Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[ChshreCat]

I used one smack pack on mine and it started at 1.060. Pitched at about midnight and it was just starting to form bubbles on the surface the next morning and had thick krausen at 8pm that evening when I got home.

I'm sure you'll be just fine with two, although some of the hardcore starter folks might say otherwise.

 

[Chef Stress]

Brewed with 3711 about 2 weeks ago (8/1). We made a Liter starter out of one smack pack and split that between two carboys for our 10 gallon batch. With in 12 hours they were both bubblin like mad. One of the fermenters had a thick krausen, the other no krausen at all, we were worried, but they both smelled great. They've just quit bubbling, we're not taking samples, but I'd say based on fermentation time that we got a good attenuation. OG was 1.055.

My question about 3711 is about temp., we brewed in the mountains, and left it outside to ferment (in coolers), so I know temp didn't go over 77F then, but a week ago I drove them back to my apt in NY, where's it's been over 90F for a few days, these things def. went into the 80s.

Anyone else ferment the 3711 hot?

Thanks,

Stressy

 

[B-Dub]

Just put this batch on tap and one in the cold fridge for aging. One batch is planned for bottles and some brett.

For 2 weeks old this beer is looking to be very nice! Really needs more time, but the way I figure it, this brew will age for a few weeks before we really get into it.

Very clean and fruity! Loving the Halls and Saaz in the late addition. The temps were on the low side, mid 70's at the end.

Next one is 100% Pils and going to be fermented in the 70's and 80's.

Any else have this on tap yet??

 

[kyleobie]

This yeast sounds awesome. I'm going to buy this one for my upcoming brew!

 

[philrose]

One batch is planned for bottles and some brett.

Sour Saison is good stuff! I got a chance to try boulevard's bretted saison on my 3711 brewday (thanks 'topia) and it was my fav of the day.

 

[ChshreCat]

Loving the Halls and Saaz in the late addition.

You put cough drops in your wort?

 

[Schlenkerla]

I brewed a Saison last summer with this 3711 strain. I made a very very nice Saison w/o any spices. Its very balanced, fruity and quite dry.

This beer needs time to age in the secondary and in the bottle. When I racked this to my bottling bucket it looked very clean and clear. Almost like a brilliant cider. It tasted great too

Once I put this beer in the bottle and let it carb, everything changed. The priming roused the yeast almost made it unpalatable for a while. The yeast needed to settle down.

Right now all of the bottles I have left, roughly a case of bombers, are pristinely clear. Once you put one in the fridge it will get very cloudy. Let it sit for a month or two and it will clear up good again.

Taste-wise the flavor is different whether its cloudy or clear. Clear being better.

Right now this beer is awesome. Either quick chilled or bottle lagered for a few months.

I submitted this beer for a PRO-AM and won by leaps and bounds, but the brewery decided not to go to GABF.

Raison d' Saison

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

16-C Belgian & French Ale, Saison

Min OG: 1.048 Max OG: 1.080
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 45
Min Clr: 5 Max Clr: 12 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 6.00 Wort Size (Gal): 6.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 14.13
Anticipated OG: 1.064 Plato: 15.70
Anticipated SRM: 4.9
Anticipated IBU: 26.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
74.3 10.50 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
5.3 0.75 lbs. Wheat Malt Belgium 1.038 2
5.3 0.75 lbs. Munich Malt Belgium 1.038 8
0.9 0.13 lbs. CaraMunich 60 France 1.034 60
14.2 2.00 lbs. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.75 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 26.8 60 min.
0.75 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

Wyeast 3711 French Saison Yeast


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 12.13
Water Qts: 16.37 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 4.09 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.35 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 147 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 170 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 10


Total Mash Volume Gal: 5.06 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.



Notes
-----

Boil 90 minutes to reduce DMS. Ferment @ 68F ramp to 80F. Should ferment down 1.012 if not add dry champagne yeast. (Didn't need it - went to 1.000)

Ferment no higher than 75F.

Bottle condition for a few months prior to drinking. Recomend bottle lagering too for 1-2 months.

Save this beer for special occasions. Its well worth keeping!

 

[B-Dub]

You put cough drops in your wort?

I think it adds that certain something you don't get in other beers!

 

[Ravenhead]

I have now used 3711 twice, once last year and a month ago. A year ago I brewed the extract with steeping grains Ete in Zymurgy at it turned out pretty good. I sent a few bottles with my wife to San Diego to share with some of our pro brewing friends. The message I got back was... That was the best damn extract homebrew they had ever tasted! Not bad, I thought.

