Wondering if it's worth it?

[theck]

I currently brew in the garage with propane but like to upgrade my keggle to electric to brew in the basement. I can unplug my dryer and the plug is next to my brewing equipment now. I just want to use it for sparge water and boil kettle. I know I need a controller to control the heat... But is there some place I can see a build that's simple like this? Most I've googled are pretty complicated and expensive. I plan on getting a element from those e brewing sites which have the cord and plug already so guess I just need a simple box controller from that to the wall? Is there a reasonable priced controller you can buy? Worried I might kill myself if I diy.

 

[drksky]

I currently brew in the garage with propane but like to upgrade my keggle to electric to brew in the basement. I can unplug my dryer and the plug is next to my brewing equipment now. I just want to use it for sparge water and boil kettle. I know I need a controller to control the heat... But is there some place I can see a build that's simple like this? Most I've googled are pretty complicated and expensive. I plan on getting a element from those e brewing sites which have the cord and plug already so guess I just need a simple box controller from that to the wall? Is there a reasonable priced controller you can buy? Worried I might kill myself if I diy.

I just built an electric boil kettle and used it for the first time yesterday and I loved it. Control over the boil is instantaneous and I think it was faster than my Blichmann burner to get it to a rolling boil.

Now, I did go high end with a Blichmann 10g kettle and boil coil, but I like the way their coil connects and didn't have worry about screwing up the wiring or kettle if I did it myself.

I just build a simple controller that just controls the output of the SSR, no PID, nothing fancy and the controller was a $42 kit from Still Dragon. HERE it is.

 

[augiedoggy]

Its very worth it... and much safer than brewing with propane indoors... you can keep it manual and primitive or get fancy... either works, one just makes more consistent results with much less work once you understand how to operate it... I stated with a less complicated setup and redesigned things which made the system more complicated but the beer and cleanup easier to do/make.
Remember, Budweiser brews with electric to mass produce some of the cheapest beer on earth.... It is way more efficient despite what some people believe

 

[DoWBrewer]

I built an electric BIAB set-up to brew in my basement in the winter. I use a Bayou Classic 15.5 gallon with and induction burner and an element. You can get the burner for less than $60 if you find it on sale. The nice part is you don't need a 240V circuit if you just run these on different circuits. It is an easy and cheap way to do electric brewing.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have been brewing with a primitive setup for many years. I have 240v run in my garage and just turn the breaker on or off to control the heat. Or just unplug the elements. You have plenty of time to work it like a caveman as the liquid still takes a bit of time to move temperature.

The best thing about electric brewing is the constant temperature. Once you reach boil, you can literally walk away as it is what it is. I use a 4500w and a 3500w element. I plug them both in to bring to a boil then run the 4500w for the rest of the boil. If I don't want to evaporate as much I switch to the 3500w. This is for 5 gallon batches.

I would agree that first time conversion would be best served with a Boilcoil. Clean and easy installation.

Do the math - at 8-13 cents per KwH, electric is way cheaper then propane and you never run out!

 

[theck]

I love the idea, but what's the bottom dollar cost and equipment I would need to plug into the dryer outlet and use it for boiling? I'm pretty handy, did an addition myself on the house, and lots of other work but always left the electric to someone else, hate messing with it. What's the chances of screwing something up and killing myself in the process? Figure I'll snag one of these $145 elements: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-element-kits 5500W?

 

[drksky]

I love the idea, but what's the bottom dollar cost and equipment I would need to plug into the dryer outlet and use it for boiling? I'm pretty handy, did an addition myself on the house, and lots of other work but always left the electric to someone else, hate messing with it. What's the chances of screwing something up and killing myself in the process? Figure I'll snag one of these $145 elements: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-element-kits 5500W?

You can get a boil coil for that much and it's all stainless and can be installed in any kettle that can accommodate its size.

Still need a controller and for just a BK, the above mentioned Still Dragon controller is about as cheap as you can get.

Most expensive part for the controller would be a 30A GFCI breaker.

And with 240v 30A you could easily kill yourself if you wire it wrong.

 

[bbohanon]

You can get a boil coil for that much and it's all stainless and can be installed in any kettle that can accommodate its size.

Still need a controller and for just a BK, the above mentioned Still Dragon controller is about as cheap as you can get.

Most expensive part for the controller would be a 30A GFCI breaker.

And with 240v 30A you could easily kill yourself if you wire it wrong.

It is 100% worth it but the last part of this post is the most important part. If you are not knowledgeable about wiring something like this up, please pick up something like "Wiring Simplified" or another wiring book and READ IT and get a friend who is an electrician. Seriously. I am not a electrician but I know quite a few and a little education goes a long way safety wise.

