Yeast Harvesting from the source bottle

[ikkyu]

I have tried to search for this but had no luck. I live in Japan so I am limited to dry yeasts or I have to pre-order liquid yeasts months in advance (Advanced Brewing used to stock Wyeast and White Labs but it appears that is no longer the case).

So despite this being only my second batch I am looking to harvest some yeast. It's hot as the devil so I want to try my hand at Saison Dupont. I have a large champagne size bottle and was wondering if I can't just pour some cooled wort directly into the bottle and then place a stopper with an airlock on it. I don't have time, space or money for a plate stirrer or the step method described in Papazian. Looking for a quick effective method. Any ideas?

 

[ikkyu]

One clarification...I have a champagne-sized bottle of Saison Dupont. I am looking to drink 90% of the beer then pour cooled wort into that bottle on the remained yeast that is left. Then seal it with the stopper/airlock.

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

Seems like it should work out. I have the remains of a bottle of Gnomegang (after starter) going strong on a DIPA.

 

[ChillWill]

You don't want to put an airlock on. Yeast need oxygen to reproduce so adding an airlock would limit the supply. Sanitise some foil and put that loosely on the top. Also make sure you sanitise the lip of the bottle after pouring out the saison.

 

[ikkyu]

I decided to do a test with a smaller bottle of Saison Dupont. I sanitized a Corona bottle and tossed in 220ml of chilled wort. I aerated the wort by shaking the bottle and then poured in the dregs and put on an airlock/ stopper. The next day I can see some kind of traub. But saw no CO2 action in the airlock. Is this grey matter in the bottom pitchable yeast?

 

[Revvy]

I decided to do a test with a smaller bottle of Saison Dupont. I sanitized a Corona bottle and tossed in 220ml of chilled wort. I aerated the wort by shaking the bottle and then poured in the dregs and put on an airlock/ stopper. The next day I can see some kind of traub. But saw no CO2 action in the airlock. Is this grey matter in the bottom pitchable yeast?

Airlock activity is irrevelent, it may or not mean anything, besides like someone else mentioned you don't want to use an airlock for a starter (and that's what your essentially making, a yeast starter) you should use a sanitized piece of aluminum foil instead.

Activity in a starter really only means one thing and one thing only.

It doesn't matter one blip in your fermenter or your starter flask if the airlock bubbles or not (if you are using an airlock and not tinfoil if you are using tinfoil, you aren't getting bibbling anyway,) or if you see a krauzen. In fact starter fermentation are some of the fastest or slowest but most importantly, the most boring fermentations out there. Usually it's done withing a few hours of yeast pitch...usually overnight when we are sleeping, and the starter looks like nothing ever happened...except for the little band at the bottom. Or it can take awhile...but either way there's often no "activity" whatsoever....

I usually run my stirplate for the first 24 hours, then shut it down, if you are spinning your starter it is really hard to get a krausen to form anyway, since it's all spinning, and there's often a head of foam on it from the movement.


All that really matters is that creamy band o yeast at the bottom.

This is a chilled sample so it's flocculated, but even with an unchilled sample you should see a band of yeast at the bottom. Here's an unchilled version

Same thing, a band.

As it is I've only ever seen two or three krausens actually on my starter (one blew off a bunch of krausen and knocked the tinfoil off the flask,) and the evidence of one on the flask at the "waterline" once. But I've never not had a starter take off.

Look for the yeast at the bottom, don't worry what it looks like on top.

If you have yeast on the bottom....that's all you really need.

If it looks anything like that, your are ready to either feed it again, or use it.

 

[ikkyu]

Thanks for the replies. Like this forum I almost always get lots of info without a lot of attitude. I threw the airlock on there after reading Papazian and Palmer. Anyway, this was kind of a test batch. My sanitizing was not super-clean. Have any tried the cultivation of yeast on plates and with test tubes. Is that method cleaner? Finally what do you think of my original idea of just pouring wort into the original vessel on top of the dregs instead of sanitizing a separate bottle? I am thinking of getting a used plate stirrer, but if I get too much equipment the Mrs might just toss it and me out the window.

 

[pd230soi]

ikkyu,

If, big IF, your sanitization practices are good (don't drink from the master bottle), flame openings, and that sort of stuff I think this is a good idea. Maybe not great, but if you are trying to keep the MRS happy and reduce your brewing clutter you should try this. I don't think you have too much to lose.

I get good and sometime great results with dry yeast. So don't make this so hard on yourself that you don't like the hobby down the road. That would piss off my wife for sure - as she likes my beer.

