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Worst Hangover EVER after TWO beers - WHY??? (Founders Brewing Company)

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not founders related but, i thought i would add this experience to the thread.

the other day my fiance and I went to the Tower Theatre in Philly. we both had 1 of the same beer, Yards Pale Ale, and an hour later became ill after drinking the beer. we started with vomiting and it escalated from there. my digestive tract is still sick but i am feeling much better two days later and am beginning to eat again. i asked the staff if they ever clean their beer lines and they had no idea what i was talking about. i believe now that dirty beer lines can and will get you sick. i wouldn't wish food poisoning on anyone, it was disgusting and miserable.

Sorry to hear that. A local BJCP judge is holding some classes. (He is a few experience points shy of a national ranking). Last class he lined up a bunch of Yard products to do side by side comparisons of different styles from bitter to IPA. Very nice beers overall.
 
Hello,
...The lining around brains is both connected to the brain and the scull...

Sorry, but I just had to ask... where could I find my scull? I know where my skull is, but maybe my scull is the source of all my morning headaches. :drunk:
 
There are studies linking increased "hangover effects" to fusel alcohols. Dehydration probably is the single largest factor but certainly not the sole factor for a bad hangover.

Would you mind explaining the strong fusels I and others tasted in several of your beers at the 2010 GABF? :)

I like that QC stopped by for a visit. That was nice. Thanks for the science lesson. Note not a response to the fusel question/thread. As an update, the situation has improved if only slightly at Founders. My thinking is that it's the yeast adjusting to different sized fermenters. I don't get the immediate fusel-wretch that I used to there anymore, fwiw.
 
It actually was nice of QC to pop in anyway, shows there is a concern....There are so many factors involved here, it would be impossible to tell what is causing it...though, I have a had a few cases of "rogue" hangover after only a few beers. My question is, do you mostly drink at Founder's? If so, this could just be the luck of the draw on a confluence of factors.
 
I agree with lamarguy; I can't really get on with the lines argument because I'd think anything in the lines that would cause hangover like symptoms would also be easily discernible in the beer (it'd taste off).

I've had plenty of homebrew that was poorly fermented (warm) and it is staggering in it's hangover effects, even after just a couple of brews.
 
My Best advice, and this may sound odd but drink two red bulls and a small container of OJ BEFORE you start drinking the beer and see if you still get the hangover.
 
I've had draft Red's Rye and Breakfast Stout at several establishments here in Central IL, and no problems. Given the pattern here, I would subscribe to the dirty lines theory......
 
http://cocktails.about.com/od/healthsafety/a/hngovr_101a.htm


The hangover. What a dreaded word, a word that brings chills and the onset of a headache just thinking about the possibility of waking in the morning tired, nauseous and with that wonderful thing we call cotton mouth. Yet often enough we do not think about this while we are having a good time with friends and ordering another Old-fashioned or worse yet, a Jäger Bomb.

So, why do we get hangovers? How can we avoid them? How bad can it get? And what can we do when we have one? Those are the questions we are going to answer and that is really what you want to learn, that is why you are here, is it not?

How do I know if I have a hangover?
First of all, you will know when you have one, trust me. If you have never had one consider yourself lucky and here’s to the hope that you are never plagued with one in your lifetime. If you would like to cheer up a little and gauge the severity of your pain, read The Six Stages of Hangovers.

These are some of the symptoms of a hangover, if you are lucky you are not suffering from all of these at once. If this entire list describes your current condition, tell everyone to leave you alone and go back to bed.

Dehydration
Dry mouth
Tiredness
Headache
Nausea
Weakness
Anxiety
Irritability
Pessimism
Difficulty concentrating
Sensitivity to light and noise
Trouble sleeping
Suspension of the laws of gravity

There are a number of factors that play a part in whether or not you will get a hangover after a night of drinking. Many of the causes are obvious and most of us know what our own limitations are. It goes without saying that the one true way to avoid a hangover is to avoid or severely limit the amount alcohol you consume.

