WLP 300 question

[dangerbrew]

So I just tasted my Dunkelweizen after about 2 weeks in bottle and I'm noticing a good bit more citrusy-tartness in the beer than I was initially expecting.

I don't use liquid yeast very often, but whenever I do it seems that a lot of problems inevitably arise which is making me more of a liquid yeast detractor than I ever thought I would be - it seems to be horribly inconsistent, even when following the procedures to an absolute T. And I do.

In any case, I fermented my dunkelweizen at 68-74 degrees after pitching the yeast. Fermentation took about 18 hours to start (made a yeast starter) and kept going constantly and the beer didn't reach its final gravity for 18 days. I bottled with the normal amount of corn sugar (3/4 cup) and aged it in my cool 62 degree basement for 2 weeks.

I've checked, and checked, and checked. I didn't oversparge - I didn't stray from normal ferm temps - didn't overcarbonate (which could've been a cause for that characteristic, I've read) - frankly, I'm a little peeved. I'm a big fan of Ayinger's Ur-Weisse and was hoping to get something very close - however, the base of the beer is great, but I'm getting little banana and little clove flavor with much more of a citrus tang that's kind of overpowering most everything else - like someone squeezed a bit of lemon into the beer.

BJCP guidelines says some citrusy tartness is acceptable, but typically muted. I recognize it is acceptable, but geez... it's not the beer I was hoping for, nor did it turn out to be the beer that all my materials stated.

Anyone have any ideas why this happened? It's a fairly straightforward recipe - no crazy extras. I mean, is it just another reason for me to say heck with all liquid yeasts?

 

[iijakii]

Post up your dunkel recipe.

 

[Teaman]

I have used the WLP300 once in a hefe and got tons of banana. I was told at the LHBS that if I fermented at the top of the temp range the result was more flavor contribution from the yeast. So that's what I did and I got the banana flavor. I don't remember it being citrusy at all so maybe it is something else.

Do you know what temp yours was?

 

[dangerbrew]

Partial Mash
YEAST: WLP 300 w/ starter
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.00 gal
OG: 1.069
FG: 1.019
Estimated IBU (Tinseth): 12.2
SRM (Mosher): 13.5
Boil Time: 60 +/- Minutes
18 days at 68-74 primary
14 days at 65 bottled
6.6% ABV

Grains:
5.75 lbs. Bavarian Wheat extract
2.00 lbs. Pilsner 2-row (Belgian)
0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt
2.00 lbs. Munich Malt 6-Row 10 L
0.25 lbs. White Wheat Malt
0.50 lbs. Torrified Wheat

Hops:
0.5 oz. Hallertau (60 min boil)
0.5 oz. Hallertau (40 min boil)
1 tsp. Irish Moss (15 min boil)

30 min rest at ~125 F
10 min rest at 150 F
15-20 min rest at 155 F

sparged at 165 F

 

[iijakii]

I have used the WLP300 once in a hefe and got tons of banana. I was told at the LHBS that if I fermented at the top of the temp range the result was more flavor contribution from the yeast. So that's what I did and I got the banana flavor. I don't remember it being citrusy at all so maybe it is something else.

Do you know what temp yours was?

The higher the ferm temp the more banana flavors you get, which definitely is desirable, but that also increases the chance/frequency of undesirable off-flavors. I imagine it's a bit of a bell-curve that you'd have to experiment with two batches to see which you prefer.

 

[Fletch78]

I have used the WLP300 once in a hefe and got tons of banana. I was told at the LHBS that if I fermented at the top of the temp range the result was more flavor contribution from the yeast. So that's what I did and I got the banana flavor. I don't remember it being citrusy at all so maybe it is something else.

Do you know what temp yours was?

Ditto, my exact experience as well.

 

[Fletch78]

Not to sound like Revvy, but when I used WLP300 on a Hank's Hefe kit, 4 to 5 weeks in the bottle was awesome, I remember the 1 week sample and the 2 week sample having a similar character that you describe.

 

[Kriznac]

I made a Dunkelweizen with this yeast last winter and my house stays VERY cool during winter months so my ale ferments are usually in the low to mid acceptable temperature range. That said, I loved this yeast. Aside from some poor racking on my part (had some pretty sizable chunks of yeast/trub in the bottles) it performed great. Like drinking a chocolate covered banana. Mmmm.

 

[Tim27]

Having brewed two Hefeweizens but no Dunkelweizen yet I can only say that maybe your fermentation temp was too high. My last Hefe was fermented at 62 degrees for 3 weeks and it is dedinitely a lot less banana flavored than my first one fermented in the 75 degree range. Could the citrusy notes you are getting be also described as kind of banana like?

When I listened to the Jamil show podcast Jamil said it is best to ferment your weizens in the low 60's. I definitley like my second attempt better than my first.


Just my 2 coins.

 

[Tim27]

There have been discussions on the forum about how Wlp 300/WY3068 can give you more banana the hotter you ferment and then more clove the cooler you ferment. Sorry forgot to mention that.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

I agree that fermentation temps might have been too high. 74 is way higher than I'd take wlp300. I typically top out at 68 when I want big banana flavor and 65 when I want a cleaner ferment.

Also agree that aging a few weeks should mellow and blend everything.

 

[Toecutter]

Ditto, my exact experience as well.

Yep. Belching bananna right now

 

[ghpeel]

Friend of mine just did a dunkelweizen without temp control and 300. Said it tasted citrusy at bottling. I'll crack one in a few days and post back if it is in fact citrusy.

 

[dangerbrew]

I'll let you guys know how it gets on in about 2 more weeks or so - see if the citrusy tartness calms down a bit.

 

[Hermit]

You really only did 30 minute sach rest?

 

[dangerbrew]

You really only did 30 minute sach rest?

Had to work later in the day - couldn't take too much time. I was actually a little late. :cross:

 

[Hermit]

Had to work later in the day - couldn't take too much time. I was actually a little late. :cross:

Well, you could well be lacking some sugars for balance then.