Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[Jboggeye]

I think you'll be fine. I usually like this one young. your ferm temps were good. It may get better with more age, as it's a little high ABV.

What was the recipe? I find that certain malts require more aging than others with this one.

 

[Piratwolf]

Another question for you 3711 experts...

My gut tells me this isn't enough time to be quite ready, but does anyone else think different? Have you had one come out good this young? I'm not trying to win the competition, just looking to get my first real judges feedback on my beer. Just don't want to bother if it's not going to be ready...

I'm more an enthusiast than an expert, but my Saison w/ 3711 got 1st out of 41 entries when it was about 6-7 weeks old.

 

[smagee]

A young 3711 can still be great; I'd submit it and see where it goes. I feel like it hits its stride around 1.5 months or so, but it'll also vary depending on fermentation temperature, time in primary, etc. Let it ride!

 

[ChessRockwell]

What was the recipe? I find that certain malts require more aging than others with this one.

It's an extract recipe, about as simple as you can get - 10% wheat, 7% table sugar, and the rest pilsner DME. I've got some dryhopped and some not.

Thanks for the replies - I'd definitely feel more comfortable if I was at the 6-7 week mark, but I guess for the $5 entry fee I've really got nothing to lose, so I think I'll go for it!

Now to decide, cascade, willamette, or no dryhop...

 

[smagee]

Cascade!

 

[Jboggeye]

No dry hop! (Maybe hallertau or saaz, if you must)

 

[Sebas83]

+1 on hallertau/Saaz or no dry hop.

I'd go for a new Zealand hop if I wanted to "deviate from tradition." or add some spice in lieu of hops. Star anise, cinnamon, lemon zest, lime zest. You know, go crazy. That's why saisons are cool.

Leave those other hops for ipa's

 

[Piratwolf]

+1 on hallertau/Saaz or no dry hop.

I'd go for a new Zealand hop if I wanted to "deviate from tradition." or add some spice in lieu of hops. Star anise, cinnamon, lemon zest, lime zest. You know, go crazy. That's why saisons are cool.

Leave those other hops for ipa's

Balls to that! . I hop my 3711Saison entirely w/ Cascade. It's a great complement to the citrus notes of the yeast!

 

[ChessRockwell]

I guess I should have specified, the dry-hopping is already done. I did a gallon with Cascade, a gallon with Willamette, and 3 gallons with no dry-hop. I was just trying to decide which version to enter into the competition

Balls to that! . I hop my 3711Saison entirely w/ Cascade. It's a great complement to the citrus notes of the yeast!

That's what I was hoping for with the Cascade choice, good to know it works out well!

 

[Jboggeye]

just had a 6 month old French saison last night- and I am really getting tired of the citrus notes.

I used to love this yeast...

 

[tennesseean_87]

Update on the BDSA I brewed with 3711: It's been four weeks, and it still seems to be slowly fermenting. Gravity is around 1.005, and I'm hoping it'll hurry up and finish. I want to get it into bottles so I can at least try one when family's in town in about a month. It's spent a long time at ambient temps and some times with a heating pad to boost temp, but it's still going.

 

[DrWill]

just had a 6 month old French saison last night- and I am really getting tired of the citrus notes.

I used to love this yeast...

I wonder if you could mitigate the citrus notes by fermenting colder. Given this yeast's tendency to ferment down to sub 1.005 gravities it might give a cleaner ferment while still drying out.

Will

 

[JLW]

Update on the BDSA I brewed with 3711: It's been four weeks, and it still seems to be slowly fermenting. Gravity is around 1.005, and I'm hoping it'll hurry up and finish. I want to get it into bottles so I can at least try one when family's in town in about a month. It's spent a long time at ambient temps and some times with a heating pad to boost temp, but it's still going.

I would start taking a gravity samples every 24 hours for three days to confirm fermentation is complete. It may very well be at terminal gravity and you are seeing a release of co2. I had an RIS do this for a month as well. Fermentation was most likely complete way before I thougt it was. Just a thought.

 

[D_Ranged_Eskimo]

What a thread! First off, thanks to all of those who have experimented with this yeast and posted their results. It provides a lot of great info.

Just brewed my first Saison on the Fourth and pitched with 3711. Since I have my ferm chamber full with ESB's at the moment, this thing is fermenting at ambient temps of 74F, and judging by the fermometer, it's sitting around 77, 78 degrees.

I was going to boil up some sugar and add it, but it looks like there's no reason to do so with this yeast, so at 1.044 it will stay!