The ethanol contained in alcoholic beverages has a dehydrating effect which causes headaches, dry mouth and tiredness. This effect can be lessened by drinking plenty of water before and throughout your night of drinking.
Your liver breaks ethanol down with the aid of enzymes produced by liver cells. These chemical reactions do many things including impairing the liver’s ability to supply glucose to tissues, in particular to the brain. Glucose is responsible for the brain’s energy and the lack thereof results in fatigue, weakness, moodiness and decreased attention.
Congeners are the by-products of the process of alcohol fermentation and exaggerate the symptoms of a hangover. The more congeners consumed, the worse a hangover is likely to be. Dark spirits such as brandy, whiskey and red wine contain more congeners than lighter spirits like vodka and white wine. Likewise cheaper spirits have had fewer of these impurities removed and are more likely to cause a hangover.
Some people believe the sugar in sweeter cocktails contribute to the severity of hangovers.
Smokers and even some non-smokers tend to smoke more when they are drinking and this can lead to nicotine poisoning which will also worsen hangovers.
Some people are genetically lucky when it comes to hangovers and rarely, if ever, suffer the effects.
Weight is a factor. The less one weighs the more that person will feel the effects and after effects of alcohol.
The older you are the more likely you are to have a severe hangover. This is usually not a factor because we tend to take it a little easier as we learn from the mistakes of the past. But you have been warned.
There is something to be said about psychosomatic effects. If you think you will get a hangover, you probably will get one. Look on the bright side and save yourself.
Finally, the more you drink or the more you guzzle in a short time span, the worse your hangover will be.

Before your night out begins and throughout the night you can make some wise decisions that will lessen the effects of your misery the next day. Who knows, you may even avoid one completely.

Before you drink:

Eat. Fill your stomach with a healthy meal of starches and essential vitamins and minerals. Note that I said healthy. The food will absorb the alcohol and lessen it’s effects on you. If you decide a greasy bar burger or drippy pizza is your idea of a good meal you may regret that idea when the grease mixes the wrong way with liquor and carbonation and you end up staring at the toilet bowl.
Hydrate. Drink lots of fruit juice and water now. Think of it this way, for every glass of non-alcoholic beverage you drink now you will save yourself from having to drink two glasses in the morning.
Prepare your favorite hangover remedy and place it in an easy to open container in the fridge. If you do over indulge the last thing you will want to do in the morning is gather ingredients, mix things and worse yet, run the blender.
A clinical study from 2004 suggests that drinking prickly pear fruit extract several hours prior to drinking will reduce the symptoms of a hangover.
Try one of the many anti-hangover remedies found at convenience store registers and drug stores. I have heard good and bad things about these but have never tried them personally, but it is an option.

While you drink:

Grab a bite to eat at the bar. This is where greasy fries would be okay to eat because it is a snack that will keep your stomach full and add extra material to absorb the alcohol. Bar peanuts, popcorn, any type of food will do the job.
Choose the booze carefully. Again, dark spirits contain more congeners, light spirits fewer, cheap liquor more. More congeners equal more headaches. Stick with quality light color drinks most of the night to reduce your hangover.
Memorize this rhyme and abide by it, it will save you a lot of pain. “Liquor before beer, never fear. Beer before liquor, never sicker.”
Alternate alcoholic with non-alcoholic beverages. This trick will slow your alcohol consumption down and still give you something to drink. Choose water, fruit juices or light carbonated beverages. If you are worried about what your friends may think order a mocktail or dress up a straight virgin beverage with a garnish and lie. Call Sprite or 7-Up with a lime a Vodka Tonic or orange juice a Screwdriver or cranberry juice with a lime a Cape Codder. They are probably too drunk to know the difference and who cares anyway, you will feel so much better in the morning than they will, HA!
Consume less than one drink per hour. Your liver breaks down alcohol at the rate of one beer per hour, so spreading out your drinking over many hours will give your body a chance to keep up with you.
Once you make it home and before you crash on the bed force yourself to drink a glass of water and take some Vitamin B. This is also not the time to take any headache medicine (Acetaminophen, Ibuprofen, Aspirin) as they could seriously damage your liver.
 
