Yeast for Belgian Series

[distributistdad]

Hello All -

I'm planning a series of three beers from which to reuse yeast. Admittedly, this is my first go at this, so I am looking for input on my plan. I have the ingredients for these beers and two more extract brews before I am going to spend a weekend assembling a mash bin to switch to all-grain.

All that said, here goes the plan:

Yeast strain: WLP400

Beer #1: Belgian Wit

5.5 lbs - Breiss CBW Bavarian Wheat Lq Extract
1 lb - Breiss Light DME
.5 lb - Breiss Carapils

1 oz. - Hallertau @ 60 min.

.75 oz - Bitter Orange Peel @ 10 min.
1 Tbs - Crushed Coriander
1 Tbsp - Whole Wheat Flour

Beer #2: Holy Monk Pale Ale

6 lbs - Pale ME
.5 lb - Corn Sugar
4 oz each:
Caravienne
Carafoam
Aromatic
Biscuit

Hopping Schedule:
Saaz 1.2 oz 60 min
Saaz .4 oz 15 min
Saaz .2 oz 0 min


Beer #3: Belgian Strong

3/4 cup, Belgian special roast malt
3/4 cup, English crystal malt (80L)
10 pounds, Northwestern gold extract
1/4 pound, light brown sugar
1/4 teaspoon, cinnamon
1 teaspoon, Irish moss
1 ounce, Fuggles pellets (boil)
3/4 ounce, Cascade pellets (boil)
3/4 ounce, Saaz whole hops (1/2 hour)
3/4 ounce, Styrian Golding pellets (1/2 hour)
2 ounces, fresh Cascade (aroma, 15 minutes)
1/4 ounce, Saaz (finish)
1/2 ounce, Olympic pellets (finish)
1/2 ounce, Cascade pellets (finish)


When I brew this series, should I just pitch on top of the yeast cake? Especially since the beers are so similar? Would it be beneficial to build a starter, esp for the third, since there's so much fermentables in the brew?

Any suggestions would be appreiated. I'm planning to start this next weekend and should have the third one in the secondary by Easter. I'm thinking that I'll let it sit for 4-5 months before bottling and try it about Christmastime.

Go!

 

[1van]

I have really liked wlp500 for multiple belgian styles. I think its the Chimay strain. I would guess that if you do it in that order and just put the wort right onto the yeast cake by the time you get to the strong ale you will have plenty of yeast to handle it. WLP likes slightly warmer temps and I have heard of some people complaining of fermentation sticking around 1020-1025, although I have never experienced that . It can be vigorous so use a blow off and the krausen can be very persistent so you may help prevent a stuck fermentation by swirling it back into solution every so often. Im using 500 for a blonde and wit right now

 

[tre9er]

I use 500, though 400 will produce a nearly identical beer for strongs and dubbels, etc. Both are chewers and will really dry out a beer, especially the 500. I got tired of the 500 after brewing 4 or 5 beers with it. Too much clove, too dry/hot no matter the mash temp, just very juicy-fruity and not a good daily drinker, IMHO. If you plan to rarely drink these beers, go for it. I've bottled off most of my belgians for next fall/winter. Time for spring/summer beers now!

 

[distributistdad]

I use 500, though 400 will produce a nearly identical beer for strongs and dubbels, etc. Both are chewers and will really dry out a beer, especially the 500. I got tired of the 500 after brewing 4 or 5 beers with it. Too much clove, too dry/hot no matter the mash temp, just very juicy-fruity and not a good daily drinker, IMHO. If you plan to rarely drink these beers, go for it. I've bottled off most of my belgians for next fall/winter. Time for spring/summer beers now!

Sounds like either will work. First, it might be worthwhile to note that I am planning that with this Belgian Strong, and a few other beers later this year, I'm going to start a cellaring collection. I also don't drink even every day and when I do, I usually only have one or two. That said, everything you've said about the 500 sounds exactly like what I would want. We'll see about availability and take it from there.