I'm at work and don't have BS print out but my recipe was something like this:

5 gal test batch

8# Bel Pils
1.5# White Wheat
1 # Munich
.5 Aromatic
1 oz Santiam 60 min
.5 oz Santiam 15 min
.5 oz Santiam 5 min (all 6.1% AA)
1 Whirlflock tablet 15 min
.5 oz Sweet Orange Peel 5 min
.5 oz Coriander 5 min

Mashed at 151 for 75 mins.

I'll let it ride for 2-3 weeks and then keg it and see where she stands. It will be interesting to see what the Santiam hops lend as I've never used them and haven't read any information on them so far.

 

[JLW]

What a thread! First off, thanks to all of those who have experimented with this yeast and posted their results. It provides a lot of great info.

Just brewed my first Saison on the Fourth and pitched with 3711. Since I have my ferm chamber full with ESB's at the moment, this thing is fermenting at ambient temps of 74F, and judging by the fermometer, it's sitting around 77, 78 degrees.

I was going to boil up some sugar and add it, but it looks like there's no reason to do so with this yeast, so at 1.044 it will stay!

I'm at work and don't have BS print out but my recipe was something like this:

5 gal test batch

8# Bel Pils
1.5# White Wheat
1 # Munich
.5 Aromatic
1 oz Santiam 60 min
.5 oz Santiam 15 min
.5 oz Santiam 5 min (all 6.1% AA)
1 Whirlflock tablet 15 min
.5 oz Sweet Orange Peel 5 min
.5 oz Coriander 5 min

Mashed at 151 for 75 mins.

I'll let it ride for 2-3 weeks and then keg it and see where she stands. It will be interesting to see what the Santiam hops lend as I've never used them and haven't read any information on them so far.

yeah it should dry out without the need of sugar additions.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I would start taking a gravity samples every 24 hours for three days to confirm fermentation is complete. It may very well be at terminal gravity and you are seeing a release of co2. I had an RIS do this for a month as well. Fermentation was most likely complete way before I thougt it was. Just a thought.

I'm not just trusting the airlock; it was at 1.006 on July 3rd, 1.005 on July 6th, and I'll probably take another sample in a day or two. I really hope it stops, because I don't want it any drier and I need the fermenter for a hefeweizen!

 

[Sebas83]

With that amount of wheat, your "dryness" level will be mitigated, but don't be surprised if you it 1-2gp. Dryness is only perceived by the relative amount of glycogen(?) and glycerol. More=less dry, less=more dry. I had a rye saison that lost points (like, 10 points! Fools) because it "wasn't dry enough" but came in at 1gp. Rye, wheat, spelt, sorghum, etc produce a lot in conjunction with saison yeasts. This yeast is particular in that if you don't give all kinds of weird foods, it may land as one-dimensional i.e. SMASH saisons or %95 pils/5 Munich or wheat or something. But, your recipe looks like it'll be a nice crisp saison with a pleasant dryness But not cloying or cotton-y.

I always treat this yeast by giving it "everything but the kitchen sink" treatment. Majority pils, minority wheat a/o Munich and a bunch of <10% weird adjuncts, particularly complex ones too.

Good luck!!! You're close!

 

[ChessRockwell]

Update:

Been exactly one month in the bottle on my 7.9%'er with this yeast, and it's excellent. I'm pretty impressed with this yeast. Lots of citrus, spice, no fusels and the abv isn't very noticeable at all.

Smagee - you were right, the one I dryhopped with Cascade is the best. Definitely a good choice!

I've already brewed up a more "sessionable" version aiming for 4.5%ish, but the heat around here got out of control and I wasn't able to keep the temp down the first 48 hours like I did the last one (kept it under 68). Pitched this one at 63 but it got up as high as 78 within 24 hours. Hopefully this doesn't cause problems...

 

[tennesseean_87]

I bottled my BDSA at 1.005 down from 1.098 (better eff than expected) in 4 weeks. I'll crack one in 3 weeks (4 in bottle) and see how things are going.

 

[ChessRockwell]

I bottled my BDSA at 1.005 down from 1.098 (better eff than expected) in 4 weeks. I'll crack one in 3 weeks (4 in bottle) and see how things are going.

Would be interesting to see how it does in a brew like that, definitely let us know!

 

[pjk49202]

Just started to drink a saison I made with FS. The reciped is:
12.5# Pils
3# German Wheat-Light-shop didn't have dark wheat
1 oz Magnum @ 60 min

The first batch I made with FS last year was really good. I fermented it in the lower 60's. It had a nice earthy tast to it.

The most recent batch w/o the dark german wheat has a slightly different taste I don't really like. I'm going to give it a little bit more time and I think that taste will calm down. It has a strange, kinda chemically aftertaste. It's not terrible I just think I need to give it another couple of weeks.

