Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[moshmont]

I just got the 3500w induction burner last week & tried it out with my Bayou Classic 11 gal. kettle. With 7-1/2 gallons of wort in it @ 140 degrees F. I had a rolling boil in 35 minutes! This unit kicks ass! By the way I have a 5 gallon Polarware el-cheapo economy kettle that a magnet does NOT stick to @ I got a rolling boil with 3 gallons of water starting @ 66 degrees F. in 25 minutes.
:rockin:
Try your kettle before replacing! CHEERS!

 

[Zibe]

Getting ready to go all electric and still debating on this (easy) or the element. Just wondering since many of you will have had your burners for a while now how they are holding up. If everyone's still happy definitely go this route. Thanks


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[singybrue]

Getting ready to go all electric and still debating on this (easy) or the element. Just wondering since many of you will have had your burners for a while now how they are holding up. If everyone's still happy definitely go this route. Thanks


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I have both types of systems-induction and element with an electronic controller.
The electronic controller system is nice in a set it and forget way, and repeatability. The induction system is a little more hands-on as far as monitoring and tweaking the temps.

Advantages of the element approach- electronic/automated control, repairability.
Disadvantages-more money, more things to clean(element, strainer basket I use to keep bag off the element) more and bigger holes in your pot, more cords and such, potentially higher shock risk, larger batch sizes possible.

Advantages of the induction burner-Potentially lower costs, less to clean(I don't use the strainer basket with the induction burner), potentially fewer holes in the pot, I get less boil-off with the induction system, can use it for more than just brewing.
Disadvantages-More hands on/No automation(although I fully expect some smart HBT'r to figure this out), may need to buy a new pot, may be limited to smaller batches, less repairability?

That's what I come up with off the top of my head.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Getting ready to go all electric and still debating on this (easy) or the element. Just wondering since many of you will have had your burners for a while now how they are holding up. If everyone's still happy definitely go this route. Thanks

Been using mine quite a bit for brewing, and also for cooking now that summer's in full swing. It's nice to be able to cook without heating up the whole kitchen...

Over all I'm very happy with induction for small batches (3gal), I use it mostly for strike/batch water and boiling as I'm using a cooler to mash in. Clean up's a piece of cake, and with the reasonable liquid amounts I don't worry about needing valves, etc in the brew pot.

Automation with the element system would be nice, but it's overkill for my current setup. I know there's a few folks on here running induction to 10gal, but IMO once you hit that level elements make a lot more sense. Under 10gal I'd go induction with the appropriately sized plate.

The only thing I wish I had more control over in my system would be consistant mash temps, which I don't feel I'm getting with the cooler and have shown with the plate that it's not accurate for holding temps long term. Because of this I'm looking at RIMS, but it's not a requirement in my world, just another rabbit to chase down a hole when I'm bored and need to spend money on beer equipment.

Unless you already have a stainless pot that you know is induction ready (and there's a few cheap pots out there that are, like my Concord), the cost of the pot+plate+spiderbox (a 208-220VAC whatever to 20A breaker/plug) is going to put you in nearly the same ballpark as an element setup but with no DIY work/mods.

Horse a piece under 10gal, over 10gal go element IMO.

 

[Zibe]

Cool thanks for the feedback I'm not really stressed about automation doing my Mash in a cooler just trading the propane burner for an electric to avoid outdoor winter brewing. Just interested how durable the burners are if something breaks on the element rig I can just replace that part but the burner means a new unit but overall i feel safer with the burner ( don't much care for getting shocked). Still leaning towards the burner as long as they don't burn out after five batches


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[AnOldUR]

Still leaning towards the burner as long as they don't burn out after five batches.

Over 50 batches on my 3500W Avantco since February of 2012. Still going strong!

 

[Hello]

I bought mine in March so I have about 5 batches on it. I love it. It is absolutely wonderful to be inside when it is 99F out with 80% humidity or when it is rainy, windy, etc. I've now reserved outside brewing for spring time and 10 gallon batches.