I am personally right in the middle of my electric brew house/man cave build and I have talked to more electricians and read more wiring books than I care to mention. I want to make sure its done right and safely.

If you wire it up right, it will revolutionize how you brew. If, not you better have good life/home fire insurance.

All that said, to be able to brew AG without propane, with a bit more automation and control, and to be able to brew indoors without having to straddle oven elements is totally worth it!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I have been brewing with a primitive setup for many years. I have 240v run in my garage and just turn the breaker on or off to control the heat. Or just unplug the elements. You have plenty of time to work it like a caveman as the liquid still takes a bit of time to move temperature.

The best thing about electric brewing is the constant temperature. Once you reach boil, you can literally walk away as it is what it is. I use a 4500w and a 3500w element. I plug them both in to bring to a boil then run the 4500w for the rest of the boil. If I don't want to evaporate as much I switch to the 3500w. This is for 5 gallon batches.

I would agree that first time conversion would be best served with a Boilcoil. Clean and easy installation.

Do the math - at 8-13 cents per KwH, electric is way cheaper then propane and you never run out!

I wish.Im at .28 cents a KwH Highway robbery.How do you figure out what a brew session will cost

 

[processhead]

Assuming you ran a 4500 watt element at full power (which you wouldn't) for an hour during your boil, you would be looking at .28 x 4.5 x 1 = $ 1.26.

Electricity is probably the cheapest ingredient in the entire beer batch.

 

[bbohanon]

Assuming you ran a 4500 watt element at full power (which you wouldn't) for an hour during your boil, you would be looking at .28 x 4.5 x 1 = $ 1.26.

Electricity is probably the cheapest ingredient in the entire beer batch.

This is awesome and puts some perspective on this.. The other thing you have to factor in for propane cost per batch vs electric is the cost for you to drive to switch out tanks when you need more propane, what your personal time to do do this is(I am rural so I have to drive at least 15 miles for a propane tank swap), outdoor weather interferences on brew day, (bugs/temp/weather) dragging equipment outside to setup and tear down, etc.

I also live in NC and power is cheaper here than somewhere like NY, NJ or CA

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Assuming you ran a 4500 watt element at full power (which you wouldn't) for an hour during your boil, you would be looking at .28 x 4.5 x 1 = $ 1.26.

Electricity is probably the cheapest ingredient in the entire beer batch.

Awesome.I had know idea it was that easy to figure out We're energy conscious in these parts.I thought it would be WAY more than 1.56 (5500w).This will make brewday even more enjoyable

 

[theck]

It is 100% worth it but the last part of this post is the most important part. If you are not knowledgeable about wiring something like this up, please pick up something like "Wiring Simplified" or another wiring book and READ IT and get a friend who is an electrician. Seriously. I am not a electrician but I know quite a few and a little education goes a long way safety wise.

I am personally right in the middle of my electric brew house/man cave build and I have talked to more electricians and read more wiring books than I care to mention. I want to make sure its done right and safely.

If you wire it up right, it will revolutionize how you brew. If, not you better have good life/home fire insurance.

All that said, to be able to brew AG without propane, with a bit more automation and control, and to be able to brew indoors without having to straddle oven elements is totally worth it!

Ah him I might try to see if I can get it already built. Anyone know if you can get the setup already done up for a reasonable price?

 

[Bassman2003]

To Processhead: how could you not run a 4500w element for the length of the boil? It will be at full power unless you have a controller and decide to turn it down.

To Theck, if you go with the Boilcoil you will not need to wire anything as you already have the dryer outlet. Just plug the element in and it will heat. I don't know your batch size but you can get different strengths of Boilcoils. Contrary to popular opinion, electric brewing does not need to be complicated or expensive.

 

[processhead]

To Processhead: how could you not run a 4500w element for the length of the boil? It will be at full power unless you have a controller and decide to turn it down.

My statement was directed at those brewers that had power controls on their BK elements. Those with controls will typically run the element at full power till the onset of boil, and then back them down to just maintain the boil

You are correct. If you were running an BK element directly across the line, it would consume the the full rated wattage of the element for the duration of the boil.

 

[processhead]

Awesome.I had know idea it was that easy to figure out We're energy conscious in these parts.I thought it would be WAY more than 1.56 (5500w).This will make brewday even more enjoyable

When you run the numbers, you can see that the cost per KWH has to be astronomical before it becomes less cost effective than LP.