1. Make some wort.
2. Cool it down to 70 degrees f.
3. Decant out most of the beer - have that bottle cooling in fridge for several days before trying this so the yeast has settled.
4. Swirl up yeast and 1/4 cup of original beer in the bottle
5. Flame lip of bottle, cool.
6. Using good sanitation pour wort into bottle, cover with sanitized tin foil - loose.
7. Swirl it around every time you walk past it.
8. Try not to stare at it every 10 min. The yeasties are trying to get busy....

 

[kapbrew13]

Any benefits to stirring for more then 24 hours on the stir plate?

 

[ChillWill]

Not really, it should be done after 24 hours. A brewery I've been to did it for 24 hours with an airlock to test how far the beer attenuated before bottling.

 

[1971hemicuda]

Any benefits to stirring for more then 24 hours on the stir plate?

Honestly, after 24 hours the little beasties have consumed most (if not all) of the sugar in the starter.

Most likely, your starter is around 1.04 OG and it's maybe 1% in size of your regular batch of beer (5 gallons that is). So, if it takes say...12 - 14 days to ferment a regular batch, those little beauties will finish that small starter in no time!

I, personally, like to let it ferment out over 24 hours, crash cool over 24 hours, decant spent wort, then pour in the yeast slury. But If you pitch the entire starter you want to do it within 24 hours because the yeast will be in full activity and you will get fermentation extremely quickly!

I like the advice given above. IF your sanitation is good, make your starter the night before. I would do this

1) pour out most of the beer in the Champagne bottle
1a) take 1 sip....1 sip only (because it's delicious!)
2) sanitize the tin foil and flame the lip of the bottle
3) pour in your cooled wort starter
4) cap loosely with tin foil, swirl
5) swirl again
6) consume the rest of that delicious beer
7) Before bed....swirl the starter

Unless you have a plate stirrer. But, this should work just fine! Then RDWHAHB!

 

[supermoth]

Have any tried the cultivation of yeast on plates and with test tubes. Is that method cleaner?

I did this when harvesting Pacman and Pranqster yeast. I served the beer, then alcohol-wiped the lip of the bottle and poured the dregs onto the agar plate and waited for the lawn of yeast to develop. From there I transferred to slants. The plate was nice because it was easy to see if there was any bacterial or mold contamination, however, there's no easy way to see if a wild yeast got in there. I have brewed with both of these, but the beer is still bottle conditioning so I can't really comment on my success.

 

[beerkrump]

I decided to do a test with a smaller bottle of Saison Dupont. I sanitized a Corona bottle and tossed in 220ml of chilled wort. I aerated the wort by shaking the bottle and then poured in the dregs and put on an airlock/ stopper. The next day I can see some kind of traub. But saw no CO2 action in the airlock. Is this grey matter in the bottom pitchable yeast?

It may be pitchable, but it isn't enough. You would be drastically under pitching for five gallons.

 

[ikkyu]

Great replies so far. Maybe I am just being lazy with wanting to throw the wort in the original bottle with the dregs but I figured that as long as I was not drinking from the bottle, the original bottle environment would be the best since the little yeasties have already made a home there. One thing that is a an obvious concern is contamination of wild yeast and bacteria. I am guessing streaking to some plates is the only way to guarantee yeast purity. One more thing, if I am going to do this in the champagne bottle (with conceivably more yeast available to harvest than a 12 oz bottle) how much wort should I throw in there? Would an increased amount of wort produce enough yeast to be pitchable for a five gallon batch? Ideally I would drink the Saison Dupont 1-2 days before brewing, add the cooled wort to the bottle (making a starter), give it 24-hours, brew, toss in my harvested yeast starter in 5 gallons of cooled wort, seal the fermenter and have a homebrew.

 

[1971hemicuda]

Well, you will get some healthy, viable yeast, and you COULD pitch it, but you would end up with A TON of lag in start time. You would probably want to oxygen blast your worth with a ton of O2 to make sure the yeast have something to much on to replicate with, and possibly put the yeast under stress... One of the primary reason's in doing a starter is to reduce the number of times the yeast need to reproduce to achieve colony size able to consume the sugar in your wort.

Normally you would do a starter, pitch in 1 vial of white labs, or 1 packet of wyeast, give it 24 hours, then ptich. The only difference is, those vials are supposed to have about a 100 BILLION cells! Then, when you use a starter (according to mrmalty.com or www.brewcals.com) you would get nearly twice that! Thus, the starter grows the yeast to a size large enough that the yeast minimize replication and can begin to consume the sugar in the wort with healthy, unstressed yeast. I can promise you this, there is NO WAY there are 100 billion cells at the bottom of that bottle. Granted, these are only suggested numbers, but if you want great beer, i would definitely look at pitching the right amount of yeast.