 

[AnOldUR]

I've now reserved outside brewing for spring time and 10 gallon batches.

Hung onto my gas burner thinking it'd be nice to have the option to brew outside on a nice day. Hasn't happened. If I get struck by spring fever during a brewday, I walk outside during the mash or boil, sit down and relax (don't worry have a home brew.)

 

[Zibe]

Appreciate it think my mind is made up luckily the previous owner of our house had a hot tub so the electric is there just need to put on the outlet, no spa panel though.


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[Hello]

Hung onto my gas burner thinking it'd be nice to have the option to brew outside on a nice day. Hasn't happened. If I get struck by spring fever during a brewday, I walk outside during the mash or boil, sit down and relax (don't worry have a home brew.)

Yeah I get it but I like to do 10 gallons from time to time and I got this wonderful new kettle for Christmas that was set aside by mid-March. 10 gallons on this thing seems impossible. I also like sitting on my deck to brew when the weather is right.

 

[AnOldUR]

10 gallons on this thing seems impossible.

Here's almost 13 gallons coming to a boil in a 62qt Bayou pot.

 

[Pie_Man]

Yeah I get it but I like to do 10 gallons from time to time and I got this wonderful new kettle for Christmas that was set aside by mid-March. 10 gallons on this thing seems impossible. I also like sitting on my deck to brew when the weather is right.

In addition to AndOldUR's comment, there is a dude using this burner for a 14 gallon batch just a few pages back: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/w...n-burner-work-301722/index42.html#post6116489

 

[Hello]

Here's almost 13 gallons coming to a boil in a 62qt Bayou pot.

Damn! Well that would kill my 15 gallon kettle that is 17" diameter, far too wide for the cook top. We'll see how long it takes me to sell the kettle and get a 62 quarter for indoor brewing. I need to install a ceiling fan though.

 

[wingo395]

Hi all, new to the forums. I'm *really* interested in the IC3500 as well. I am in an apartment with one 240V circuit that powers a Samsung digital range/oven. The plug appears to be a 10-30/10-50 (and it says which one on the outlet, but I can't make out a 39 or a 50). From what I think I know, it's a 3-wire, 3-pole outlet (does that mean it's two 120V circuits ganged together to provide both 120 and 240 to the stove?), and making an adapter pigtail to a 6-20P (3-wire, 2-pole) isn't possible?

The new owner put in a new CB box and this is on a 40A circuit. The stove is new, too - I guess the "electricians" had to install the wiring harness and plug to the junction box in the back of the stove.

It's a pain in the butt to unload the kitchen cabinet and reach back to unplug the stove, complicating the matter. I would love some sort of Y adapter that could allow the stove to stay plugged in, while letting me temporarily plug the IC3500 in when I am ready to brew - but I think that may be out-of-code (but I really have no idea and have not yet talked to an electrician). This induction burner would be a godsend, since I can't run propane on my balcony - I would have to haul all my gear out to the far end of the building to brew.

Anyway, would love to know if a pigtail could exist (whether pre-made or custom) that would be safe and allow me to plug the IC3500 into it.

Before I found this thread, I did write to Avantco and they are very responsive. One comment was, "We cannot recommend using pot larger than the diameter listed on the manual for this unit. It will work but we have seen issues with pots larger than the glass surface melting the control board which will not be covered under warranty." I then asked if this were a circuit overload issue or heat issue, and would the use of an induction disc rectify the issue**. The reply was, "It is more of an issue with the pot getting hot which is why we do not recommend it. You can certainly try an induction plate and that should still work to bring to a boil. It is not something we always recommend but I don’t see why that would be an issue." (Hmmm, the pot gets hot as a result of the induction, and that might burn out the circuit?)

** While some brewers were wondering if their pots were induction-ready, I noticed nobody mentioned the use of an induction disc. An induction disc is essentially the magnetic iron disc that will heat from the induction coil instead of the pot, but the pot sitting on top will naturally heat up. It's not quite as efficient as a true induction-ready pot, but it's the next best thing, if all you have is a big aluminum pot (or something that won't attract a magnet).

