Wyeast 3724

[bad raccoon brewing]

Hello! Fermentation question for the experts:

I'm brewing a saison using Wyeast 3724 (one packet for a 5-gallon batch). The recipe spit out an OG of 1.075 and FG 1.016 for ABV of about 7.74%. In reality, my OG was about 1.070. As many have experienced, this yeast has been slooooooow. I put this batch into the fermentor on 8/24 at about 80°. It started attenuating almost immediately and strongly throughout the night. By the next day, however, the airlock was barely bubbling and continued to barely bubble ever since (I'm posting this on 9/16).

Here's a quick timeline on gravity:

Temperature started at about 80° on 8/24 and climbed to about 86° on 8/25 before gradually falling back to a low of 77° on 9/8:

8/24 OG 1.070
9/2 SG 1.033

At this point I wrapped it in a heater and jacket and raised it to 90° from 9/8 through 9/10, which produced a little more vigorous action in the airlock (but not much) and then raised it to 93°, where it's been ever since:

9/11 SG 1.021
9/16 SG 1.018

Since 9/14 it has been bubbling extremely weakly and appears to be about done. Given the values (OG 1.070 and FG 1.018) ABV would be about 6.83%.

I'm planning to take another reading in a few days to see if there's been more progress. If not, the big question for me is, is this really done? I don't want a partially fermented brew, and I definitely don't want a basement full of bottle bombs. Advice welcomed!

 

[dmtaylor]

If memory serves, this yeast is very sensitive to CO2 dissolved in the beer. Maybe swirl the fermenter twice a day and see if that helps.

 

[bad raccoon brewing]

Assuming activity doesn't start up again (and it's not looking great, I must admit), what do I do? Re-pitch? What strain? Any tips?

 

[dmtaylor]

Assuming activity doesn't start up again (and it's not looking great, I must admit), what do I do? Re-pitch? What strain? Any tips?

One other thing you could try is to dry hop it, if you haven't already. Hops contain enzymes, which could break down the dextrins a little more to where you could see a significant decrease in gravity.

Otherwise, if it's done, it's done. Might just need to drink it and enjoy it the way it is.

 

[IslandLizard]

Since 9/14 it has been bubbling extremely weakly

Well, weakly is better than nothing. I'd let it be for another 3-4 weeks.

WY3724 is the Dupont strain, she can be finicky, doesn't seem to like any back pressure either, even from an airlock. She can auto resume given time, so there is hope.

In my first encounter with the strain I've had it finally finish after 3 months at 70F (only primary), but still not as low as I intended and had hoped for. But it could have been due to mashing not quite low enough, and having a small amount of crystal in there too.

 

[IslandLizard]

One other thing you could try is to dry hop it, if you haven't already. Hops contain enzymes, which could break down the dextrins a little more to where you could see a significant decrease in gravity.

Otherwise, if it's done, it's done. Might just need to drink it and enjoy it the way it is.

If it's indeed due to unfermentables, add some alpha (oops...) gluco amylase to the beer (or perhaps Beano). And give it more time.

 

[passedpawn]

If it's indeed due to unfermentables, add some alpha (oops...) gluco amylase to the beer (or perhaps Beano). And give it more time.

Before you do that, pitch a pouch of Wyeast 3711 in there and stand back. Thank me later. @bad raccoon brewing

In fact, this is how I’ve made many saisson. 3724 for a couple of weeks, piitch 3711, put on back patio in 90F heat.

 

[dmtaylor]

Before you do that, pitch a pouch of Wyeast 3711 in there and stand back. Thank me later. @bad raccoon brewing

In fact, this is how I’ve made many saisson. 3724 for a couple of weeks, piitch 3711, put on back patio in 90F heat.

Or instead of 3711, try the dry Belle Saison yeast. It's the same, and easier and cheaper.

 

[MikeCo]

Or instead of 3711, try the dry Belle Saison yeast. It's the same, and easier and cheaper.

Safale BE-134 is another dry saison yeast that will ferment just about anything also.

 

[passedpawn]

Or instead of 3711, try the dry Belle Saison yeast. It's the same, and easier and cheaper.

Safale BE-134 is another dry saison yeast that will ferment just about anything also.