As an update, the situation has improved if only slightly at Founders. I don't get the immediate fusel-wretch that I used to there anymore, fwiw.

Glad to hear things have improved. I'm hoping it was a temporary fermentation issue. For example, the yeast may have been rising above the glycol lines in the new unitanks, resulting in excessive fusels.

I look forward to trying their beer again at GABF this year. :)
 
Hello,
One of the best ways you can prevent a hangover is to take the time or drink some water throughout the night. And finish your night with a glass or two of water before bed.

As I understand it consuming water while under the influence of a diuretic is almost pointless if you continue to drink alcohol. The more water you drink the more you will pee. The diuretic lowers water retention in the blood, therefore trying to force more fluid into the blood by way of consuming water will not work. An analogy is that alcohol cuts the top half of your water bucket off. Pouring more in to gain a normal fluid level just spills it over the side. This is why drinking beer which is 85-90% water anyway does not help prevent dehydration. What it will do is help flush other chemicals the body wants rid of. Water itself is a diuretic, so drinking it will just make you pee more, unless you deal with the other blood water retention issue first. A popular "health freak" detox is to take pharmaceutical diuretics and drink gallons of water to flush the blood. The water will help your kidneys though. If your pee goes dark... DRINK water! However I have found that nomatter how heavily I drink, this does not happen until the next day.

What WILL help is the second part of your statement. With the important addition of food. Putting a meal in your stomach and then adding several pints of water before you go to bed, assuming you don't wake up to take a pee, will help, as the food holds the water in your stomach longer and introduces it to the blood slowly as the alcohol breaks down.

Asides dehydration, what causes hangovers is the intermediate chemical stages of the liver breaking down alcohol. Acetaldehyde and then acetate (finally C02 + water). The liver cannot store the intermediate chemicals which take a lot longer to break down, so it temporarily stores them in the blood to deal with later. Trouble is these intermediate chemicals are much more toxic than the alcohol you consumed in the first place. After a long session the levels get so high that they start to effect organs, tissue and the brain.

Liver and alcohol breakdown - myDr.com.au

Here are my anti-hangover tips:

1. Drink less... obviously.
2. Start earlier, finish earlier.
3. Eat before (slows alcohol absorption) and after (allows you to store fluid overnight so the body can rehydrate itself and re-energise itself).
4. The more sleep the better.

For every 2 days drinking, you need at least 1 day dry to allow the liver to "dump" it's by products safely. If you don't they will build up leading to various levels of liver disease.

A tip, from experience... be careful what you leave by the bed to drink the next morning. I have found:
Coca-Cola = NO! It may help a little with the dehydration and the fizz and acid helps clear the "carpet tongue". remember though it contains caffeine a diuretic. But the heavy sugars will cause you to get a serious sugar hang over which can be just as bad. Get yourself an alcohol hang over + a Coca-Cola hang over and you'll know about it.
Sweet fruit juice: better than coke, but it still gives you a sugar hangover. Depending on how pure the juice is, this can be barely noticable, can give you a mild headache, or.. it can make you dizzy and woosy.
Water is probably the best bet. Worst it will do is bloat your stomach a bit and force you to get up for a pee.

Eat something as soon as you can stomach it.

It's okay to throw up if the body tells you it needs to.
 
Great thread. Thanks guys.

I've had the same headache. Starts while I'm drinking the first pint. Lasts 1-2 days. Painkillers don't touch it. Especially in a local pub that serves real ales.

Here's the thing. I gave up drinking about 3 months ago. No alcohol at all. Went to the pub this weekend. Drank 3 pints of lemonade. Same hangover. The lemonade came out of one of those automatic mixer things.

So it's either the gas used to pressurise it, the pipe cleaner or the mould. But it's not the beer and after 3 pints of Lemonade it's not the dehydration.

Time to start drinking beer again.
 

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