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=induction+disc

Really enjoying the forums and this thread.. Hoping I can plunk down for the IC3500 and brew in my kitchen..

Cheers
Gary

 

[Hello]

^ I did not see the need for the induction disc with my setup but I suppose I could use it if I wanted to try my 17" diameter kettle.

I can't speak to your electrical questions but I will say only one thing, you need to figure out if that is a 3 or a 5 because that will make every single bit of difference. You can find a dozen Y plugs that suit your needs but if you're wrong about the number then that could be an issue.

 

[AnOldUR]

Never used one, but I would speculate that an induction disc would negate a lot of the benefits of using induction. I've never tested it, but I don't think that the outside and most of the bottom of my pot ever exceeds 212 degrees by very much. All the heat is concentrated in area of the induction coil and is transfer directly into the wort. Wouldn't using a disk essentially make your induction burner into a hot plate? That entire disk must get very hot. Depending on the size of the disc in relation to your pot, it could cause a problem with melting insulation on the pot. It would also transfer more heat to the circuitry with the potential for the damage you spoke of. With normal induction, when you turn the burner off, the heat stops immediately. With the disc, there would be a slow cooling process. You'd have to remove the pot from the burner before chilling to chill effectively.

Just some random thoughts. Anyone using one?

 

[sumbrewindude]

Induction discs are incredibly inefficient - you're heating a disc that in turn will try to passively heat a larger object and then the fluid inside it. There's no way you'd be able to effectively boil any kind of volume, and would ultimately create an incredibly hot spot with minimal heat dissipation right over the top of your unit.

Avoid at all costs.

There are plenty of pots out there that will work - unofficially on here we've got Bayou Classic, NB's Megapots, various tri-clads, Concord, etc... There's a pot somewhere in there that will fit your requirements and budget, you just need to decide what they are. Any of them will be light years better than dealing with an induction disc.

Making a spider box (220/208VAC 40A to 20A) isn't hard at all - get a single gang breaker box (usually about 15$), a 20A breaker to snap into it, some SO cord to make some pig tails, and the plugs (male 40A and female 20A). You should be able to put everything together for around 25-30$ or so, depending on where you shop, in fact if you find someone at HD/Lowes with electrical experience they should be able to walk you through it pretty easily.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have no experience with or the need for Induction Discs, but as sumbrewindude says, they remove most of the charm and benefits of (direct) induction heating, and its efficiency. Yes, avoid, get the right pot instead.

I think wingo395 tries to find a way to keep his stove plugged in while providing an extra outlet on the same circuit to service his IC3500. I'm sure he understands it is outside of "code," which mainly exists to satisfy bureaucrats and secondly, protect the stupid.

Now the landlord may not like you tinkering with the electrical system... or pigtailing a 2nd tap.

Most stoves with ovens are on 40A or 50A circuits, 3-wire with ground. You so you have 4 prongs on the plug (or 3 for older installations, with a common neutral/ground)

ADDED:
Without changing the existing wiring you would need a 4-prong male (like the one on your range) going into the existing 4-prong female outlet (what you call junction box). Then a (thick) cable would go to a new junction box / breaker box assembly with a new 4-prong female outlet to plug your stove into and a NEMA 6-20 female outlet to plug your IC3500 in. The stove is directly wired through, and the NEMA 6-20 is fed through a 20A double pole breaker.

You shouldn't use the range and induction plate at the same time, although you possibly could use some parts of the range, not to exceed ~25A/6000W, while your induction plate (~15A/3500W) is being used at the same time.

Disclaimer: Totally out of code and off the record of course. You read it somewhere on the innuhnet and it didn't come from me, neither do I endorse this.

 

[Siberian]

Hi all, new to the forums. I'm *really* interested in the IC3500 as well. I am in an apartment with one 240V circuit that powers a Samsung digital range/oven. The plug appears to be a 10-30/10-50 (and it says which one on the outlet, but I can't make out a 39 or a 50). From what I think I know, it's a 3-wire, 3-pole outlet (does that mean it's two 120V circuits ganged together to provide both 120 and 240 to the stove?), and making an adapter pigtail to a 6-20P (3-wire, 2-pole) isn't possible?

