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Wyeast 3203 - PC de Bom Sour Blend impressions

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gometz

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Less than two weeks in on the repitch with dregs it's nicely tart, but a but thin.

Would it be a bad idea to toss inn the oak already? It'd be in there for at least a month. I was thinking 1 ounce for 5gallons
 

sweetcell

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I racked a 70/30 pilsner/wheat De Bom onto 16 ounces of tart cherry concentrate. I then racked a 70/30 2-row/wheat no boil batch onto the cake. Two days later, it's fermenting like crazy.
you are clearly more risk-tolerant that i am - i'd be nervous fermenting anything with that little headspace. was/is a blowoff tube needed?
 

joshrosborne

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you are clearly more risk-tolerant that i am - i'd be nervous fermenting anything with that little headspace. was/is a blowoff tube needed?
Nope, not at all. Usually I use Fermcap so I don't worry about blowoffs, but I forgot this time. It didn't make much krausen but it was fermenting like gangbusters. You could see the CO2 running up the side of the carboy. I checked on it this morning and the krausen had dropped at it was at 1.014. I'd assume it'll get down to 1.010 like the first batch.
 

billslaw1024

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I brewed a fairly simple recipe (11 lbs 2 row, 1 lb of crystal 10 and .2 oz of east kent goldings). IBU's right under 5 according to Beersmith. Mashed at 152 for an hour. Pitched de bom 3 days ago at about 80 degrees. Using a seedling heat mat to heat it up (should be between 75 and 80). It is fermenting like crazy right now. Smells like a clean fermentation so far. Can't wait to see how this comes out. I'm planning a sour saison for the second generation of this.

20141216_194825.jpg
 

beergolf

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I just figured out that this yeast presents a dilemma. My brett beers get about 4 months to be sure they are done. I start out with sach and then add the brett. Alll of them that I have bottled are perfect. They were done and the carbonation is perfect.

De Bom is a different animal. At two months it tastes good but with the brett it is definitely too soon to bottle. It could go a little longer and get a. little more sour so I am good with that. But I do not want to go too long.

OG was 1.050, currently at 1.006. I like some carbonation but do not want go too high.On the other hand I do not want flat.

I am going to give it a few more weeks to see what happens, but hope that it stabilizes so I can bottle without trying to do new things and bottle with confidence. Otherwise it is a WAG or a SWAG with the carb level.

I do have plenty of heavy Belgian bottles so that is not an issue..".


mmmmmm what to do......
 

youreanimpulse

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I have 2 batches bottled at 2 mos with De Bom for a couple months and no additional carbonation. They were both stable at like 2 weeks, though. One finished 1.010, the other like 1.000. Fairly different beers (Oud Bruin and Berliner, respectively).
 

poeq

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hypothetically could you pitch the lacto brevis, brett brux, and a sach strain into a starter to create a yeast blend with a similiar fast souring time since de bom is no longer available? it sounded like the lack of pedio is a big reason why the lacto is working so fast.

i'm still pretty new to brewing so go easy on me if i'm saying something stupid here lol
 

billslaw1024

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I brewed a fairly simple recipe (11 lbs 2 row, 1 lb of crystal 10 and .2 oz of east kent goldings). IBU's right under 5 according to Beersmith. Mashed at 152 for an hour. Pitched de bom 3 days ago at about 80 degrees. Using a seedling heat mat to heat it up (should be between 75 and 80). It is fermenting like crazy right now. Smells like a clean fermentation so far. Can't wait to see how this comes out. I'm planning a sour saison for the second generation of this.
Just sampled this and tested gravity. It has a very distinct citrus character and is very light bodied. Gravity was down to 1.009. Pretty drinkable at this point.
 

bevoduz

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hypothetically could you pitch the lacto brevis, brett brux, and a sach strain into a starter to create a yeast blend with a similiar fast souring time since de bom is no longer available? it sounded like the lack of pedio is a big reason why the lacto is working so fast.

i'm still pretty new to brewing so go easy on me if i'm saying something stupid here lol
Look around online, I'm sure you can find a shop that still has some in stock.
 