Right and right. I haven't used those, but the important thing for the OP is to use a yeast that is the diastaticus variant, which ensures very high fermentability of the wort (likely get 90% attenuation). Those two that you guys mention, as well as the 3711, are all this variant of yeast.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I'm brewing a saison using Wyeast 3724 (one packet for a 5-gallon batch). The recipe spit out an OG of 1.075

My first tip would be to look closer at your pitch rates. One pack of Wyeast is probably about 1/3 the amount needed for this batch. I would look at starters, pitching multiple packs, yeast from Omega/Imperial or dry yeast.

Given the values (OG 1.070 and FG 1.018) ABV would be about 6.83%.

Given that you are bottling, I would be worried about bottling a diastatic Saison yeast at that high of a gravity. The Dupont strain is not as attenuative as some Saison strains, but I would expect closer to 1.010 or 1.012 (though that would depend a bit on the recipe). Pitching a pack of dry yeast is not a bad option. This could be a Saison strain, or a generic yeast like US-05. Or just giving the batch a few more weeks in the fermenter.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Just wait. It’s a great yeast. Bit quirky but definitely worth the wait.

I’m future 3726 is very similar in character with no slowing down.

 

[bad raccoon brewing]

Great advice from many here, as usual--thank you!

I decided to re-pitch 3711, which I did a few days ago. Has been bubbling away nicely (not too aggressively, but certainly steady). I figure I'll give 10 days or so (particularly if all action appears to have stopped) and then (hopefully...) a final gravity check before bottling. Anything south of 1.010 would be great...

Incidentally, I usually have no trouble pitching a single pack, even with gravity in the 1.075 range. On my last brew (a smoked rye porter at 1.065 OG) I used 2 packs. It went berserk! The fermenter absolutely erupted through the airlock. Hugh mess. Figured I should stick to one pack going forward, but obviously not in this case.

 

[dmtaylor]

Be patient with the 3711. It will likely take 3-4 weeks to reach FG 1.002. It is effective, but very slow. You wouldn't want to bottle too early, or you'll get gushers or explosions.

 

[bad raccoon brewing]

Be patient with the 3711. It will likely take 3-4 weeks to reach FG 1.002. It is effective, but very slow. You wouldn't want to bottle too early, or you'll get gushers or explosions.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[passedpawn]

Be patient with the 3711. It will likely take 3-4 weeks to reach FG 1.002. It is effective, but very slow. You wouldn't want to bottle too early, or you'll get gushers or explosions.

I second this, especially because you're bottling. This yeast releases enzymes as it ferments, making your wort more and more fermentable. Bottling too early = ker-BANG!

 

[bad raccoon brewing]

Brief update for all you patient people. In all, this brew spent 52 days in the fermenter, which is crazy-long for me. The gravity eventually got down to about 1.008, which seems to be about the bottom for this one. I primed it with a little honey and bottled it about a week ago. I'll try to update once I taste it in another week or so.

 

[dmtaylor]

You know, it's funny.... right after we started this conversation, I had the same thing happen to my Belgian patersbier/IPA. It went from 1.033 to a stall at 1.016, not just for a little while, but for a whole MONTH before I finally added Belle Saison (same as 3711), and here's how it looks right now.

That OG of 1.033 reminds me... I need to add some friggin sugar to this batch as well! Maybe if/when/after it stalls again.

 

[bad raccoon brewing]

Success! Cracked one open the other day. Highly carbonated, good flavor, nice balance. Really pleased with it.

I brewed this one as a surprise for my son's wedding. Thanks for all the help!

 

[scrap iron]

Sounds great, I'm glad it worked out for you. I was reading a thread on Wy 3726, and someone mentioned 3724 and advise from Wyeast.
"If you cannot run your ferment at 90 with the Dupont strain, then plan on a very long and drawn out primary (weeks to a couple of months). If you can ferment at 90, then it will finish (and finish very complete) within days. A 75-degree F ferment could take a couple of months."

I've used 3726 a bunch of times and had it come out great. You might try it next time and compare. I'm going to try 3724 with the above advise and compare the two. Here is the thread I read if you are interested.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/farmhouse-ale-wyeast-3726.75216/