How about you do this...drink the Saison 5 days before brew day. Pitch your cooled wort, give it 2 days. Crash cool it so the yeast drop out of suspension (in the am). Decant (in the evening) the spent wort, pitch ANOTHER round of cooled wort, give it two days, crash cool and decant the spent wort....THEN pitch your full size yeast starter with enough healthy yeast to properly ferment the beer you just brewed.

You just spent 4 hours or so (all grain) or 2 hours (for mini-mash/extract) to have some delicious home brew...why risk it with yeast that might give you some very weird off flavors. spend the extra hour making 1 extra starter batch and enjoy some better than average homebrew.

That's just my 2 cents (i have successfully cultivated from the bottom of an ommegang bottle and rochefort bottle) and the beers have come out delicious!

I apologize out there if people want to offer more facts on why starters are done. I know there are a BUNCH more reason's but i'm just giving a very relevant one for this scenario

I love the idea of cultivating yeast from the bottle...try it! Just make sure you go about it the right way. The last thing you want to do is ruin a perfectly good batch of beer.

Cheers!

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

I got drunk, whipped up 3oz of light DME in some water on the stove and threw in some yeast nutrient. Let that cool in the freezer, powered through a few more homebrews, then when the starter was cool enough I threw the Gnomegang yeast (that was saved in a White Labs container) into the pan. I left the pan lid cracked a little and left a note for my roomies to leave it the hell alone.

The next afternoon I transferred it to a glass and put a paper towel over it because I needed the pan. Had mad yeasties cooling out in the bottom btw. Later that day I pitched it into 3 gallons of DIPA. I'm expecting this to produce flawless beer. I'd be happy to do a step by step picture or video tutorial that could be stickied.

 

[ikkyu]

Thanks guys. I am liking the 5-day starter plan though the drunken monk pitch-and-pray sounds intriguing. This saves me the expense of a stir plate in the short term (though I am sorely tempted to buy one). In the meantime, 48 hours late, my Corona bottle is looking more like a carboy.

 

[ikkyu]

BTW. I had a taste of this wort. Delicious!

 

[kapbrew13]

Thanks guys. I am liking the 5-day starter plan though the drunken monk pitch-and-pray sounds intriguing. This saves me the expense of a stir plate in the short term (though I am sorely tempted to buy one). In the meantime, 48 hours late, my Corona bottle is looking more like a carboy.

Is that Chinese Corona?

 

[ikkyu]

Is that Chinese Corona?

Japanese...I live in Yokohama

 

[suprchunk]

Japanese...I live in Yokohama

Mmm. Tires.

 

[ikkyu]

Mmm. Tires.

Yokohama is the birthplace of beer in Japan. A small brewery opened in 1870 and later was acquired by a larger distributor that eventually evolved into Kirin. This is also one of the epi-centers of the Japanese craft beer boom. Yokohama ain't just tires, my friend

 

[Revvy]

Have you tried harvesting any yeast from Hitachino Nest Beers from Kiuchi Brewery? The yeast they use sounds interesting, like a combination beer and saki yeast.

 

[suprchunk]

Yokohama is the birthplace of beer in Japan. A small brewery opened in 1870 and later was acquired by a larger distributor that eventually evolved into Kirin. This is also one of the epi-centers of the Japanese craft beer boom. Yokohama ain't just tires, my friend

Yokohama was a small fishing village up to the end of the feudal Edo period, when Japan held a policy of national seclusion, having little contact with foreigners.[3] A major turning point in Japanese history happened in 1853–54, when Commodore Matthew Perry arrived just south of Yokohama with a fleet of American warships, demanding that Japan open several ports for commerce, and the Tokugawa shogunate agreed by signing the Treaty of Peace and Amity.[4]
It was initially agreed that one of the ports to be opened to foreign ships would be the bustling town of Kanagawa-juku (in what is now Kanagawa Ward) on the Tōkaidō, a strategic highway that linked Edo to Kyoto and Osaka. However, the Tokugawa shogunate decided that Kanagawa-juku was too close to the Tōkaidō for comfort, and port facilities were instead built across the inlet in the sleepy fishing village of Yokohama. The Port of Yokohama was opened on 2 June 1859.


