Wyeast smack packs

[Brewhemoth]

I have had some trouble with the smack packs on my last two batches. I think the simple answer is to make a starter, but was hoping for some insight into the problem.

my last two packs have not swelled properly. I understand that they do not necessarily have to swell all the way so i was not so worried.

I have two lightbulb shaped 20L carboys. my two previous batches were about 1.060 to 1.070. I aerate well, and there is about a 2 inch white frothy head after shacking the carboy. I pitched the packs and wait. nothing happens until the white froth has dissipated, which is about 4 days later! i am not sure why it takes so long for the froth from aeration to go down, and am worried about the 4 day lag period between pitch and yeast activity. it starts slow but within ~24 hours of fermentation starting it kicks off and ferments vigorously for a number of days.

my questions: is there any problem with the lag between pitch and fermentation starting?

would a started even help?

should i expect off flavors?

I think the pitch rate is a little bit under. the packs were no more than 3 months old (after production date)

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Are you sure it's froth from aeration 4days later and not the krausen of fermentation on top? I would think you're ok. Generally you would want to make a starter for anything over 1.050. I think your batch will turn out ok. They say not to expect visual signs of fermentation for upto 72hrs so I wouldn't worry too much. As long as you're conditions were sanitary you should be fine.

 

[flars]

When I pitch dry yeast, and there is a lot froth from aeration, I will swirl the carboy to get the yeast into the wort. Liquid yeast plus some of the starter wort usually goes through the froth directly under the funnel. Try swirling or shaking your carboy the next time you pitch. The shaking and extra aeration will not cause problems with the yeast or the wort.

The long lag time can give bacteria a chance to build a high population. The late alcohol production may not be able to contain the population growth.

A starter with one pack of yeast would be the solution and save money. A starter can be made with any type of container of sufficient size.

Keep the fermentation temmperature around 62° to 65° and off flavors will not be a problem.

 

[Culbetron]

For a 1.070 beer you should pitch a 3.5 liter starter made from a yeast pack or pitch 2.6 yeast packs.

mrmalty.com has the info

 

[Brewhemoth]

Sweet. thanks guys!

I am almost certain it is not krausen forming yet - it is too light (white froth) and it dissipates completely, leaving a clear layer on top of the beer and then a new layers slowly builds from fermentation. I know that it takes time before visual confirmation of fermentation happens but this is just longer than what i am used to.


Temp has been solid 17.8C so i do expect a clean fermentation with minimal a esters etc.

I also do give the carboy a good swirl/shake right after pitching so i don't expect that it just gets caught in the foam and sits as sometimes happens with dry yeast.

in any case, thanks for your $0.02 guys! will let you know once they are done to see what has happened.

I am trying a slight variation on the old nut case brown ale from Radical brewing, with some oats, home toasted brown malt and a bit of cinamon. I think we will do .5 Vanilla bean in secondary.

have a good one all!

 

[Brewhemoth]

Quick update: after each of these batches had a late start and then fermented vigorously for +/- 4 days (one actually popped the bung off the carboy) I left them for about 14 days in primary. Both appear to be under attenuated (both are exactly 1.022).
Sitting in secondary with some vanilla beans

Any advise on
1) getting them to finish out with another 5 points?
2) the use of vanilla beans?

 

[chuckstout]

Add some suger to your secondary or fruit that might jump start fermentation.

As far as your smackpack is concerned you should pop it early to make sure they are strong. I wsrm my up to room temp smack it and if it doesnt swell properly I dont brew if my planned OG 1.050 or less. Otherwise im making a starter anyhow.

 

[Brewhemoth]

Thanks chuckstout. Just a bit worried about adding sugar now because I don't want an alcohol bite on either of these. Think that might happen? Both are sitting at 20.5C right now. Maybe a small pitch of champaign or us05?

I will start smacking the night before. Or maybe take the plunge an start mak

 

[Brewhemoth]

Thanks chuckstout. Just a bit worried about adding sugar now because I don't want an alcohol bite on either of these. Think that might happen? Both are sitting at 20.5C right now. Maybe a small pitch of champaign or us05?

I will start smacking the night before. Or maybe take the plunge an start making starters. Do you throw the whole starter batch into your primary? Do you harvest the yeast first and leave the liquid behind?

 

[Brewhemoth]

Sorry guys this is now turning into more of a recipe/chemistry question. I can also go and repost a new one in the appropriate forum if you don't want to answer here

At transfer both were a little more harsh than expected and lacked a bit of the malty sweetness. I'm almost sure it is the roast not the hops

Do u think I could boast the fullness/sweetness by adding a bit of chloride to secondary?

I just listened to a basic brewing episode on ipa's where they boost hop presence by adding gypsum (sulphate). Do you think that doin some chloride at bottling could boost the sweeter malts?

 

[chuckstout]

There would be a lot more questions about a specific recipe to solve the problem. Im just speaking in general. I.e. your grist, water (tap, bottled,well) mash temp, thermometer set properly, how long you mashed in, your equipment dondadadont.

I cant help with water chemistry, i have any adjusted for taste over time. I use gypsum in almost all my brews and calcium carbonate if my srm goes over 20, plus yeast nutrient from my lhbs, just trusted them (run a brewery also) and dont know what salts they are.

 

[midfielder5]

You severely underpitched the number of yeast cells needed to fully ferment your beer, so I'd say those yeast are done. It can be hard to get it down the last few points- It might be necessary to pitch the beer onto another yeast cake. Brew another beer, hopefully with dry yeast (or if you persist with liquid- pitch two+ packs or make an appropriate sized starter). Make it an easy quick turn time beer, like a blonde or pale ale. When you bottle that beer in 14 days, transfer this one onto that cake.
good luck.