LeapingLamb

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If you are lucky to find a pack or two i would definitely grab it. I brewed a flanders red with the de bom blend and am quite impressed by it. I brewed a 5 gallon batch and it turned out better than I expected. after about a month and a half i transferred the beer to a secondary and made sure to splash it around a bit as per the instructions. I bottled it after 3 months and at that point it wasn't all that sour but it had a nice funkyness with lots of cherry, some plum and lots of other fruitiness. My wife really enjoyed it and liked the fruity aspect of it.

It has now bottle conditioned for about 2 months and I cracked open one the other week and it was quite tart, more so than after only a short period of bottle conditioning. I think this blend defintely can be done in 1-2 months but I think it is best left alone for a while. Perhaps adding some simple sugars or fruit would give this yeast a platform for some really nice complex flavors after fermentation is complete.
 

joshrosborne

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It strange to me how varied the experiences using this are. Maybe we should try to nail down some variables as to what was successful and what wasn't? My experience with it has been great so far. I have the second generation of it going currently.

Beer 1:
All grain (70/30 Pilsner/wheat)
No boil beer
No hops
Fermented at 83 for a week, which is when I decided it was sour enough, then dropped to ambient.
No aeration (at least on purpose)
Primary finished at about 1.01
Racked onto tart cherry concentrate after about a month and a half. Will be bottling once gravity stabilizes.

Beer 2:
Pretty much the same except swapped out 2-row for the pilsner.
Pitched on cake of Beer One.
Fermented at 80 degrees.
Was sour enough for me in three days. Once sour enough, let cool down to ambient.
Finished once again at about 1.01.
Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, so it's still in the bucket.
 

WhamFish

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Beer 1:
All grain (70/30 Pilsner/wheat)
No boil beer
No hops
Fermented at 83 for a week, which is when I decided it was sour enough, then dropped to ambient.
So you ran your mash directly into the fermenter and pitched or you ran it into the kettle and brought the temp up to 180-190 and held for a bit to sterilize? If you did a true no boil then you added a ton of other bugs from the grain on top of the de Bom mixture which might make your current mix different than the original in a number of ways. Not a bad thing just maybe something worth pointing out.

As for my experience, I got a very nice beer in about 3 months that was bright, tart and delicious. I boiled a 1.060 70/30 pils/wheat wort then ran it into my fermenter, pitched around 80F with no oxygenation then sat it on my porch for a week which had daily temperature swings between 75-85F. After a week it was a bit tart so I brought it inside. Fermentation was slow, got down to 1.033 in about a month. I pitched an active 1L Brett trois to get it to finish a bit quicker. It was down to 1.005 by the end of the next month.

So I didn't stick with just the de Bom pitch, but I think Brett trois is in there already so I don't think I changed it that much. All in all I thought it was a good mix. I made a starter from the cake and will be using it to brew another beer.
 

joshrosborne

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I ran it directly into a bucket and then used a heat stick to heat the wort to 180 for ten minutes.
 

sudbuddy

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has anyone had any issues with bottle conditioning beers using this yeast? specifically, do you think adding yeast would help or just stick with priming sugar?
 

TrickyDick

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Not sure about bottling. I added a quarter of concentrated sour cherry juice after a couple months to secondary. No signs of fermentation. Have yet to check gravity. Today is day three so I suppose I need to check. That would answer the bottling question I think. But weird thing is absolutely no Krausen or bubbles.
 

finsfan

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I just took a sample of mine a few weeks ago after letting it sit for 2 months. It had a nice sourness to it but not much else. You could really tell it had a lot of Lacto in it. I decided to pitch some slurry from my lambic and see how that added to the complexity. My main goal wasnt a quick sour with this blend, but instead wanted something unique so I am hoping for the best and can hopefully transfer this beer soon and pitch new wort on the cake.
 

gometz

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I am on the third generation of one of my cake now. Generation 1 was a nicely sour gold ale dry hopped with Mosaic, the sourness is not overpowering and compliments the mango flavor nicely.