Landing of Commodore Perry, officers, and men of the squadron to meet the Imperial commissioners at Yokohama 14 July 1853. Lithograph by Sarony & Co., 1855, after Wilhelm Heine
Yokohama quickly became the base of foreign trade in Japan. Japan's first English language newspaper, the Japan Herald, was first published there in 1861. Foreigners occupied a district of the city called "Kannai" (関内, "inside the barrier"), which was surrounded by a moat, and were protected by their extraterritorial status both within and outside the moat. Many individuals crossed the moat, causing a number of problems. The Namamugi Incident, one of the events that preceded the downfall of the shogunate, took place in what is now Tsurumi Ward in 1862; Ernest Satow described it in A Diplomat in Japan.
After the Meiji Restoration of 1868, the port was developed for trading silk, the main trading partner being Great Britain. Many Western influences first reached Japan in Yokohama, including Japan's first daily newspaper (1870) and first gas-powered street lamps (1872). Japan's first railway was constructed in the same year to connect Yokohama to Shinagawa and Shinbashi in Tokyo. In the same year, Jules Verne set Yokohama, which he had never visited, in an episode of his widely-read Around the World in Eighty Days, capturing the atmosphere of a fast-developing, Western-oriented Japanese city.


Foreign ships in Yokohama harbor


A foreign trading house in Yokohama in 1861
In 1887, a British merchant, Samuel Cocking, built the city's first power plant. At first for his own use, this coal-burning plant became the basis for the Yokohama Cooperative Electric Light Company. The city was officially incorporated on 1 April 1889.[5] By the time the extraterritoriality of foreigner areas was abolished in 1899, Yokohama was the most international city in Japan, with foreigner areas stretching from Kannai to the Bluff area and the large Yokohama Chinatown.
The early 20th century was marked by rapid growth of industry. Entrepreneurs built factories along reclaimed land to the north of the city toward Kawasaki, which eventually grew to be the Keihin Industrial Area. The growth of Japanese industry brought affluence, and many wealthy trading families constructed sprawling residences there, while the rapid influx of population from Japan and Korea also led to the formation of Kojiki-Yato, then the largest slum in Japan.
Much of Yokohama was destroyed on 1 September 1923 by the Great Kantō earthquake. The Yokohama police reported casualties at 30,771 dead and 47,908 injured, out of a pre-earthquake population of 434,170.[6] Fuelled by rumours of rebellion and sabotage, vigilante mobs thereupon murdered many Koreans in the Kojiki-yato slum.[7] Many people believed that Koreans used black magic to cause the earthquake. Martial law was in place until 19 November. Rubble from the quake was used to reclaim land for parks, the most famous being the Yama****a Park on the waterfront which opened in 1930.
Yokohama was rebuilt, only to be destroyed again by thirty-odd U.S. air raids during World War II. An estimated seven or eight thousand people were killed in a single morning on 29 May 1945 in what is now known as the Great Yokohama Air Raid, when B-29s firebombed the city and in just one hour and nine minutes reduced 42% of it to rubble.[5]


During the Korean War, the United States Navy used Yokohama's port as a transshipment base. This ship departed Yokohama in 1951, carrying war dead home to the U.S.
During the American occupation, Yokohama was a major transshipment base for American supplies and personnel, especially during the Korean War. After the occupation, most local U.S. naval activity moved from Yokohama to an American base in nearby Yokosuka.
The city was designated by government ordinance on September 1, 1956.[citation needed]
The city's tram and trolleybus system was abolished in 1972, the same year as the opening of the first line of Yokohama Municipal Subway.


Landsat image of Yokohama
Construction of Minato Mirai 21 ("Port Future 21"), a major urban development project on reclaimed land, started in 1983. Minato Mirai 21 hosted the Yokohama Exotic Showcase in 1989, which saw the first public operation of maglev trains in Japan and the opening of Cosmo Clock 21, then the tallest Ferris wheel in the world. The 860m-long Yokohama Bay Bridge opened in the same year.
In 1993, Minato Mirai saw the opening of the Yokohama Landmark Tower, the tallest building in Japan.
The 2002 FIFA World Cup final was held in June at the International Stadium Yokohama.
In 2009, the city marked the 150th anniversary of the opening of the port and the 120th anniversary of the commencement of the City Administration. An early part in the commemoration project incorporated the Fourth Tokyo International Conference on African Development (TICAD IV) which was held in Yokohama in May 2008.
In November, 2010, Yokohama hosted the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) meeting.

 

[suprchunk]

My friend.

 

[ikkyu]

Revy, I may have a chance to visit the brewery so maybe I can get some yeast directly from the source. : )

 

[Revvy]

Revy, I may have a chance to visit the brewery so maybe I can get some yeast directly from the source. : )

That would be cool.