So, in late July I brewed the all grain version of the same beer but added another pound of Belgian candi sugar. What the hell...I thought if 1 was good, 2 would be better. According to BeerSmith the OG at 75% efficiency should be 1.071 (sorry guys I didn't take a reading after I brewed. In my more recent batches I have begun to use the Hydrometer). So I took a gravity reading after 2 weeks of fermenting in the big cold water bucket... the hydrometer reading was 1.006... I pulled it out of the bucket and let it sit a room temp for a couple hours and fermentation kicked back up. I did drink the Hydro sample... it's gonna be good, boys, it's gonna be good. So tomorrow into the secondary, another reading, another month in the jug and a taste of the sample. I am hooked on 3711. Good stuff, yo.:rockin:

 

[philrose]

I am hooked on 3711. Good stuff, yo.:rockin:

+1 to that, Oh yeah!

 

[gxm]

I'd be curious if anyone who used 3724 might try the same or a similar recipe with 3711 to how they compare flavor wise.

Last week I split a 10 gallon Saison batch with 5g 3711 & 5g 3724.

I used 1 pint of yeast cake (trub and yeast) for the 3711 and it went from 1.065 to 1.008 in 3 days, fermenting at 74F. I used a 2qt starter for 3724, and it went from 1.052 to 1.028 in 3 days fermenting at 80F.
I put the 3711 gravity sample in the fridge for a day, and today gave SWMBO a taste. She said it is one of her fave beers (despite flatness), then I told her it was 4 days old. She didn't believe me. I am very happy with the flavor so far, as it doesn't taste green at all.

I saw someone else said this yeast might go into the regular rotation for Wyeast, and that would make me happy, even though I already have some yeast bank samples of it.

 

[HoppyDaze]

this yeast is amazing! I brewed my Saison with an OG of 1.068 and it fermented out to 1.004 in 3 days! 81F (I did not make a starter) ...thats an ABV of 8.5% It tasted smooth and delicious (hydro sample) Im thinking if it tased that good warm and flat that it is going to be amazing when carbed up and ice cold!

I totally plan on using the yeast over and over...

So can I wash this yeast by throwing say a half gallon of store bought distilled water (sanatize the lid) in the trub? Or should I always boil the water first?

 

[ChshreCat]

So can I wash this yeast by throwing say a half gallon of store bought distilled water (sanatize the lid) in the trub? Or should I always boil the water first?

There's evidence out that distilled water is bad for yeast. Not having any minerals or anything in the water causes the yeast cells to be damaged by osmotic pressure.

I was lazy and just used regular bottled drinking water when I washed my yeast, but I wasn't planning on storing it for very long. Part of the reason for boiling is to drive off oxygen so the yeast will more likely go (or stay) dormant when you wash them.

 

[HoppyDaze]

that makes sense....I might as well just do it the right way to start so I can have a good healthy supply of this stuff

 

[EvilGnome6]

There's evidence out that distilled water is bad for yeast. Not having any minerals or anything in the water causes the yeast cells to be damaged by osmotic pressure.

I've been trying to find sources that confirm this. There are plenty of sources that say that using distilled water to wash yeast is common practice. I ran across this discussion in HBD that claims distilled water does not cause osmotic pressure:

Still the point is this. Distilled water is the reference and has 0
pressure on the scale (distilled is the 0 pt reference). Burton water has
about 20-25 millimoles of ions and so applies an osmotic pressure around
9psi. The internal pressure from dissimilar ions forms a much greater
internal pressure than this minor external force. The water ions from
minerals or lack thereof probably are insignificant against the 350+mMol of
non-permeable sugars and dextrins in wort or the 900mMol of ethanol in beer.
[[Note every Mol of maltose fermented produces 4 moles of ethanol - and a
huge attendant increase in OS-pressure]].

> Specifically, if someone was to use RO/distilled water to
> wash their yeast, would this significantly affect yeast viability?

As compared to Burton water ? No. It's like 9psi difference in cells that
will handle 300+ psi and probably 400psi in finished beer. The change is
that the external non-permeables in beer will go from pushing the cell
membrane inward with the mechanical differential of say 350psi minus the
cell internal 30psi. in distilled water the pressure is just the 30psi of
the internal cell solute pushing outward.

>Could it cause the yeast to actually autolyse?

Yes, but not due to pressure. Exposing yeast to oxygen during washing
causes them to burn off glycogen stores and some trehalose to make sterols
from squalene. This reduces the storage life of stored yeast after exposure
to oxygen. Also after water washing (and maybe storage) you *may* get
shock excretion. As you pitch the cells into fresh wort w/ higher
os-pressure they upchuck amino and keto acids and it's a while before they
feel better. Some die no doubt.

I'd be interested to see some sources that claim otherwise, though.

 

[ChshreCat]

I've been trying to find sources that confirm this. There are plenty of sources that say that using distilled water to wash yeast is common practice. I ran across this discussion in HBD that claims distilled water does not cause osmotic pressure:



I'd be interested to see some sources that claim otherwise, though.

