s. I started it upstairs where it was 68-74 for the first 2-3 days. Once it started fermenting I moved it to the coolest part of my house, a closet in the basement. It's pretty stable around 68. From what everyone has said I assume it will be fine even if that's not perfectly ideal? Short of buying an extra fridge, how to people keep them cool in the summer?

And thanks for the congrats. I'm excited to see how it comes out.

 

[jonmohno]

Im druk........ hope this helps!

 

[stratslinger]

68 should be safe enough - I've got a pair of fermenters going around that temp right now... Most yeast prefers a couple degrees cooler than that, but you shouldn't have much of a problem at all.

Now, to deal with the higher temps, do a couple searches for "swamp coolers" and "fermentation chambers"; those will give you a ton of ideas. In fact, I'll be starting up my fermentation chamber build any day now, and plan to post some progress reports. But the swamp cooler is a good way to go to keep things on the cheaper side...

 

[jonmohno]

First week temps, very important.

 

[Calder]

First brew .... you are well ahead of most people at this stage. I started with no other help than Papazian.

Fermentation temps really depend on the yeast, but 68 is pretty good. Maybe a little high, but difficult to control at this time of the year. I just pitched PacMan in a 68 F swamp cooler. Different yeasts like different temps, a lot don't like to be below 65 F, and some work best above 75 F, ..... the Dupont strain needs to be 85 F or above. 65-70 F is OK for most ale strains.

Don't fret the trub, but it will detract from your final volume. It will not hurt the beer.

Gravity of extract brews is pretty consistent. I suspect you didn't have everything mixed completely - no worry.

2.5 days to show fermentation is a concern. It did start and is going well, so should be OK. Some folks say 72 hours (3 days) is the limit. I expect active fermentation within 12 hours. I always pitch either plenty of yeast or an active starter. You pitched an old activator pack. You should be OK, but if your cleanliness was off, you gave any foreign critters an 2.5 day advantage over the yeast. ....... Providing you kept the wort sealed from the environment, you should be ok. Good luck.

 

[RunnerDude]

Thanks Calder.

All very helpful tips. I'll check my yeast next time for what temp it wants. The recipe said 62-72, which is a pretty broad range, so I just tried to keep it at that.

I think I'll also do some reading on how to tell if a beer is infected just in case. I think my cleanliness was good, and wort's been sealed in a bucket with airlock since shortly after pitching. But I could have missed something.

Thanks again.

 

[Calder]

I think I'll also do some reading on how to tell if a beer is infected just in case. I think my cleanliness was good, and wort's been sealed in a bucket with airlock since shortly after pitching. But I could have missed something.

The main infection that will detract from drinking the beer will be vinegar. You will be able to tell pretty easily.

 

[RunnerDude]

Cool. Thanks again to everyone for the helpful tips/info. I'll post here in a month or so to let you know how it turned out.

 

[RunnerDude]

Ok...so I have a weird follow up question. This morning I went down to check on my beer (as a reminder it's fermenting in a bucket with airlock) and there were 6 insects on the lid. They appeared to be some type of millipede/centipede grub. I am keeping the fermenter in a closet in the basement so I have no doubt there are bugs down there. On the one hand I'm not worried because the bucket is sealed and has an airlock, so I don't think they could get in, nor do I think they could have come from inside. But on the other hand, it is still disconcerting. I do store boxes in that closet and was moving them around the other day, so maybe some eggs or something fell on the lid? Or maybe a bug was attracted to the sweet smell or the CO2 and laid eggs on the fermenter. Odd thing is that I was down there last night and didn't notice anything, though I wasn't looking at the top, just checking the fermometer on the side.

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience or any thoughts about the why, concerns, implications? Thanks.

 

[RunnerDude]

Well after 3 weeks (plus 3 days) in primary, I took a gravity reading today. It's at 1.022 and recipe calls for 1.014. But the original gravity was 1.064 and called for 1.055. So I figure that's fine as it changed almost exactly as much as called for. And after 3 weeks I'm confident that it's done fermenting. If it matters, the temp in primary was around 68 early on and in the second half has been closer to 70, even a touch higher at times.

I think I'm good to bottle, just looking for some confirmation.

 

[terrapinj]

have you taken multiple gravity readings on different days?

