Wormwood herb beer

[iambeer]

So for those of you who know what fresh wormwood smells like..... can you imagine it in beer? I'm not sure that I can. I've seen basil cream ales this summer.. thinking along the same lines may work.

 

[Zamial]

Smash you head with a brick and walk away. Wormwood is bad. It tastes bad. It is like pure tannis. Unless you like the sides and back of you tongue covered in bitter as #$^*#@$(&# stuff along with with your throat being squeezed really hard, in that case give it a go. I used less than 1/8oz in a 6 gallon batch, in just under 2 years it is barley drinkable.

FWIW there is NO, I repeat NO, "extra effects" either. That was a medieval sales pitch that was used to sell booze that was really high ABV and tasted worse than a hot, flat, festering in the sun, BMC product.

You have been warned...

 

[Xpertskir]

Totally trippie man...

I'd prolly listen to Zamial, sounds like he's got the first hand knowledge

 

[Frige]

So that was what they made "snake oil" from?

 

[Zamial]

I am pretty sure that snake oil was different but the same idea.

Some guy made a batch of hootch and it did not ferment out. It was sickeningly sweet. His buddy said,"Wormwood is bitter and free, use that." They then distilled it down and tried it. The brewer was horrified to learn that his family would starve to death if he did not sell this wretched tasting swill. His buddy said,"Tell everyone you see stuff that is not there...like green fairies." - the true unpublished history of absinth

Also if Thurojune (or whatever the active ingredient is supposed to be) was that great of a "high" or even a "high at all" wouldn't there be MORE people abusing it? There would be Thurojune houses and labs all over. Think about it, we live in the country that had to make cocaine stronger. The lack of junkies is pretty good proof that it is a myth.

I am not saying not to use wormwood because it is to strong, I am saying do not use it because it tastes bad. I made 2 batches because I did not want to listen to the HBT collective that basically had given me the same advice as above because "I knew better"... The 1st batch I used 1/8oz in a 5 gallon IPA. By the time it was drinkable the hops profile was LONG gone. I prob still have a bottle of this batch floating around someplace. The 2nd batch I upped the hops into an IIPA range and used 1/16th oz in 5 gallons. The result was a semi decent beer after over a year of aging. Guess what that year of aging did to my hop profile?

Long story short, use a different ingredient that tastes good.

 

[Frige]

I take a lot of supplements and wormwood is one of them 2 horse pills in the morning and 2 at night. When you open the bottle they smell like cloves. I have no idea what it does I just do what my witch doctor tells me to do. Funny my family doctor says no beer but the witch doctor says its good for me. Guess who I listen to?

 

[iambeer]

Okay ... good awareness!

Though I like the way it smells... maybe I'll make a tea out of it to see what you are talking about.

 

[porcupine73]

It can be used but only in great moderation, it's bitterness is extremely powerful, that's for sure. To a slight degree aging will help, but if you use too much it will not remove that overpowering bitter taste.

 

[neosapien]

Thujole does in fact do stuff, but it takes processing and much maceration (cane sugar being the best to use). It's also not nearly as fantastic as it seems in books and movies. The old absinthe recipes in the 1800s (which is likely what you're thinking of in terms of down the rabbit hole fantasies) tended to contain things like laudanum and copper compounds. I have a pretty spectacular old absinthe recipe which does the trick, and it's pretty much exactly nothing at all like beer.

You /can/ use wormwood in beer, but those above me were all correct. It is pretty much hands down the most bitter substance on earth. It's going to be medicinal, astringent, and ridiculously bitter. Be delicate if you put it in wort.

 

[porcupine73]

Funny my family doctor says no beer but the witch doctor says its good for me. Guess who I listen to?

I think the key difference would be the source. Some commercial beer with its sundry processing and other things, nah I'll pass. Homemade brew with quality ingredients that I know exactly what is in it? Yes please!

It's two opposed forces, the conventional doctor will tell you to eat a low fat, high carbohydrate diet. That in and of itself might not be completely terrible if the source were not processed foods. The witch doctor might be more friendly to saturated fat and animal protein.

 

[friday]

This is kind of a dead post but.......

I did a worm wood beer, basically your standard pale with 3/4 oz of worm wood.

When it was fresh it was a really weird bitter, won a silver in a pretty tough competition, but not something you would drink a pint of.

I just cracked a bottle open tonight 3 years later and it's a pretty good beer. It's a pale and the beer didn't age well but the bitterness on the side of the tongue and that weird back side bitterness is gone. It's actually pretty good for a pale that's been sitting for 3 years.

