Wyeast 3203 - PC de Bom Sour Blend impressions

[TrickyDick]

Howdy!

Here is my info on the stuff, and also the Oud Bruin release this summer.

De Bombe Flemish Red Ale I brewed 2 months ago. I aerated with pure O2 for 15 seconds for 3 times after I pitched per instructions (mid 80's at pitching but it slowly dropped as fermentation tapered over a week to high 70's).
Here are the stats at 2 months:
OG 1.065
FG 1.011
ABV 7.1%
AE 82%
pH at 2 months 3.58 (hoping for a bit more drop, and ditto on the FG)
IBU= per beersmith 11
Tasting (hydrometer sample) - Smooth, wow this has a lot going on, but wish it was a bit more tart. Fruity and slight funk going on, with a wonderful aroma. I wish I was a better taster because that's all I come up with.
Overall- I am hoping for a bit more out of this blend but doubt I'm going to get much lower in either pH or ABV. Going to sit on this a while longer. Earlier tastings were more impressive. Its developing a nice pellice in the secondary with the oak chips too. Great Color nicely RED! a decent 3/4" trub layer makes me think I can get a bit more from this. For a two month old beer, this is rather spectacular. but wait..

Oud Bruin- brewed on same day, and with identical oxygenation and fermenation.
two months old

OG- 1.057
FG- 1.015
ABV- 5.5%
AE- 73%
IBU- (will update later- 4.8% Fuggles 1.5 oz X 45 min, nearly 24 months old)
pH- 3.09

WOW! Initial tests I was not too impressed with this one, but fast forward two months later, WOW! look at the pH!! Taste is somewhat reminiscent of Cuvee de Jacobins. Really good brew! It really doesn't taste too much like a FG 1.015 beer. Very nice oak presence without overpowering.

I'm going to sit on both these beers for another month or two I think and see what happens. Honestly though I think the Oud Bruin is ready to bottle.

TD

 

[wardens355]

I am 8 days in and gravity has dropped from 1.063 to 1.018. Mellow tartness and a bit of barnyard aroma. Bumped with 15 seconds of oxygen.

 

[Arrheinous]

It's been about two months since I did that pumpkin 'lambic' I was talking about. Very simple: pilsener and unmalted wheat with 60oz Libbey pumpkin in the strike/sparge water.

It came out so-so after two months. But I also didn't aerate it other than some agitation during the first couple weeks. Still seems like a weird thing to do.

There's definitely a lack of strong sourness or funk to it where it's at that in-between 'not quite enough stage' that makes it almost gross. And I've had berliners, ouds, reds, guezes, goses, and all that by now. It is good for blending with non-sours to add a little something though. I've had more impressive results with roeselare + dregs in two months.

 

[joshrosborne]

The wide range of experiences with De Bom is very interesting to me. I've been impressed so far, but others have found the blend lackluster. To those who didn't care for it, were you able to consistently keep your temperatures up? Also, what was your IBUs?

 

[TrickyDick]

Oh I don't think it will be lackluster, but I think it needs another month. Maybe I should've dosed with a fourth best of oxygen. Initial tasting during fermentation was amazing, but it seems to have cleaned itself up a bit, maybe with more goodness to come. Pellicle forming in the carboys.

FYI, if you get the oxygen stone sintered to the SS wand, you can absolutely sterilize this sucker in your oven.

I think I'm just going to wait a bit. Can always titrate the pH with food grad lactic acid, save for blending, etc.


TD



Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[joshrosborne]

Oh I don't think it will be lackluster, but I think it needs another month. Maybe I should've dosed with a fourth best of oxygen. Initial tasting during fermentation was amazing, but it seems to have cleaned itself up a bit, maybe with more goodness to come. Pellicle forming in the carboys.

FYI, if you get the oxygen stone sintered to the SS wand, you can absolutely sterilize this sucker in your oven.

I think I'm just going to wait a bit. Can always titrate the pH with food grad lactic acid, save for blending, etc.


TD



Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

I didn't oxygenate and already pleased with the sample I took. I only brewed it on the 20th and have good sourness and a nice citrus fruitiness. I didn't use any hops and held it at a constant 83.

 

[finsfan]

I was able to get my hands on some ECY last week and now have too many sour yeasts so my plans for this one has changed. I will be brewing a 5 gallon batch of "saison" and do primary for a week with WLP650 Brett Brux. Then I will rack off 3 gallons into a carboy and toss in the De Bom. Is there any concern for a blow off in this situation since the 650 has already started?

 

[Arrheinous]

It's been about two months since I did that pumpkin 'lambic' I was talking about. Very simple: pilsener and unmalted wheat with 60oz Libbey pumpkin in the strike/sparge water.

It came out so-so after two months. But I also didn't aerate it other than some agitation during the first couple weeks. Still seems like a weird thing to do.

There's definitely a lack of strong sourness or funk to it where it's at that in-between 'not quite enough stage' that makes it almost gross. And I've had berliners, ouds, reds, guezes, goses, and all that by now. It is good for blending with non-sours to add a little something though. I've had more impressive results with roeselare + dregs in two months.

