Wine whys

[inchrisin]

I've got two quick questions. I'm about to put together a cherry wine and a plumb wine. Both the recipes tell me to stir daily. I'm pretty sure this is to degas the wine. What does degassing wine do?

Both of the recipes tell me to rack to secondary before the wines are done. ~1.030-1.040. Why take the wine off the fruit this early?

Thanks!

 

[Honda88]

you rack it before its done fermenting too prevent oxidation, 1.030-1.040 seems a bit high to me, id wait until it gets in between 1.010-1.020 and you should be fine.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Stirring daily during the primary fermenting introduces much needed oxygen, it does not de-gas. Yeast are much less stresses when they can breathe, and will not produce off-flavors or smells.

I do agree with Honda88 about waiting until 1.01 or so.

 

[inchrisin]

you rack it before its done fermenting too prevent oxidation, 1.030-1.040 seems a bit high to me, id wait until it gets in between 1.010-1.020 and you should be fine.

I keg beer and have a work horse line that I could purge a secondary with CO2. Would there be any advantages to taking the wine off the must/yeast cake before hitting FG in this case?

 

[Yooper]

I keg beer and have a work horse line that I could purge a secondary with CO2. Would there be any advantages to taking the wine off the must/yeast cake before hitting FG in this case?

The fruit gets really decomposed by about day 5-7. That's when you rack, and airlock. Before that, covering with a clean towel to make sure fruitflies and the like don't get in there is great. You stir to degas (co2 is poisonous to yeast in large amounts) and get oxygen in there, as well as to break up the cap that forms. By 1.010-1.020, the fruit is mush and starting to break up and the wine needs to be airlocked. That's the point where it is racked and topped up. It also gets the wine off of the gross lees.

 

[mb82]

The fruit gets really decomposed by about day 5-7. That's when you rack, and airlock. Before that, covering with a clean towel to make sure fruitflies and the like don't get in there is great. You stir to degas (co2 is poisonous to yeast in large amounts) and get oxygen in there, as well as to break up the cap that forms. By 1.010-1.020, the fruit is mush and starting to break up and the wine needs to be airlocked. That's the point where it is racked and topped up. It also gets the wine off of the gross lees.

Jumping into this thread since I also wondered why I needed to stir every day.

Oh no I might have waited a little long on my blackberry wine then. At the 7 day mark I racked it over to the carboy and I checked the gravity and it was 0.995. I stired almost every day (forgot the first day since this is my first wine and I am used to just letting it sit). The sample tasted pretty good except for a little bit of hot alcohol flavors.

 

[inchrisin]

The fruit gets really decomposed by about day 5-7. That's when you rack, and airlock. Before that, covering with a clean towel to make sure fruitflies and the like don't get in there is great. You stir to degas (co2 is poisonous to yeast in large amounts) and get oxygen in there, as well as to break up the cap that forms. By 1.010-1.020, the fruit is mush and starting to break up and the wine needs to be airlocked. That's the point where it is racked and topped up. It also gets the wine off of the gross lees.

You seem to tackle all of the questions I have on this forum. Let me hit you with a few more.

Since I spend most of my time brewing beer, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around daily stirring of wine.

In terms of beer, it's a bad idea to over oxygenate the wort. If you do this, or do this too late in the process, you run the risk of oxidizing the beer. It tastes like wet cardboard. With big styles, you oxygenate, and do it again the following day and then you leave it alone. We're talking SG ~1.080 still.

1. Should I stay away from oxiginating my wine when I add the yeast?

Edit:
2. I'm under the assumption that you stir until you rack over to secondary. Is this right? When do you stop stirring daily? I'm also assuming the cutoff for racking to secondary is based on SG and that if you're around 1.020 you need to move it.

Cheers!

 

[Yooper]

You seem to tackle all of the questions I have on this forum. Let me hit you with a few more.

Since I spend most of my time brewing beer, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around daily stirring of wine.

In terms of beer, it's a bad idea to over oxygenate the wort. If you do this, or do this too late in the process, you run the risk of oxidizing the beer. It tastes like wet cardboard. With big styles, you oxygenate, and do it again the following day and then you leave it alone. We're talking SG ~1.080 still.

1. Should I stay away from oxiginating my wine when I add the yeast?

Edit:
2. I'm under the assumption that you stir until you rack over to secondary. Is this right? When do you stop stirring daily? I'm also assuming the cutoff for racking to secondary is based on SG and that if you're around 1.020 you need to move it.

Cheers!

Well, first, it's not a bad idea to over-oxygenate your wort! You simply can't, unless you're blowing pure 02 into it for too long. You can get maybe 8 ppm via stirring into it, and that's fine. Once fermentation slows down (same with wine) is when oxidation is a risk. Active fermentation means little risk, and some breweries have open fermenters. The co2 coming out of the beer (or wine) means no oxygen uptake. It's when fermentation slows and stops that you need to not splash/aerate your beer. The same is true with wine. Since you can reasonably expect wine to go to .990 most of the time, depending on OG and yeast strain, 1.010-1.020 is a reasonable time to airlock.

I've had wines go dry in 5 days before, so if I miss the 1.010-1.020 window, I still just rack and don't worry about it. It's fine. There is still a lot of co2 in solution, which will come out when you rack it or stir it, which has a protective effect. Also, many winemakers use sulfites which are an antioxidant. Keeping the wine at 50 ppm of s02 means much less risk of oxidation during racking and bottling.

If you're not using sulfites, it'd be much more risky to stir the wine once it was fermented. Just like when you open a bottle of wine one day and finish it the next, the wine has changed and tastes "flat" (oxidized). Oxidation gets worse with time, so it's important to prevent it. Still, it's not like the oxidation gremlin hides behind you and jumps into your wine! Being careful with racking by avoiding splashing, using sulfites, and airlocking when appropriate will go a long way to making a great long lasting wine.