Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[runs4beer]

This isn't the first I've washed but its the first I really came up with a plan for after reading this.
So, I mail orders the smack pack two years ago (it had a 3/17/2009 made on date) and made a starter. From the starter I kept 10-20ml of thick slurry and brewed a 1.045 batch with the rest of it. From that yeast cake I washed and kept (5) 6oz mason jars and brewed all summer with them.
The following year, (last summer) I made a 3 step starter from the 10-20ml I had reserved (100ml>500ml>2L) and from that I again reserved 10-20ml which I fired up in May and did it all over again for next year.
Then, after that, I went and got W3711 tattooed on my left cheek.:rockin:

 

[mugglesport]

Damn. I guess I need to learn to wash yeast!

 

[ChshreCat]

When I washed mine, 3711 was still a one time only special Wyeast was offering. So, when my wife dumped out the jars, I thought that was the last of the yeast I'd ever have my hands on. I was quite happy a few weeks later when Wyeast announced it was going to be a regular item.

 

[bigbeergeek]

Damn. I guess I need to learn to wash yeast!

here ya go:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

 

[lukem5]

hey uhh, can I pick this yeast up anywhere? It seems everyone is sold out since wyeast (temporarily) decided to stop making it, has wyeast shipped out new ones yet? I want this yeast damnit!

 

[smagee]

I've purchased yeast from Rebel Brewer several times and had good experiences. EDIT: Oops, they appear to be out of stock. My mistake...

That said, Adventures in Homebrewing still appears to have stock, and that's where I got my last pack from.

 

[petep1980]

I was a little disappointed in this yeast in secondary. In a week it went from 1.010 to 1.008 @ 75F.

Do you think I should save it out of secondary?

 

[DannPM]

I was a little disappointed in this yeast in secondary. In a week it went from 1.010 to 1.008 @ 75F.

Do you think I should save it out of secondary?

Why did you use a secondary? At 1.010? How long did it sit in the primary?

 

[petep1980]

Why did you use a secondary? At 1.010? How long did it sit in the primary?

Experimentation. I used Wyeast 3944 in primary, and it was in primary 1 week. I made a previous batch exclusively with 3711 and I liked some of the flavor, but it's beginning to come off "as a bit much". Since it's so highly attenuative I was hoping it'd get down closer to 1.004 or so and I would get some flavor from it, but not black pepper heaven.

 

[tesilential]

Did you pitch a pretty good starter? Or did you just pitch a smack pack?

 

[petep1980]

Did you pitch a pretty good starter? Or did you just pitch a smack pack?

Activator smack pack. 5 gallons of wort at 1.010 with a date of 6/11/11 = no starter required.

 

[Jboggeye]

so you fermented with another yeast and added a smack pack in the 1.01 beer (no longer wort)? What was the OG on the original batch?

 

[petep1980]

so you fermented with another yeast and added a smack pack in the 1.01 beer (no longer wort)? What was the OG on the original batch?

1.041 I believe.

 

[Jboggeye]

pitching into an already fermented beer is tricky, I would have probably made a starter and pitched at high krausen. Still, it's hard to say how a yeast SHOULD behave in beer and not wort...

As for harvesting out of the secondary, in this case it's prob ok, BUT won't you also be getting yeast from previous pitch?

 

[petep1980]

As for harvesting out of the secondary, in this case it's prob ok, BUT won't you also be getting yeast from previous pitch?

Almost certainly I figure.

 

[erikb]

Does 3711 need to be made into a starter or just the smack pack?

 

[Jboggeye]

Does 3711 need to be made into a starter or just the smack pack?

all yeast need to be made into a starter above a certain gravity/size of a batch. Making a starter is easy and makes a big difference in the quality of the beer.

 

[erikb]

all yeast need to be made into a starter above a certain gravity/size of a batch. Making a starter is easy and makes a big difference in the quality of the beer.

Thanks Jboggeye - Being a noob, can you tell me what size and gravity is the limit?