 

[zmad2000]

I like your idea and will have to steal is later on. For the yeast i like the WLP500. I currently have a beer that use this yeast. Its aging now but the last sample i took was great. I also like the Ommegang yeast which you should be able to harvest it from any of their bottles.

 

[bknifefight]

3787 is my favorite Belgian yeast

 

[tagz]

400 is a great yeast, althoughi haven't used it in anything other than a wit. Ive always been curious though. It has wonderful fruity wit characteristics and a light tart edge. I've used 1214 and 3787 as well, both very tasty. 1214 I fruity/banana with some spicy alcohol notes. 3787 is a classic belgian flavor profile with a balance of spice and fruit. 3787 is probably the most versatile, but they all can produce fantastic beers.

 

[govner1]

I've used 3522 in a Belgian Tripel IPA & have a BPA in primary w/ it now. Great yeast.

 

[ZombieBrew83]

I love Belgian style beers and have used quite a few yeast strains in my batches. Here are some notes from my experiences:

3944: Crisp, dry, spicy, refreshing. Get's your FG down and makes a delicious Wit.
3942: Similar to 3944 only a little more fruit flavor and softer spice note. Still dry. I prefer this strain in my wheat/wit brews.
WLP500: Good balance of fruit and spice. Smooth plumb aroma and flavors. Versitile strain that can be used across Belgian beer styles.
3711: Very dry and crisp. Floral aroma along with spice and subtle Saison "funk". Some fruityness but not as much as the Trappist or abbey strains.
3522: More fruity than spicy but the spice note is there. Fruit esthers taste/smell like apples and pears. Another wonderful all-around Belgian strain.
3787: More spice than 3522 and WLP500 but considered balanced. Clove, banana, dried figs.
1214: Similar to WLP500

Keep in mind that Belgian strains very with pitch rate and fermentation temperature much more than most other strains. My notes could be different from others' experience. I suggest you checkout Wyeast and White Labs' websites. They have pretty good descriptions of each yeast along with the styles to brew with them.

Another good resource is the recipe section here. Look for recipes with different strains and the descriptions of the finished product along with the fermentation conditions used to get them.

 

[peterj]

This sounds like a good idea and I think either yeast (WLP400 or 500) would give you a great series!

When I brew this series, should I just pitch on top of the yeast cake? Especially since the beers are so similar? Would it be beneficial to build a starter, esp for the third, since there's so much fermentables in the brew?

I would definitely not ever pitch on top of any whole yeast cake ever. Using an entire yeast cake is almost always going to be a massive over pitch. And pitching too much yeast can lead to off flavors and the underproduction of those esters and phenols you really want with Belgians. I would definitely harvest some slurry and maybe make a starter between beers. Use the Mr. Malty calculator to figure out the correct pitching rate (http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html).

Also, you need to make sure you are very sanitary in your entire process. When harvesting and repitching yeast you have more of a chance of picking up an infection and more time for the bacteria to gain a foothold.

Oh yeah, and in that last recipe you said 3/4 cup of crystal and special roast. I'm guessing you meant pounds not cups?

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[distributistdad]

Hi all,

Posting an update -- brewed beer #1 on Monday. I did alter the recipe slightly, using 1/2 wheat LME, 1/2 pale LME and Saaz instead of the Hallertau hops.

Pitched a vial of WL 500 into it at 75, and it took almost 60 hours for fermentation to begin. Bubbled pretty good for a couple days, now has slowed to about 30 seconds between bubbles.

I am anticipating that this will need to sit in the primary for a while yet -- The warmest part of my house has the bucket at about 64, not ideal, I know, but I'm too cheap to turn up the heat.

At any rate, perhaps by next weekend I'll be able to rack this and brew the Belgian Pale Ale, I'm planning on saving the yeast from this batch and just holding on to the remaining jars until I can get in contact with some local brewers who might want to swap yeast. I will say that the crushed coriander was amazing going in, I can't wait to taste the finished product.