Here's an interesting article. It talks about the yeast cells having defenses against hypo-osmotic shock, so many of them survive, but I don't know if I'd want to put them through it. Seems to me that even if they survive, it would stress them and that's always a bad thing. Interesting debate that might deserve it's own thread if anyone wanted to start one, since we don't want to hijack this one.

Osmotic Stress Signaling and Osmoadaptation in Yeasts

 

[HoppyDaze]

that is deep...I think I'll just use boiled water.

 

[EvilGnome6]

Interesting debate that might deserve it's own thread if anyone wanted to start one, since we don't want to hijack this one.

Osmotic Stress Signaling and Osmoadaptation in Yeasts

Thanks for the reference. I'd definitely like to see a thread dedicated to this topic.

 

[HoppyDaze]

OK...now that I washed some of this yeast last night. What recipe should I try? Something else besides a saison? Maybe just a belgian blonde?

 

[ChshreCat]

Since it's specialized for saison, I'd probably just do another saison if it were me, but with a different grain bill and different hops. But home brewing is all about marching to the beat of your own kazoo, so go crazy and do whatever you want. See what happens if you make a porter with saison yeast!

 

[Tonedef131]

OK...now that I washed some of this yeast last night. What recipe should I try? Something else besides a saison? Maybe just a belgian blonde?

Brasserie Thiriez is the brewery that uses this strain as their house yeast. So you can get an idea of which styles lend themselves to that yeasts flavor profile.

 

[HoppyDaze]

Tone: that is a great idea!

CC: thats a good point you make. I really just like how fast and effecient it is. Very smooth and can be fermented at warm temps...I love it

 

[B-Dub]

Hey all,

Just tapped the keg of 3711!! Very nice!!! Great floral notes with hints of malt. For such a great fermenter this yeast delivers fast and filly attenuated Saison with little need for long conditioning.

I think the 5 gallons that is slated for brett and bottling will happen next week.

Nothing better than leaving a beer to carb for a few days and then be pleasantly surprised 3 days later with a great beer!!!

If this is what 3711 tastes like young, the longer conditioned brews should be out of this world!!!

 

[Schlenkerla]

Hey all,

Just tapped the keg of 3711!! Very nice!!! Great floral notes with hints of malt. For such a great fermenter this yeast delivers fast and filly attenuated Saison with little need for long conditioning.

I think the 5 gallons that is slated for brett and bottling will happen next week.

Nothing better than leaving a beer to carb for a few days and then be pleasantly surprised 3 days later with a great beer!!!

If this is what 3711 tastes like young, the longer conditioned brews should be out of this world!!!

Whats you abv???? Mine was 8.5% It needs to age.... tastes kinda hot.

 

[B-Dub]

ABV is 6.8%. About 1.057 to 1.006. Really very good for being so young. I think I might have just one more........

 

[Picobrew]

I'm working on my 3711 recipe right now. I'm planning on washing yeast and keeping this around for a variety of brews. Here is my recipe building thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/extra-special-rye-french-saison-huh-yes-132948/

Excited about this brew! Just working on the hopping schedule now. What temps can I get away with on this one? My other saison was above 80 but I'd like to do this in the mid 70s.

I know this was mentioned before, but Upright Brewing here in PDX is using this as their house yeast and all of their brews have been amazing. They have done a few saisons, some with a lot of dry hopping cascades, also they have done a gruit and a dark rye beer and a saison with no bittering hops, just aroma, as well as calendula and some other type of flower (it is called Flora Rustica).

 

[Schlenkerla]

I believe with 3711 that you want it below 78F. Ramping it up is good if you can do so, 68 to 78F. Have champagne yeast ready if it won't get down to 1.008 or less. For reaching dryness, adding 1-2 lbs of cane sugar is good as long as it doesn't exceed 15% of the fermentables.

Good Luck! This will make you a good special occasion beer. Don't drink it all in one month where you can't appreciate the aging of this beer. Its meant to be a saver! You'll thank me for this!!!



My recipe is posted earlier. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/wyeast-3711-french-saison-131414/index4.html#post1491703

 

[gxm]

I know this was mentioned before, but Upright Brewing here in PDX is using this as their house yeast and all of their brews have been amazing. They have done a few saisons, some with a lot of dry hopping cascades, also they have done a gruit and a dark rye beer and a saison with no bittering hops, just aroma, as well as calendula and some other type of flower (it is called Flora Rustica).

Which Uprights do you like best? I've had #4 & #5 on tap at the Green Dragon, and I wouldn't call either exceptional. The #5 tasted like a good beer, but was still too young to me. I wouldn't have served it at home.

 

[Tonedef131]

I believe with 3711 that you want it below 78F.

What have you observed when it gets above 78F?

 

[EvilGnome6]

What have you observed when it gets above 78F?

Just kidding.