I have never run the numbers on NG fired burners, so I am less sure how that works out. I suspect electric heat would win out again.

 

[processhead]

It surprises me that no one has mentioned another advantage that electric heat has over gas or LP, which is how quiet electric is.

All the burners I have used in the past were pretty noisy when they were at full flame and even when cut back to a lower flame.

I like a quiet brew day. Now if I could just figure out how to quiet down my recirculating pump?

 

[theck]

To Theck, if you go with the Boilcoil you will not need to wire anything as you already have the dryer outlet. Just plug the element in and it will heat. I don't know your batch size but you can get different strengths of Boilcoils. Contrary to popular opinion, electric brewing does not need to be complicated or expensive.

Wait a sec... so if I get:
http://morebeer.com/products/blichmann-boilcoil-75-gal-120.html (I do 5 gallon batches only)
I can just drill 2 holes in my kettle, install, unplug my dryer, plug in the kettle and it's ready to go? It's even a 120v and that's enough to bring ~8 gallons pre boil to a boil in a reasonable time?

Edit: looking at http://www.homebrewing.org/Blichmann-120V-Boil-Coil-75-gal_p_4985.html it looks like it takes 50 mins to bring that to a boil... guessing stepping up to the 240v 10 gallon would be the best thing?

 

[bbohanon]

On the BoilCoil, kal had a good writeup on this here(I forget the thread) where he brings up very good points on using proprietary elements should they crap out or Blichmann decide to change direction and no longer support that model of the BCoil.
I personally would tend to want to use something that could be easily swapped out should an element go south(like at Lowes or Home Depot) or you have any issues with it. It should be built to be easily fixed with minimal additional $$$ outlay for upkeep and maintenance.

He also mentioned that the BCoil was not waterproof on the external housing..You get a boilover, and you could toast the whole deal.
Kal has some prebuilt elements on his site that are right in line with a BCoil cost wise, use standard parts and is waterproof both internally and externally.
Just some thoughts if you are looking at the BCoil as your heating option.

 

[theck]

Looked at the dryer plug and it's 4 prong vs 3 I think they have on the boilcoil... also I'd need GFCI which it isn't. Wondering if I just have my electrician come and install a line for me.

 

[theck]

On the BoilCoil, kal had a good writeup on this here(I forget the thread) where he brings up very good points on using proprietary elements should they crap out or Blichmann decide to change direction and no longer support that model of the BCoil.
I personally would tend to want to use something that could be easily swapped out should an element go south(like at Lowes or Home Depot) or you have any issues with it. It should be built to be easily fixed with minimal additional $$$ outlay for upkeep and maintenance.

He also mentioned that the BCoil was not waterproof on the external housing..You get a boilover, and you could toast the whole deal.
Kal has some prebuilt elements on his site that are right in line with a BCoil cost wise, use standard parts and is waterproof both internally and externally.
Just some thoughts if you are looking at the BCoil as your heating option.

Would I need a controller is can it just be plugged in and go?

 

[bbohanon]

Would I need a controller is can it just be plugged in and go?

You can plug it into an appropriate wall socket(120v or 240v depending on the element you get) again..make sure the socket you are plugging it into has GFCI protection at the wall outlet or at the breaker.

A controller with temp control on it would allow you to control your boil/mash temp power better with automating turning the element off and on as needed. With no controller, you will have to manually unplug it or plug it in to maintain any mash/boil temp needed much like a heat stick works.

In short, no a controller is not needed to power the element.

Just a note that I had 6.5 gallons of wort rolling nicely powered only with a 2000w heat stick(Bobby's Hot Rod) this weekend plugged right into a 120v GFCI outlet in the kitchen..
If I were going to run any element bigger(4400 or 5500 240v element) for a 5gal batch, I would want it on a controller of some sort as it will boil the bejeesus out of some wort on full blast with no power moderation. Unplugging and plugging it back in to keep it from an overboil would suck.

 

[hio3791]

Since you have a 4 prong outlet, your best option would be to have your electrician replace the breaker of your dryer with a 30A GFCI breaker.

I have an element housing like Kal's and I love it. As someone mentioned, it's nice that it's waterproof. It's too easy to spill liquids during a brew session.

You need a way to start/stop power to your element. I would recommend against plugging the element straight into the outlet and controlling the boil by plugging the cord in and out of the outlet. Plugs and outlets are not build for that type of use and could fail which can lead to destruction of property and/or death. Not to mentioned that unplugging under load, in a potentially wet environment, is just bad!!