Actually, now that this has had a few days in the keg it's turning out pretty good. It seems to taste off with too much carbonation but is quite nice with a lower volume of CO2 and minimal head in the glass.

I might throw some ounces of cacao nibs in there to go for more of a JP La Parcela style.

 

[bryreeves]

I held the temp at 80 for about a month. Some sour but no funk. When I let it drop to ambient temp (~60 - 65 F), it formed a pellicle. I have not tasted it since, but the pH was about a 5. Going into month 3 I am cautiously optimistic / skeptical... Time will tell

 

[youreanimpulse]

I'm pretty sure ph of 5 is above normal clean beer ph. You mean 3.5? Otherwise to add my experience to the conversation, my De Bom beer is 3 months old, in bottles since 2 mos and no funk but lots of sour. No meter to measure ph, but it's so sour I've been blending in the glass with other beers. It works awesome for this, especially with my Brett beers. Just bottled second generation pitch into a Berliner and that one is more balanced sour. It had about 2 mos at 75ish, first beer was 80-85 the whole time. Second beer is a little Brett funky as well, surprisingly.

 

[joshrosborne]

At 9 days at 83, I had to let mine cool today because it was getting almost too sour. I might rack to fruit pretty soon and hopefully it'll reach terminal gravity in a month or two.

 

[deuce13coop]

I just cracked a bottle last night. I bottled it 9/21 and unfortunately its not quite there as far as carbonation(added champagne yeast and sugar @bottling). However, it tastes and smells great. Very sour, fruity and nice funk.
I'm still pretty shocked and pleased at the overall quality of the finished beer.

I still have another batch of a similar recipe on 8 pounds of nectarines that smells FANTASTIC and should be ready to bottle soon(based on the timeline of the first batch).

 

[gometz]

Had a bottle of my overly hopped batch last week. After about 3 months it was a nice slightly sour saison, but not overly sour. Batch two (low hop usage) is still in the carboy, will sample tonight.

EDIT: just pulled a sample. Beer was brewed 9/21 and has sat in my hot room since (vent and doors shut with blinds open, was about 85 for the first few weeks). It is very funky and pretty sour, but no where near a geuze or anything like that. Not sure how everyone is getting these strong sours. I have noticed that the beers seem to be very different when carbonated.

 

[joshrosborne]

Not sure how everyone is getting these strong sours.

I didn't hop my beer at all, so there was nothing inhibiting the Lacto at all. That might be why I had such luck with it.

 

[youreanimpulse]

Not sure how everyone is getting these strong sours. I have noticed that the beers seem to be very different when carbonated.

Yeah, I barely hopped mine, and I think it got away from me in the last two weeks of a two month fermentation. Not sure if I should have crashed it or what. Second gen the Brett and sacc are stronger for me and thus more balanced.

 

[djbradle]

Glad I found this thread as I'm looking to do one myself. I love Oude Geuze from Hanssens.

 

[wardens355]

Two week mark for my Oud Bruin de Bom batch. Took a sample today just for taste/aroma, no gravity reading. Definite barnyard aroma, more than after a week, and now some barnyard taste. Not very sour, a bit tart. Might bump again with oxygen tomorrow.

 

[nimboden]

Two week mark for my Oud Bruin de Bom batch. Took a sample today just for taste/aroma, no gravity reading. Definite barnyard aroma, more than after a week, and now some barnyard taste. Not very sour, a bit tart. Might bump again with oxygen tomorrow.

At the two week mark on my de bom Flanders red there was no sourness also a bit tart and now at the 4 week mark it is incredibly sour and tart. I find that the sac yeast got a quick start and the lacto and some pedio took a bit to get started. But I never dosed direct O2 just a few lifts of the carboy was apparently plenty, I would be hesitant to directly hit it with O2 afraid that that acetobacter would get out of control. While yes these summer sour strains produce quick sourness I'll still age these for quite awhile for flavors to round out.

 

[globe]

I just Brewed 1.054 OG 60/40 (2 row/german wheat) with .35 oz of simcoe at 15min....Im hoping this is ok. The simcoe whole hops are 2 years old but have been frozen since. I did not know until i read this thread that AA is what i should watch for. So I am crossing my fingers. Opening the De Bom package smelled great though I have to say. Will report back with results.

 

[nimboden]

I just Brewed 1.054 OG 60/40 (2 row/german wheat) with .35 oz of simcoe at 15min....Im hoping this is ok. The simcoe whole hops are 2 years old but have been frozen since. I did not know until i read this thread that AA is what i should watch for. So I am crossing my fingers. Opening the De Bom package smelled great though I have to say. Will report back with results.

I'm sure you will be fine, that little of a whole cone hop doesn't have much in them, especially with their age.

 

[gometz]

Going to have another bottle of my over hopped batch today, the last two bottles had a nice tartness,but not really sour. After about 2 months I think it is time to pull the second batch off its yeast cake (going to dry hop it with Mosaic). I plan on making a Flanders red inspired recipe to pitch onto the existing cake (from what I've read chocolate malt and corn are important for a beer like Rodenbach).