I think I'm going to try it on something that will age a little better that I want some bitterness to after a few years.

It does mellow out but it takes a lot of time.

 

[iambeer]

This is kind of a dead post but.......

I did a worm wood beer, basically your standard pale with 3/4 oz of worm wood.

When it was fresh it was a really weird bitter, won a silver in a pretty tough competition, but not something you would drink a pint of.

I just cracked a bottle open tonight 3 years later and it's a pretty good beer. It's a pale and the beer didn't age well but the bitterness on the side of the tongue and that weird back side bitterness is gone. It's actually pretty good for a pale that's been sitting for 3 years.

I think I'm going to try it on something that will age a little better that I want some bitterness to after a few years.

It does mellow out but it takes a lot of time.

Interesting! I wonder what strong ale would go well with wormwood for aging. Maybe a strong Belgian?

 

[friday]

I'm thinking that it would be interesting to do a freeze distilled beer with wormwood.

Say a wheat beer aged for three years the freeze distilled.

I don't know it's way outside the box but that's what we do right?

 

[Arrheinous]

I used a 1/4 oz at 15 min for a five gallon batch of bragot (to avoid using hops; my inexperience at AG turned it into a nut brown ale) and was able to drink it after cooling without issue. It may have been the 20# of malt that balanced it out or the Brewer's Best wormwood wasn't up to snuff. Just added honey to the secondary and I'm waiting a bit before adding candied ginger, peppercorn, star anise, etc.

It does contribute a particular herbal, woodsy taste beyond the bitterness and not just supposed mind effects. As with all things it needs to be used right.

I think there is some novelty in something that was bittered with a component other than hops. Using wormwood is also another way of exploring beer in a manner which you probably won't find in commercial beers. I'm more about the old-timey appeal (because wormwood was so hyped in the past even if it has been shown to be ineffective in the present time) and my fancy for the works of Poe and Lovecraft where wormwood becomes more or less a plot point or motif. I think these are valid points for some.

As far as hallucinogenics, I'm a bit of a hypochrondriac so it'll probably do something for me anyway (had an interesting run with hookah one time).

I am surprised friday was able to bring it to a competition though since technically there are warnings on some of the components to wormwood. I wouldn't let someone drink it without letting them know what was in it, but I guess contests come with some of the disclosure up front?

Wormwood may be impotent to the drinker but it certainly stirs up potent feelings on forums.

 

[friday]

Yes it was disclosed right on the label, but we're talking about less then an ounce in a 5 gallon batch. I guess I wouldn't suggest drinking it if your pregnant, although if you are drinking while pregnant the wormwood might be doing the world a favor.

 

[Arrheinous]

I don't it'd do anything specific. Seems like everything has either been attributed to causing or curing cancer or both.

But if someone got food poisoning or felt really ill by coincidence, they might first point to the beer with the weird stuff in it.

 

[Arrheinous]

I don't it'd do anything specific. Seems like everything has either been attributed to causing or curing cancer or both.

But if someone got food poisoning or felt really ill by coincidence, they might first point to the beer with the weird stuff in it.

 

[boscobeans]

The concentration of (pre Victorian Absinthe) thujone, the active ingredient in wormwood, was about 40mg of thujone per liter of absinthe. Drinking this, considering it was also about 120 proof, got you to dance with the "Green Fairy".

Absinthe that is now sold in the US contains very little if any thujone and the European brands contain some but not in the same concentration as back in the old days.

About 1 and a half ounces of real wormwood will yield 125mg of thujone, which is enough to make about 3 liters of (yucky bitter) wacky juice.

But just adding it to a ferment may not do it. It is uasually extracted in very high proof alcohol and allowed to macerate for a week or two.

As far as a flavoring agent goes, wormwood tastes like....hmm, how can I say this...POISON:cross:.

OMO

bosco

 

[Arrheinous]

As far as a flavoring agent goes, wormwood tastes like....hmm, how can I say this...POISON:cross:.

3-10% of a beer batch is alcohol. If I drank 5 gallons in a night it wouldn't be the thujone that got me. Nutmeg in high enough doses can produce actual hallucinations - apparently they're pretty scary. A lot of spices can do damage if you overuse them. Things like renal failure and so on.

I'm bottling a very batch tonight (unspiced leftover from the bigger batch) we'll see how it goes. I expect an hour in heavy traffic with the windows down to be more dangerous.