 

[bkpsych]

A 3711 relevant bottling question...

I'm at the two week mark with an extract-based saison using 3711, and my gravity has dropped from 1.066 to 1.006 and has remained stable for three days. I'm planning to bottle with 4oz of corn sugar for a 5 gallon batch, and I'm wondering if there are any bottle bomb considerations between the six remaining points and the sugar (even if I give it a full third week). The temperature has been floating in the 77-80 range for nearly the whole fermentation, and it would be harder to go higher without going a lot higher. Any suggestions to get an appropriate amount of carbonation, but stay in the safe range? Any reason to worry in the first place?

For those interested:
6.6# LME
1# Turbinado
64oz of odwalla mango madness juice
1 oz Citra (50% at boil, 50% 10 mins before flameout)
.5oz Saaz (10 minutes)
Wyeast yeast nutrient & whirlfloc

 

[Jboggeye]

No reason to worry, 1.006 sounds ok. I would leave it in the primary for another week, however. but that's just me.

 

[beergolf]

1.006 is probably just about you will end up with an extract batch. It might go slightly lower. Give it another week and you should be good.

I like my saisons carbed up a little more so I usually use 5oz or slightly more sugar at bottling time.

 

[bkpsych]

So I've been lazy with this brew I'm posting about. I realized that I didn't correct for temperature when I took my OG, so that should be adjusted to 1.068. Because my fermenter was at 77 F, the beer was really 1.008 not 1.006 at last post (though it was stable x 3 days). A correctly adjusted reading from today was 1.004, meaning that the 3711 is still going, and that I'm getting 94% attenuation with extract (8.4%). I'm going to give it another week, because it's foolish to assume that a fat man isn't going to eat the last bite.

The sample I took smelled and tasted pretty reasonably close to Tank 7, which is right on target. This all seems too easy.

 

[smagee]

This past winter, I experimented with 3711 in a saison, wit, and tripel in successive weeks; all were established recipes (the first I simply wanted both as a control and because it was delicious) that I'd brewed several times before and felt comfortable enough that I knew what to expect.

When I toss it on tap, I'll try to post more specific tasting notes. I'm hoping the extended time gives some of the spiciness a chance to emerge from behind the overall funk.

Well, the Tripel has been tapped for a while now, and I'm fairly certain I completely forgot to post results. Interestingly enough, it tastes like a standard tripel that was fermented a bit too warm--it reminds me a lot of the same tripel I fermented a while back using WLP530, in that it tastes quite a lot like banana bread. I must admit, I was expecting much less fruit than I seem to have gotten out of 3711; it's notable enough that it has me wondering if I somehow mis-entered the recipe when I brewed it and actually fermented with a standard Belgian strain.

If I look for it, there's some mild saison funk in the background, but it's *very* quiet, and not nearly enough spiciness for my tastes. I have to admit, I probably won't replicate this experiment. If I do, I'll make certain to monitor the temps a lot closer, as I'm pretty sure I didn't control it at all for this one. Maybe next winter I'll try again and see if things are different.

 

[tagz]

Was under whelmed by the flavor of my first 3711 batch, but it has really started to develop two months in. Fermented 68-70. Tasted like a standard Belgian ale for the first month. However, the pepper/earthy flavors are really starting to become dominant and it's tasting more like a saison.

 

[Piratwolf]

Was under whelmed by the flavor of my first 3711 batch, but it has really started to develop two months in. Fermented 68-70. Tasted like a standard Belgian ale for the first month. However, the pepper/earthy flavors are really starting to become dominant and it's tasting more like a saison.

I've found an enormous difference w/ 3711 at 68F and at 72F. My first batch was the lower temp and it was good but somewhat muted in phenolics. The second batch I didn't bother w/ temp control--just put it in my warmest closet & it varied between 72 & 75F or so. Great funk, pepper, and Saison-y goodness!!

 

[djbradle]

I got my saison at 74 and it has dropped the krausen this Sun afternoon from late Friday night Good krausen up until then with a 1 liter starter. I gave it another swirl in the carboy to stir things up. I mashed @154 for 60 min. With an SG of 1.070 and have it still bubbling away at the same temp of 74.

Anyone else get an awesome almost bitter cinnamon smell from the airlock? It was great! I'll just leave it in the same room for the whole month.

9 lbs Belgian pilsner
2 lbs white wheat
1 lb flaked rice
1 lb clear candi syrup

75 min 1 oz Mt. Hood
10 min. 1 oz Styrian Goldings
5 min. 1 oz Crystal

Can't wait!

 

[djbradle]

Now it's got a nice citrus funk to it. No krausen but it looks like a super carbonated beer with no head! Phenomenal!