1.022 is a little high but not uncommon occurance for extract batches to finish around there - if the recipe was extract then your OG should be spot on to the original unless you added more sugar/fermentables

 

[stratslinger]

I've got to disagree with part of what terrapinj is saying here... I've read a lot around here that people seem to believe that it's common for extract batches to end at 1.020. With quite a few under my belt, I've never once seen this happen, and I've talked with a lot of folks here who agree and have identical experiences - I think you may have a stuck fermentation going on, which you may be able to correct by gently rousing the yeast (give your fermenter a good swirl - not a shake! - or three).

I will also point out that I thought I had a stuck fermentation on a batch about 2 months ago - similar to yours, I was 3 weeks in and SG was 1.020 on the button. Several folks assured me that this was normal for extract and I should just bottle as-is. Fortunately, life got in the way for a week and by the time I came back to it it had gotten to FG.

Also, if it's an extract batch, I'll absolutely agree with terrapinj on your OG. Chances are you hit it almost exactly, but you didn't mix completely your wort and your top-off water, leading to an innacurate OG reading. This is indeed very common with extract brews, unless you go out of your way to stir or shake the crap out of your fermenter when you first combine wort and top-off water. It's really hard to miss OG with extract brews!

 

[terrapinj]

it happened to me - also stuck at 1.022 - warmed it up and stirred gently, racked to secondary and pitched another packet of hydrated us-05 and left for over a week and still ended at 1.022

i'm not saying he's for sure done esp without knowing whether or not he's taken multiple gravity readings but it is not uncommon to have an extract batch stop at 1.02x and finish there esp if there wasn't proper oxygenation or the extract has low FAN (free amino nitrogen)

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.2/lodahl.html

 

[RunnerDude]

I haven't taken multiple readings. I just did another one and it was about identical. I also tested my hydrometer just to rule out any weirdness there: 1.001 with some distilled water I had around.

Just a thought, I did a few things wrong. Could they have affected my gravity readings, either initial or final? First I just threw my pelletized hops in the brew whole. The guy "helping me" (he's only done one brew himself) thought i was supposed to put them in a muslin bag. Then when putting the beer into the fermenter I just dumped it in along with a good deal of the solids (trub?). Maybe that affected things? Also i used tap water and not distilled. Could that affect things.

Don't now if this matters, but last night I brought it up from the basement. It was 68 and is now 72-74. And though I moved it gently it got some shaking. So perhaps that would have kickstarted things if they were stuck.

Last, remember that I started with yeast I forgot to activate (didn't know how the smack packs worked) and it was 5 months old. Don't know if that's pertinent at this point.

So far one vote for it's probably done and one vote for keep trying. Looking for more info to make a decision.

What the worst that happens if it's not done and I bottle it? Mediocre beer (I've tasted it and it's already perfectly drinkable, though far from great)? Low alcohol? Exploding bottles?

 

[RunnerDude]

To clarify, I did two hydrometer readings a few hours apart. I assume that's not what was meant by "multiple readings." I just wanted to make sure I hadn't misread of somehow messed it up.

 

[stratslinger]

No, none of the things you suggested should impact your FG...
- The yeast, as old as they were, might have been slow taking off - but once they got going, they'd still get to final gravity.
- The hops in the muslin bag... Well, some folks do that, some toss 'em in straight out of the bag (I do that). Hops don't affect gravity, so nothing to worry about there.
- The solids from your brew kettle shouldn't affect gravity, that I know of - but typically folks try to limit how much solids gets into their brews in part to help keep their beer clear and in part to avoid some off flavors that can happen if the beer sits on those solids for too long. Typically, it's not something we worry about a whole lot at the scale we're brewing.
- Your water... Isn't going to affect gravity, but depending on how its treated by your water company it could affect flavor. Typically, if it's good enough to drink, it's good enough to brew with, but it won't contribute to gravity being off.

Moving the fermenter up to a slightly warmer space, and the small amount of agitation that caused, could be exactly what the doctor ordered.

When we say multiple hydrometer readings, the typical rule of thumb is that your gravity reading should be identical for 3 days running. Record your gravity from tonight, test again tomorrow. If that matches tonight's, take another sample the next night - if all 3 match, you're as fermented as you're likely to get! If the values start to dip at all over the next two days, then back off. Probably give it another week or so in that case, then go for your three consecutive days worth of readings again.