I added dregs from about 6 different sour beers (Guezes, Oud Bruins, Flanders Reds, American Sours, even a Gose).

Generation 2 is a Flanders Red that I just bottled, samples weren't up to Rodenbach levels, but definitely stronger than Gen 1. I am looking forward to it once conditioned because it seems to have a nice pucker factor.

Generation 3 I just pitched onto the cake Sunday (1/25), no oxygen added (CO2 purged carboy), it took off like a rocket. I could see a torrent of CO2 bubbles coming out of solution. It was kept at 85*F. By Tuesday night it was already down to a slow steady bubble (every 15 seconds or so). Used a single step turbid mash, so there should be food for the brett to break down over the next 2 months and funk it up.

I'm hoping Gen 3 will end up being the strongest yet in terms of sourness, I will keep updating (if anyone cares). I am a bit worried that too vigorous of a fermentation might mean less interesting flavors, so this could be an interesting data point.
 

secondbase

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Bummed I didn't pick one of these up when they were available. Hopefully Wyeast makes this a year round offering.
 

beergolf

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Bummed I didn't pick one of these up when they were available. Hopefully Wyeast makes this a year round offering.

I sent Wyeast an email saying I would like to see this as a year round offering. This is what I got back...

We've had a lot of positive feedback about this blend - it's likely to reappear as another Private Collection release at some point. If it remains as popular as the first release, year-round could be a possibility!

Cheers,

Michael
Wyeast Labs
 

Kylito87

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What was everyone's experience with lag time for this strain?

I brewed a simple extract beer 3 Lbs Wheat DME 3 Lbs Pilsen DME and 1 Oz Saaz hops.

Pitched at 62 degrees no starter (per instruction) or aeration. Roughly 48 hrs later nothing happening no positive pressure on airlock. I am not worried I just haven't worked with sour cultures yet.
 

beergolf

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Get the temp up. The recommended range for this blend is 80-85. I used about 83 degrees for three months. It was not quite as sour as I wanted at 2 months.

Wyeast 3203-PC De Bom Sour Blend™

Beer Styles: Lambic, Geuze, Flanders Red Ale, American Sour Ale
Profile: Wyeast’s QC Manager and World’s Tallest Microbiologist Greg Doss developed De Bom to create authentic Old- and New-World sour ale profiles but in a fraction of the time required by previous, less manly cultures. For best results, we recommend the following: no O2/aeration at beginning of fermentation; periodic dosing with O2 during fermentation to stimulate ethyl acetate production; frequent sampling to monitor development and complexity. Under optimum conditions, beers can be ready for consumption in 1-2 months.

Alc. Tolerance 10% ABV
Flocculation variable
Attenuation 75-85%
Temp. Range 80-85°F (26-29°C)
 

Kylito87

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Ah that is what I was thinking too. My cold ground water and chiller did too good of a job and I forgot about that LOL. I have been focusing on fermenting my ales as clean as possible and chilling them really low before putting them in the swamp cooler. I will stuff some blankets around it and move it to a warmer area in my house. This is sitting at low seventies now I believe,
Thanks. I guess I could have answered my own question. Brewer Fail.
 

globe

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My 3203 De Bom turned out great IMO. I did a 60/40 2 row, white wheat malt bill, 10 IBU and and fermented at 85 for a week or so. Added oxygen at 7 days and then 3 days later. It is quite sour actually. I added 2lbs of raspberries to my 5 gallon batch and they add a little complexity because the beer is just sour otherwise with maybe a hint of funk. Nice raspberry nose with obvious sourness. My FG was 1.013 after mashing at 158. I wish i could get more of this stuff from wyeast, hope they make more.

 

beergolf

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Yes, I am hoping they make this a regular offering. It makes a nice beer in a short timeframe. Not as complex as a long term aged sour but a very good beer. I emailed them and requested that it be made a year round offering. The response was that if the gets good response the next time it is offer they would consider making it a regular.