EDIT: anyone done a Flanders red with 3203? Am I barking up the wrong tree with this yeast/bug blend?

 

[chefchris]

Going to have another bottle of my over hopped batch today, the last two bottles had a nice tartness,but not really sour. After about 2 months I think it is time to pull the second batch off its yeast cake (going to dry hop it with Mosaic). I plan on making a Flanders red inspired recipe to pitch onto the existing cake (from what I've read chocolate malt and corn are important for a beer like Rodenbach).

EDIT: anyone done a Flanders red with 3203? Am I barking up the wrong tree with this yeast/bug blend?

I have one going that's only a couple weeks old and plan on doing many more with this yeast if it works out. I think it will be just fine in a flanders red. Go easy with the chocolate malt if you decide to use it.

 

[dougdecinces]

I just poured my first pint from my keg yesterday. This was a pumpkin beer base with Vienna, Munich, melanoidin, medium crystal, and flaked barley. I hit around 15 IBU. Including three 29 oz cans of pumpkin, I also aged this beer on cinnamon, nutmeg, and American oak cubes soaked in dark rum. As for the yeast, I mostly get straight-forward, mouth-puckering lacto sourness. This is the most lactic beer I have ever made. There is mild funk on the nose and some apple/pear flavors at the finish, but this is mostly spice and lacto. The ethyl acetate flavors and aromas were super strong out of primary (bordering on nail polish remover-like), but the rum helped to cancel out the ethyl acetate. Sadly, this also cancelled the funky aromas that were originally in this beer.

My opinions on this blend are mixed. For one, it did produce a very sour beer in about 2.5 months, but it lacks the complexity that comes from a long, slow fermentation. Furthermore, the oxygenating seemed to do more harm than good, as I only oxygenated mine twice for 20 seconds at a time and i still got nail polish remover smells and flavors. I think next time, given the opportunity, I would opt for the Roselare blend and just wait the necessary 12-15 months for my beer.

 

[crusader1612]

I just poured my first pint from my keg yesterday. This was a pumpkin beer base with Vienna, Munich, melanoidin, medium crystal, and flaked barley. I hit around 15 IBU. Including three 29 oz cans of pumpkin, I also aged this beer on cinnamon, nutmeg, and American oak cubes soaked in dark rum. As for the yeast, I mostly get straight-forward, mouth-puckering lacto sourness. This is the most lactic beer I have ever made. There is mild funk on the nose and some apple/pear flavors at the finish, but this is mostly spice and lacto. The ethyl acetate flavors and aromas were super strong out of primary (bordering on nail polish remover-like), but the rum helped to cancel out the ethyl acetate. Sadly, this also cancelled the funky aromas that were originally in this beer.

My opinions on this blend are mixed. For one, it did produce a very sour beer in about 2.5 months, but it lacks the complexity that comes from a long, slow fermentation. Furthermore, the oxygenating seemed to do more harm than good, as I only oxygenated mine twice for 20 seconds at a time and i still got nail polish remover smells and flavors. I think next time, given the opportunity, I would opt for the Roselare blend and just wait the necessary 12-15 months for my beer.

Sounds quite good.
I'm toying with getting hold of this yeast. But interested to know what the Sacc yeast mostlikely would be. given the temps, am I right to suggest a saison/belgian style yeast?
along with Brevis and Brettanomyces? Possibly Brett B??

 

[gometz]

I'm going to brew a beer too pitch onto my 3203 year cake on Sunday. I bought a heating wrap for the carboy since it is not warm enough anywhere in my apartment to get it up to 85. However while testing the wrap it got up to 90-93 without a controller. Is this too hot for the strain?

 

[bevoduz]

Use a simple timer for holiday lights to have it on an hour or two, then off and hour, etc..

 

[wardens355]

I'm going to brew a beer too pitch onto my 3203 year cake on Sunday. I bought a heating wrap for the carboy since it is not warm enough anywhere in my apartment to get it up to 85. However while testing the wrap it got up to 90-93 without a controller. Is this too hot for the strain?

I use a $30-$35 heating pad thermostat to control my temperature when heating only. I think once you go over the 80-85F range the Brettanomyces might start developing unwanted flavors, but I have pretty minimal experience with sours and have never fermented that high. If it were me, I would at least get a cheap thermostat.

 

[dougdecinces]

I used a seed starting mat for mine. I usually use it for growing tomato and pepper plants in the winter, but it was just taking up space, so I decided to give it a try. It works by keeping a temperature 10-15 degrees above ambient temps. Mine is 20"x20" and can support the size and weight of three 5 gallon carboys. If you keep your house between 68-70 degrees, you are golden.

 

[bevoduz]

I bought an stc-1000 on Amazon for about $15 and wired it up with parts I had around the garage in about 20 minutes. Working like a charm. I built underneath my workbench an enclosure using that thick pink foam sheeting and in my partially heated garage it's holding temps at wherever I want, currently at 70.

 

[gometz]

I ended up using one of my temperature controllers (one fridge is being used to lager, so it can hold 32 without a controller anyways). A week in it smells nice and sour. This was a repitch with dregs.