It'll work fine for what you need then. The IC3500 has a 3-wire , 3 pole outlet as well. So you'd just need to get 2 work boxes, a new pig-tail that matches the one on your stove, a section of wire rated for 240v (#12 gauge at least since the IC3500 will pull 3500w), another wall plug that matches your stove (NEMA 10-30 most likely from what you've said) and one for the IC3500 (I forgot what it needed).

So you'd build basically then wire the new pigtail into the work box to the new NEMA 10-30 outlet. Then cut a section of the #12 gauge wire, wire it to the 10-30 outlet as well, run it out of the workbox to the next workbox. In that box, put the outlet for the IC3500 and wire it in.

Then you'd plug this cable into the wall in place of the stove, plug the stove into the first box, then plug the IC3500 into the 2nd work box. No big deal since both appliances are 3 prong connections rather than 4.

I'd advise against running both at the same time. But one at a time should be no problem.

A crude drawing of this is attached in case the above description is unclear.

You could skip the new plug for the stove and go straight out to a workbox for the outlet for the IC3500 if you wanted, you'd have to unplug the stove anytime you wanted to brew then, but it would work just as well.

 

[sumbrewindude]

The main reason for the spider box from the Stove plug to the IC3500 is to drop the Amp rating to match the IC3500.

Most stoves are 40A, where as the IC3500 is 15A (if memory serves). Breakers are just there to prevent the wiring in the house from going up in smoke, not the items they're attached to - so while you can run the IC3500 on a 40A circuit, if something where to go horribly wrong, the current would take it's wrath out on the IC3500's power cord. That'd leave a molten mess of copper and plastic in short order before the 40A breaker popped.

The one nice thing about the IC3500 that you have in your favor, is that it's internally fused at the incoming power on the board, so if the UNIT takes some water/crap it'll go and and stop current draw to the unit. Cord's still hot, though, so keep that in mind.

In the end it's up to you. Just keep in mind the fuse on the IC3500 is soldered on the board, and not immediately replaceable - nor is a fuse a guarantee that the rest of the unit will be in working order if blown.

Spiderboxes are cheap enough to make, and portable in case you want to move your plate with you.

Your call.

 

[IslandLizard]

It'll work fine for what you need then. The IC3500 has a 3-wire , 3 pole outlet as well. So you'd just need to get 2 work boxes, a new pig-tail that matches the one on your stove, a section of wire rated for 240v (#12 gauge at least since the IC3500 will pull 3500w), another wall plug that matches your stove (NEMA 10-30 most likely from what you've said) and one for the IC3500 (I forgot what it needed).

So you'd build basically then wire the new pigtail into the work box to the new NEMA 10-30 outlet. Then cut a section of the #12 gauge wire, wire it to the 10-30 outlet as well, run it out of the workbox to the next workbox. In that box, put the outlet for the IC3500 and wire it in.

Then you'd plug this cable into the wall in place of the stove, plug the stove into the first box, then plug the IC3500 into the 2nd work box. No big deal since both appliances are 3 prong connections rather than 4.

I'd advise against running both at the same time. But one at a time should be no problem.

A crude drawing of this is attached in case the above description is unclear.

You could skip the new plug for the stove and go straight out to a workbox for the outlet for the IC3500 if you wanted, you'd have to unplug the stove anytime you wanted to brew then, but it would work just as well.

Yeah, that would work. the 20A breaker in between is not "really" needed.
But I would use the appropriate NEMA 6-20 receptacle to plug your IC3500 plate in directly instead of the second 10-30, which would need again an adapter.

 

[steveoatley]

Did someone start a thread for What pots work best with Induction ?