 

[Jboggeye]

I would make one for anything over 1.04, but it gets more complicated. PM me with questions so as to not get off topic here. I love helping out new brewers, it gets me to look back at my own practices.

 

[JLW]

erikb, starters are extremely important in getting a fast fermentation start and having enough yeasties that they don;t stress themselves while fermenting and thus putting off flavors in your beer. It's a lesson i wish I had understood early in my brewing career. Last weekend I brewed a chocolate peppermint baltic porter with a starting gravity of approx 1.080 and pitched 2.5 liter starter (about 250 billion cells) I had fermentation within 4 hours.

Read up on starters here and use the calculator under tools:

http://www.mrmalty.com/

 

[runs4beer]

I gave up on re-pitching yeast that was anything but a starter in high krausen 2-3 times was all the disappointing I could handle. I have drop a stuck dark strong Belgian from 1.024 to 1.012 this way w/ 3711, if you have/can get another pack then try making starter this time.

 

[petep1980]

I gave up on re-pitching yeast that was anything but a starter in high krausen 2-3 times was all the disappointing I could handle. I have drop a stuck dark strong Belgian from 1.024 to 1.012 this way w/ 3711, if you have/can get another pack then try making starter this time.

Thanks for all the info folks. I RDWHAHB on this batch, and do it correctly next time.

 

[JLW]

Thanks for all the info folks. I RDWHAHB on this batch, and do it correctly next time.

If you give that beer a good hard swirl and move to a warm location it may kick into gear again.

 

[houndsbreath]

Meh, I think starters are unnecessary UNLESS you're using harvested / washed yeast or are paranoid about infection. I just pitched the inflated smack pack 3711 straight in a Belgian IPA (OG = 1064) and it started visibly fermenting within 8 hours & came out great. Fermented 2 weeks at 70F and FG dropped to 1005. Dry, hoppy, earthy/spicy and delicious. I've completed 13 batches and used starters in 2; I believe smack packs give you plenty of healthy yeast to pitch.

 

[DannPM]

Meh, I think starters are unnecessary UNLESS you're using harvested / washed yeast or are paranoid about infection. I just pitched the inflated smack pack 3711 straight in a Belgian IPA (OG = 1064) and it started visibly fermenting within 8 hours & came out great. Fermented 2 weeks at 70F and FG dropped to 1005. Dry, hoppy, earthy/spicy and delicious. I've completed 13 batches and used starters in 2; I believe smack packs give you plenty of healthy yeast to pitch.

That's great you like what you made but you won't make anything commercial quality without using a starter with liquid yeast, I guarantee it.

 

[edb23]

i disagree. If the gravity's under like 1060 the normal size package of white labs or wyeast is about the cell count most people recommend.

 

[jmo88]

i disagree. If the gravity's under like 1060 the normal size package of white labs or wyeast is about the cell count most people recommend.

You can't really make a blanket statement like that for all beers under 1.060; the packaging date and handling has a large effect on the viability of the yeast. Part of the reason many people make starters is to offset this decrease in viability, it's not just to make beers bigger than 1.060.

 

[runs4beer]

i disagree. If the gravity's under like 1060 the normal size package of white labs or wyeast is about the cell count most people recommend.

Well, this might need to be a new thread. edb23, open a new thread in this section with the quote above or ask what the threash hold is for requireing a starter when you want want to make the very best beer you can. If you are referring only to a saison with 3711 then yes a good beer can be made with out a starter but as the thread will tell you this a yeast of a different beast.

 

[edb23]

Ha i don't think i need a new thread, i make starters when i feel i need them taking viability and all that into account. I was just saying as a rule of thumb low/medium gravity beers do just fine without a starter, especially when you're using a thug yeast like 3711

 

[BigRob]

For 3711 I agree, underpitching gets you more of the flavours you're after in a Saison.

Otherwise, I'd say there's a lot of threads here (as well as info on the interweb) that seems to indicate that viable cell counts are pretty important, backed up with a fair bit of science, competition scores, etc.