Now, if the beer is not done and you bottle, the worst that can happen is what we like to refer to as bottle bombs. And they can be exactly what they sound like! You prime your beer just before bottling, then package it up and seal the bottles. Well, if the yeast wake up and chew through that bottling sugar AND whatever residual fermentables are left in your brew, they can produce too much CO2, which can in turn produce too much pressure inside the bottle. This can pop off the caps (if you didn't get a good crimp) and make a big mess in the best case, or it can lead to literally exploding bottles in bad cases.

 

[RunnerDude]

Thanks!

And yikes. That's what I thought. How long would the "bombs" take to go off? I assume a few weeks max? If they explode on me, that's one thing, but giving some to friends and then, well, that would be bad.

If it is still the same in two days is there any use in repitching?

 

[RunnerDude]

Oh, two things to add.

First, as to my original gravity, I did use an extract and followed the recipe pretty closely. I also stirred pretty vigorously with a spoon for 5 min. per the instructions to oxygenate the wort. I would think that would have mixed the water and wort pretty darn well.

Two, I'm fermenting in a bucket and I expected to see more "stuff" (for lack of a better term when I opened it. There was a ring of "stuff" around the bucket above the liquid line and some tiny bubbles on top of the wort (or is it no longer wort?). Anyway, I expected a lot of junk floating on top. Could that be indicative of stuck fermentation or does that mean nothing. I just feel like I've seen picture that look crazy and people using blowout tubes because their fermenters overflowed.

 

[terrapinj]

its really hard to mix water and wort so inaccurate OG readings when topping off with water are pretty common - if you stuck to the recipe there really isn't any way you would have gotten a higher OG unless your volume was much smaller than 5g

the stuff on top is krausen - it usually dissipates after fermentation is complete so if it's been in there for a few weeks you are probably only seeing the ring around the bucket from residue - at this point its a good thing you don't see a lot of stuff floating on top

 

[RunnerDude]

Thanks terrapinj,

My volume might have been a touch low, but not much. I wasn't super accurate in topping off. But was aiming for about 5, not over. Perhaps that's why the OG was high. And good to know on the krausen.

Anyway, I'll see what the next 2 days bring and go from there.

Thanks to all for the advice.

 

[RunnerDude]

So I got delayed and finally went to test again tonight. The beer has white spots floating in it. Now I'm worried it got infected when I tested the gravity last time. Only thing that has changed other than my testing it was that it got quite warm. The weather changed and it did get above 78 for a while and then has been around 74-76. I'm about to taste it but curious if people think it's infected or something else (yes I'm paranoid like every first timer). What concerns me is that there was no such thing last time I looked at it. Doesn't smell obviously infected.

 

[kapbrew13]

So I got delayed and finally went to test again tonight. The beer has white spots floating in it. Now I'm worried it got infected when I tested the gravity last time. Only thing that has changed other than my testing it was that it got quite warm. The weather changed and it did get above 78 for a while and then has been around 74-76. I'm about to taste it but curious if people think it's infected or something else (yes I'm paranoid like every first timer). What concerns me is that there was no such thing last time I looked at it. Doesn't smell obviously infected.

Infection? No. White spots are yeast floating around on white rafts because they are being lazy after their world got too warm.

 

[RunnerDude]

It doesn't taste good. Strong and somewhat astringent taste. Whether the spots are indicative of infection or not, I fear it's infected. Either that or the heat and being on the trub too long (meant to bottle at 3 weeks, but now it's been 5) just caused off flavors. So, I guess the next question is to bottle it and see or to pour it out.

 

[RunnerDude]

Ok, after having more people taste it, the consensus from others is that it's not "bad." Perhaps the time and/or heat caused some off flavors, but I'll bottle it and see if any of those flavors even out.

For anyone interested, the gravity is still 1.022. So, swishing it, heat and 2 more weeks changed the gravity exactly none. Thanks for all the help along the way. It may not be all that good, but at least I'm not going to dump it out.

 

[RunnerDude]

Oh, one more question. Is it ok to sanitize the bottles tonight, let them dry overnight and bottle tomorrow? Or could they get contaminated. Generally how long between sanitizing and using is considered ok?

 

[kapbrew13]

Oh, one more question. Is it ok to sanitize the bottles tonight, let them dry overnight and bottle tomorrow? Or could they get contaminated. Generally how long between sanitizing and using is considered ok?

Sanitize with starsan, shake excess water off, bottle, cap. It has to be wet to work.