Sorry to ask, I seem to remember seeing the thread, but I can't seem to find it now

I am looking at this 3500 watt induction
with either a NB Mega Pot 1.2 or a Blichmann Boiler maker

and was wonder who was having good luck or bad

thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

Did someone start a thread for What pots work best with Induction ?

Sorry to ask, I seem to remember seeing the thread, but I can't seem to find it now

I am looking at this 3500 watt induction
with either a NB Mega Pot 1.2 or a Blichmann Boiler maker

and was wonder who was having good luck or bad

thanks

Here is some info: request-induction-equipment-information

The 1.2 Megapots are really good and sturdy and have tri-ply bottoms. The Boilermakers are much thinner and have single bottoms that may warp and tweak from the high induction heat.

Read both threads, there's a lot of info there.

 

[sumbrewindude]

I believe Blichman has stated publicly that their pots will not work with induction. I don't know anyone specifically that's using a Blichman pot with induction, but the Megapots have been proven good to go.

Also, I thought I remember reading something about thinner (within reason) pot bases being better for BOILING in induction usage, as you're not as concerned with an even heat that can be provided with the tri-clad bottoms but rather the transfer of heat through the pot to the liquid which is where the thin bottoms shine. They heat up faster, but with less uniformity.

Conjecture perhaps, but one of these induction posts also has times for boiling/heating on all the pots as well as which work. Graphing those could give credence to thin/thick bottom question.

 

[steveoatley]

Thanks

Island Lizard & Sumbrewindude

I have tired of waiting for the Vaporware Blichmann - Boil Coil
And have decided to get the Induction 'burner'

So I am looking for the right pot 1

Thx
I will check out that other thread !

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks

Island Lizard & Sumbrewindude

I have tired of waiting for the Vaporware Blichmann - Boil Coil
And have decided to get the Induction 'burner'

So I am looking for the right pot 1

Thx
I will check out that other thread !

You're very welcome!

Vaporware... accurate equipment category.

I saw those coils last year at the NHC in Philly and they do look great. The super low watt density and its stainless mantle is very attractive, alas, perhaps slightly under powered compared to typical ripple element installations. Can't blame you to look for alternatives, and the IC3500 is a great one. I also use it for making large batches of soup and wokking with a flat bottomed cast iron wok on a thin silicone "spacer" made of 1/16" slices cross-cut from a 1/2" silicone brewing hose.

The IC3500 cranks out a lot of heat in a small 6" disc shaped region in the pot. I found that area covered with a bit of a sticky/gluey residue at the end of the boil, an indication of some tenacious sticking or even some scorching. That's with an 8 gallon, 14" diameter Heavy Duty kettle from MoreBeer. I stir often and when doing so scrape that bottom area.

When deciding, definitely get a 10 gallon kettle for 5 gallon batches (5.5-6 actually) if you want to end up with 5 in the keg. I have an 8 gallon pot and although manageable a bit too small. I'm not sure if a 15 or 16 gallon kettle is large enough for 10 gallons, and what kind of boil you would get on the IC3500.

 

[Zibe]

Ok since you've convinced me to go this route couple of questions I'm hoping for help with. I'm pretty handy with most stuff......but electrical in general makes me nervous and 240v scares the bejeezes out of me. That being said the house we recently purchased had a hottub at one time so there is a 240v line coiled up and ready to make beer. In the panel it's a 30amp breaker which I think is good to go for this right?

And this is the line attached to that breaker.


So.... Do I just wire this up???
And is 20 amp on the outlet ok?

And how do I wire it as the wire has white red black and bare ground? Are there four terminals on the outlet or only three?
Also since the unit is designed to be used to cook stuff is it necessary to put gfi either as a breaker or spa panel (which was sold with the hottub) feel free to make fun of my lack of electrical knowledge. I figure it's better to ask since if my wife finds my charred remains on the basement floor she's gonna be really mad at me.