As many have suggested, the StillDragon kit is the cheapest solution. Since you mentioned you were a DIYer, wire it yourself and have your electrician check your work when he comes to replace the breaker.

Alternatively, if you properly size your element for your batch size, you may be able to run the element at 100% for the entire length of the boil, in which case, you could buy an appropriate DPDT so you can safely turn the power on and off. But a DPDT rated for 30A is about the same cost of the StillDragon, at which point, you are better off going with the StillDragon.

 

[bbohanon]

Looked at the dryer plug and it's 4 prong vs 3 I think they have on the boilcoil... also I'd need GFCI which it isn't. Wondering if I just have my electrician come and install a line for me.

When in doubt, call an electrician. I keep 2-3 of them who I give free beer to on speed dial. I do believe the BCoil 3 prong you are referring to is the 120V version of the element..
I think(but cannot confirm as I dont own one of these) the 240V version has or should have the 4 prong plug you are looking for(the safest way to run 240v is to use a standard 4 prong plug/outlet so your hot/hot/neutral/ground are always seperate). You can run 240v over 3 prong(dryers used to be wired that way) but I personally would not run it setup with a 3 prong plug.
You can always call Blichmann direct to ask them about it..


Bill

 

[theck]

You can plug it into an appropriate wall socket(120v or 240v depending on the element you get) again..make sure the socket you are plugging it into has GFCI protection at the wall outlet or at the breaker.

A controller with temp control on it would allow you to control your boil/mash temp power better with automating turning the element off and on as needed. With no controller, you will have to manually unplug it or plug it in to maintain any mash/boil temp needed much like a heat stick works.

In short, no a controller is not needed to power the element.

Just a note that I had 6.5 gallons of wort rolling nicely powered only with a 2000w heat stick(Bobby's Hot Rod) this weekend plugged right into a 120v GFCI outlet in the kitchen..
If I were going to run any element bigger(4400 or 5500 240v element) for a 5gal batch, I would want it on a controller of some sort as it will boil the bejeesus out of some wort on full blast with no power moderation. Unplugging and plugging it back in to keep it from an overboil would suck.

Thanks. How long did it take the 120v to come to a boil I'd love to be able to do it with a reg GFCI outlet.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I currently brew in the garage with propane but like to upgrade my keggle to electric to brew in the basement. I can unplug my dryer and the plug is next to my brewing equipment now. I just want to use it for sparge water and boil kettle. I know I need a controller to control the heat... But is there some place I can see a build that's simple like this? Most I've googled are pretty complicated and expensive. I plan on getting a element from those e brewing sites which have the cord and plug already so guess I just need a simple box controller from that to the wall? Is there a reasonable priced controller you can buy? Worried I might kill myself if I diy.

"I'd like to go electric but I don't want to spend a lot of money!" Yeah, you and about 200 other people on here.

I know others are going to disagree, but I personally believe that going electric is a "go big or go home" kind of upgrade. If you're going to spend a lot of time learning how to put things together, may as well do it right and be happy with all the bells and whistles that you added in order to simplify your brew day instead of just doing the bare minimum and wishing that you had spent more time finding out what was available and spending the cash on the stuff you wanted.

Somebody needs to put together a list of "things that you can add to an electric brew rig" with a general description of what the thing does, the pluses and minuses of adding it, and how much it might cost.

 

[theck]

Going big isn't my thing. I like my small brewing setup... I never wanted to get pumps, stands, tanks, etc... Probably never will unless I get rich soon which will never happen. I an just looking for a simple setup to convert my keggle into electric boil kettle for a decent price. If I have to invest over $300 I probably won't bother for a while.

 

[drksky]

When in doubt, call an electrician. I keep 2-3 of them who I give free beer to on speed dial. I do believe the BCoil 3 prong you are referring to is the 120V version of the element..
I think(but cannot confirm as I dont own one of these) the 240V version has or should have the 4 prong plug you are looking for(the safest way to run 240v is to use a standard 4 prong plug/outlet so your hot/hot/neutral/ground are always seperate). You can run 240v over 3 prong(dryers used to be wired that way) but I personally would not run it setup with a 3 prong plug.
You can always call Blichmann direct to ask them about it..


Bill

Nope, I've got the 240v boilcoil and it is indeed 3-wire. Two hot, one ground. No neutral. You only need a neutral on the circuit if you're running 120v.

 

[DoWBrewer]

As I previously stated, I have a good electric brewing set-up for less than $100. It boils quickly and holds mash temps well.

 

[theck]

As I previously stated, I have a good electric brewing set-up for less than $100. It boils quickly and holds mash temps well.

Can you send me some links?