I have a second one going with some yeast from the first batch. I am interested to see how it turns out. It has been a month so I am about to take a gravity reading/taste.
 
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has anyone had any issues with bottle conditioning beers using this yeast? specifically, do you think adding yeast would help or just stick with priming sugar?
I second this question. Planning on bottling in the next week (coming up on 4 months for this brew). Any bottle conditioning tips?

Thanks!
 

beergolf

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Mine was in the fermenter for 3 months and I just primed it as I would a normal beer. Gravity was down to about 1.004 (if I remember correctly) I did not add any yeast and it carbed fine.
 

beergolf

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There have been a lot of questions about re-using this yeast. I did a second batch using some yeast from the first batch. I just took a sample at 6 weeks. It is already more tart than the first batch was at 3 months. Gravity down to 1.000, so it already is a little lower than the first batch. I am going to give it a couple more weeks and bottle it up. Tastes good at this point.

I am going to try for round three when I bottle this batch and see what happens.
 

WhamFish

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I've also had the same experience, how did you repitch? Did you measure out some solids from the cake then go directly into the next batch or did you make a starter from the cake?

I made a small starter from the cake to get it going again, activity took a couple days.
 

beergolf

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I've also had the same experience, how did you repitch? Did you measure out some solids from the cake then go directly into the next batch or did you make a starter from the cake?

I made a small starter from the cake to get it going again, activity took a couple days.
I was bottling the same day as brew day, so I just grabbed some of the cake. A couple of scoops and just added to the next batch.
 

gometz

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Just opened a tester 12 oz of my second generation. It's only been in the bottle two weeks, so it's still a little flat. It's not as tart as the samples led me to believe, also sweeter than expected. Reminds me of a lighter duchesse de bourgne.
 

beergolf

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Anyone done a thrid generation with De Bom? I know the second generation soured much faster. I am about to bottle that one.

I am thinking about adding some sach to the slurry so that the lacto does not take off so fast but am not sure.

Anyone?
 

WhamFish

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I've gone 3rd generation. I don't think you need to add sach, there is no pedio so I think even if you end up with more lacto the souring will stop at 3.1.
 

beergolf

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Thanks for the info.

Round two is tasting good so it is ready to bottle. On to round three.
 

WhamFish

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Just to be clear:

Gen 1 was pitched from wyeast smack pack

Gen 2 was pitched from fully fermented out Gen 1 beer

Gen 3 was pitched from Krausen yeast plus about 1L of active fermenting Gen 2, about a week in to Gen 2's ferment.

So I call that gen 3 but IDK. The point is that it seems robust to changes in % of the original strains of bugs.
 

beergolf

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OK. I was just planning on grabbing some of the yeast cake from the second brew for brew three.
 

jmich24

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Just pitched a pack of De Bom into a Saison wort. Going to let it sour for a few days before pitching 3711. Hoping to add a little complexity to 3711 for a quick turnaround Saison.
 

wardens355

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Brewed a sour with de Bom in Mid-October and it is just starting to develop good sourness. The Brett character (barnyard, horse blanket, etc) was noticeable after a month or so, and there was a mild tartness early on. I will probably end up sitting on this batch until at least the 8 month mark before thinking about packaging.
 

TrickyDick

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I believe that I am at the 8 month mark now. I added some cherry concentrate to one (concentrated tart cherry juice 1qt) of two carboys a couple months back. Ready to bottle. I have six sour carboys ready to bottle, two that need more time, and two 10 gallon fermenters to rack. All Sour beer, but no time to do all that bottling!!
 

crusader1612

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I believe that I am at the 8 month mark now. I added some cherry concentrate to one (concentrated tart cherry juice 1qt) of two carboys a couple months back. Ready to bottle. I have six sour carboys ready to bottle, two that need more time, and two 10 gallon fermenters to rack. All Sour beer, but no time to do all that bottling!!
Thats alot of Sour beer! good work though
 
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