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[IslandLizard]

Ok since you've convinced me to go this route couple of questions I'm hoping for help with. I'm pretty handy with most stuff......but electrical in general makes me nervous and 240v scares the bejeezes out of me. That being said the house we recently purchased had a hottub at one time so there is a 240v line coiled up and ready to make beer. In the panel it's a 30amp breaker which I think is good to go for this right? View attachment 207810

And this is the line attached to that breaker.
View attachment 207811

So.... Do I just wire this up???
And is 20 amp on the outlet ok?
View attachment 207812
And how do I wire it as the wire has white red black and bare ground? Are there four terminals on the outlet or only three?
Also since the unit is designed to be used to cook stuff is it necessary to put gfi either as a breaker or spa panel (which was sold with the hottub) feel free to make fun of my lack of electrical knowledge. I figure it's better to ask since if my wife finds my charred remains on the basement floor she's gonna be really mad at me.

If you're not comfortable working with electricity, maybe you can find a friend or someone who is. Wiring an outlet is not rocket science, neither does it require an advanced degree of any sort, but some common sense electricity-wise is needed. This is in regard to safe wiring practices like stripping wires, attaching terminals, capping, mounting, etc. There are a lot of safety issues that must be followed to prevent accidents, electrocution, or fire at any time.

• Since someone else, maybe not a pro, wired this previously, the installation of that existing "spa" circuit should be thoroughly checked.
• As it is, the wire should be "10-3 with ground" for powering that 30A "spa" circuit. It looks beefy enough on the picture, so it's probably that. The 30A breaker is a little overpowered for your use, since you're only using 15A with your cooker, but you can get away with it. Reason is, if a shortage should occur inside the cooker your cooker wire may melt before the breaker trips. That would be a rare occasion though.
• You need to verify the wires are attached to the breaker and ground bar inside the electrical panel correctly and are torqued down right.
• Then the wire should be followed as much as possible to check for crimps, chafing areas, pinches, possible junction boxes, etc.
• If there are junction boxes in the circuit they should be checked for correct wiring and termination.
• Typically Red and Black are phase (live) each carrying 120V while there is 240V between them. Red and Black should be connected to each of the 2 lugs on that 30A breaker.
• White should be neutral, and the bare copper one is ground. They should both be connected to the ground bar in the main panel.
• There's 120V between White and either Red OR Black, which can be used to wire a regular outlet simultaneously, for example to power a fan or hood, although doing so is not according to code. Circuits like that should be dedicated to one single function (e.g., hot tub, your cooker, or a machine).
• You do not need or even want GFCI when used with your Induction Burner. But there should be no water tap point within 3 feet (?) from your outlet/receptacle.
• Yes, that NEMA 6-20 receptacle (20A) is the right one. It has 3 lugs. Red and Black go to each side of the outlet, while the ground wire (bare copper) attaches to a (sometimes green-colored) lug near the top or bottom. The white wire is not used here and should be capped off with a wire nut.

If I missed anything maybe someone can chip in.

 

[Zibe]

Appreciate the help I've replaced numerous 120 outlets to gfi switched ceiling fans and light fixtures so I know the actual doing I just don't understand what amperage can go with what and with the addition of the fourth wire where that goes.

The wire is in fact 8-3 so good there and it runs on the ceiling right over to where it used to go out to the tub no junctions or crimps looks good there.

Not terribly worried about the 30 amp breaker since it'll never be on without me being right there, the burner will be unplugged after use, and I'll probably just shut the breaker off when not in use since I have no other purpose for it.

So I'll run conduit down the wall to a box install the outlet with red and black, cap off the white, and connect copper to ground (woohoo knew that without help)

Last step order burner and pot before next northern ohio winter and not die from electrocution.

I'm just repeating your advice hope that sounds right and thank you again


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[Zibe]

Just looked at the wire again says awg 8 cu 3 cdr with awg 10 ground type nm-b. I'm no electrocutionist but I think that means the colored wires are 8 gauge and ground is 10 shouldn't be a problem right 8 is beefier than 10???

Ps please don't take my poor attempts at humor as not taking this seriously cause I really don't want to die and I'll at least have someone more knowledgable look it over before throwing the switch just want to make sure the breaker and wire are correct and I get the right outlet


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