 

[tagz]

65 is plenty warm for the chimay yeast. If fermentation kicks things up to 70, you're going to have a good amount of banana and some spicy alcohol notes. You may have to let it condition for a bit. My first batch smoothed out considerably after a few weeks. I ran this last batch at 62-63 (wort temp) and its considerably spicier (less banana).

 

[distributistdad]

Alright, so as with many things in life, this plan is a bit behind schedule. I just racked the first beer off the yeast cake. Final gravity was right around 1.010-1.012. The coriander and orange peel kept plugging up the end of the siphon, so I had a little bit of beer left in the bottom of the fermentation bucket. Added a little bit of sterile water and poured out a half gallon of trub / yeast. Once separated, I poured the yeast into 4 smaller half pint jars. I'll probably make a starter up tomorrow with one of the jars and pitch that into beer #2.

I will say that beer number one smelled amazing - my wife was in the other room and kept saying how great it smelled as I was siphoning it in the kitchen.

Ignorance is one thing but I now know why serious homebrewers pretty much use Wyeast and White labs -- the yeast makes an enormous difference.

Thanks for all the help fellas!

 

[distributistdad]

Well, I still haven't gotten around to brewing beer #2. That being said, I have bottled the Wit and will share some observations:

First, the beer is good. Quite good. Conditioning will, I think, bring out some more notes from the yeast, but as it stands this beer has tons of citrus aroma with a nice coriander spice. Actually, the aroma is far stronger than it actually tastes. The head is creamy and lingering and adds a dimension to the beer that I didn't get at all when tasting prior to bottling.

I do think that I can already tell that it's a little dry and not as sweet as I expected. I think that I can attribute that to the yeast and the fact that it finished this beer a little bit lower than expected (1.010).

Need to refill my propane bottle and get the second batch going. I was postponing because I have the money to build an immersion chiller, but after doing some research I'm going to build one big enough for 10 gallon batches and will need some assistance from a buddy with some soldering.

I also want to say that HBT has been an invaluable place to research this hobby. I am quite indebted to those regular contributors and just wanted to say thanks!

 

[distributistdad]

Update:

I've now brewed beer #2 - I simply pitched a slurry from the first batch after bringing it to room temp. Brewed on Sat. night, had bubbles in the airlock within 24 hours and yesterday it was particularly vigorous.

The first beer is the best homebrew I've made to date, the yeast has given it a nice spicy clove taste. Partly because of the base extract (1/2 pale, 1/2 wheat) it has a less sweet taste than I was expecting and I attempted to make it "hazeless", so it looks a little more like a Belgian Farmhouse ale than a wit, but that's ok. It's still a tasty brew that our friends who have tried it have really enjoyed.

Once the BPA is done fermenting, I'll brew the Belgian strong and pitch slurry for it too, since it'll be fresh and I'll have plenty of it.

Cheers!

 

[distributistdad]

I've now brewed the final beer, a Belgian Strong. I a lot has occured so I'll try to get to the point.

Brewed 8/17 - pitched half a cake of slurry from the BPA, it was about four weeks old when used.

The beer started in the 1.102 range and has came down to 1.030 in about 20 days, seemed to be stuck at that point.

It was in my basement (was still 72-74 degrees), but I thought that I'd try moving it upstairs and warm it up a little and also adgitated the bucket to rouse up some of the cake, but did so carefully so as to not slosh the beer around.

It's dropped to 1.028 but isn't going anywhere anymore. I've checked the gravity every other day for a week, and it seems to be staying put.

Taste-wise, I love it - it's malty and sweet, spicy, smells of dried fruit and has a really nice burn from all the alcohol. There isn't any banana or clove in it, but I suppose that might come with time.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. 1.028 seems too high to be done, what do you all think? Is there anything that a seasoned brewer would suggest to get maybe 6-8 more points out of that yeast? Is my only option at this point to buy another vial and make a starter? Is it perhaps done -- if so am I going to have bottle bombs on my hands in a few months?

I appreciate your input in advance!