 

[boscobeans]

3-10% of a beer batch is alcohol. If I drank 5 gallons in a night it wouldn't be the thujone that got me. Nutmeg in high enough doses can produce actual hallucinations - apparently they're pretty scary. A lot of spices can do damage if you overuse them. Things like renal failure and so on.

I'm bottling a very batch tonight (unspiced leftover from the bigger batch) we'll see how it goes. I expect an hour in heavy traffic with the windows down to be more dangerous.

I was referring to the taste not toxicity..:cross:

bosco

 

[Arrheinous]

Disclaimer on handling taste/bitterness: I could sip Jager like tea. The herbal flavors are some of my favorite.

 

[offthewagon]

I know I'm a couple months late but thanks for giving me hope guys. I've got a wormwood braggot (completely by mistake) going in my primary right now. The recipe I had recommended bottling it pretty quick; fortunately I tasted it first, unfortunately I kinda wanted to die when I did. I was hoping that would level out with time but I wasn't really sure. Seems like time can fix just about anything, I don't expect mine to be around 3 years from now, but hopefully it'll be drinkable in a few months.

 

[StMarcos]

Try the Roman wormwood, Artemisia pontica, as it's less bitter. It's what is used to colour traditional absinthe green, although without antioxidants this colour will turn brown in a matter of weeks. Little late in the game for a St. Pats brew....!

 

[offthewagon]

So time is definitely helping. I just got it out of the carboy and into some bottles. Its been the better part of a year but the taste is really improving. I still wouldn't call it good yet, but its much better. I only saved a dozen of them, I figure I'll let them sit in the back of the closet for another year and then break one open.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Just to resurrect an old thread

I made a 1 gal test batch of blackberry ale inwhich I used a cold-brewed wormwood tea for bittering. It was TOO bitter. So I made another batch and blended. It was better, but still too bitter for my likes.

But rather than toss it, I bottled and carbed just to see what what happen with 3 or 6 months of bottle conditioning.

After only 6 weeks I opened one by mistake, and it was great! Strong berry taste and the wormwood has mellowed into a nice herbal bitterness that goes perfect with the berry and malt. I like it so much I will be making another batch soon. On my next batch I will use wormwood mixed with wild herbal tea as my bittering agent to give it a hit of floral.

So all that to say that wormwood is worth experimenting with, as long as you use it very sparingly, and give it a bit of aging.

 

[Oginme]

How much did you add to get the bitterness? I made a 3 liter batch a couple of months ago with 0.03 grams of Wormwood plus some Yarrow and Sweet Gale in the last 10 minutes to give a nice floral aroma to the beer. It came out a bit on the sweeter side and I was thinking of doing a repeat with a slight increase in the wormwood and maybe subbing in Chamomile for the Sweet Gale.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Not too scientific, I used about like a tea bag in a pint of cold water. It was way too much. I would use just a pinch in the same pint now.

How do you like the sweet gale? I have thought about it, but I would have to order online and for now just haven't done it since my herbal tea works nicely

 

[verboten]

I don't mind wormwood flavored beverages....lol

 

[Oginme]

Not too scientific, I used about like a tea bag in a pint of cold water. It was way too much. I would use just a pinch in the same pint now.

How do you like the sweet gale? I have thought about it, but I would have to order online and for now just haven't done it since my herbal tea works nicely

I like the Sweet Gale. I just won a gold medal with an English golden ale made with Bramling cross and Sweet Gale. Bittered to around 30 IBU with the Bramling cross at 40 minutes and then split the Sweet Gale between 5 minute boil and dry hop.

 

[Dland]

Wormwood is in artemisia plant genus. I believe some artemisias are still used in treatment of malaria, intestinal parasites and lice shampoos. I used to grow some when I had commercial herb garden years ago. I remember it as quite medicinal smelling, but not unpleasant.

I have read the old time absinthe, besides being strong and perhaps distilled carelessly, caused brain lesions, not just hallucinations, and the wormwood was blamed for this.

A very common artemisia around much of the world is the weed "mugwort"; artemisia vulgaris. Not as strong as wormwood, was used in pre hops beers, and is still used for a variety of things in the herbal medicine world, including "mild sedative & tonic" and to promote vivid dreaming.

I think these is some mugwort in most of the more casual gardens around here(ie unkempt). I probably could find 20#s of the stuff in my yard alone. Might try it in moderation in a beer someday.