Will switching to AG alleviate that "homebrew" taste?

[FirstStateBrewer]

Stop. You're getting to the point of harassment.

This is a forum for discussion, not for inquisitions. Either post to be helpful, or walk away. Thanks!

Yikes! Sorry!

 

[Mikey_Dawg]

Yikes! Sorry!

It is all good man. I definitely want to track down the cause of off-taste and this thread has given me a few things that I know I can watch more closely...notably... using a yeast starter, lower pitch temps, and lower fermentation temps.

 

[bob1852]

It is all good man. I definitely want to track down the cause of off-taste and this thread has given me a few things that I know I can watch more closely...notably... using a yeast starter, lower pitch temps, and lower fermentation temps.

Those are good starts, though you don't need a starter with dry yeast.

I apologize if I missed it, but have you been able to isolate the flavor in a certain type of beer?

Like, are your porters fine but your pales aren't?

That could help isolate whether it's ingredients, process, or water.

 

[robertus]

SWMBO and I have been running into the same sort if vague "off" taste in our brews. We were thinking maybe it had to do with the priming sugar, but thanks to this thread and some more digging around over the last couple of days, we've zeroed in on our fermentation temps. Our past brews were fermented at room temps upwards of 75 degrees, which was totally okay according to the kits/recipes, but apparently not so good (and the kits used Nottingham, which Yooper specifically pointed out as terrible at those temps).

Our Mocktoberfest, which is two-and-a-half weeks in the primary, is in the basement at 68-70, so hopefully that'll have less of the "off" taste. I'm going to take a swig of it before we prime/bottle, so that should tell us whether the off flavors are introduced before or after it hits the bottle (and, if there aren't any off flavors, or they're less pronounced, then the temps are likely the culprit).

Either way, I'll be picking up a bin to make a swamp cooler this afternoon. Worst case, I'll have a $10 bin in which to store all my homebrewing stuff.

 

[Mikey_Dawg]

Those are good starts, though you don't need a starter with dry yeast.

I apologize if I missed it, but have you been able to isolate the flavor in a certain type of beer?

Like, are your porters fine but your pales aren't?

That could help isolate whether it's ingredients, process, or water.

Well, it really seems like in the beginning most all my beers had this off-taste. 7 years later, I really only notice it here and there and the only beer I have right now (or had, I finished off last night) that I noticed it in is my Rye Pale Ale. But it seemed to be more noticeable the longer I had that beer and as some of the hop characteristic wore off.

Like others have said, It might not exist in my other beers or just be hidden by hop or fruit additions. I have a few other older beers bottled I could open to see if I notice it there. Although I doubt I would notice it in my Quad... but would be a good excuse to open one of those jewels.

 

[bkl63]

When to pitch yeast is very yeast specific as well as the temperature to ferment it at.

You mentioned it grows as it sits in the keg. Do you have a brush to clean the dip tube in the keg? I have read stories where people get odd tastes in some of their beers. They were able to trace it to a particular keg and found a dirty dip tube. It's an important step to do in cleaning your keg. Only take a couple of minutes to remove the liquid out port and clean it with the brush that will cost around 6.00 or so.

 

[jldc]

My 2 cents: Clean your beer lines. You said you use Star-San on them but that only sanitizes. Run beer line cleaner through the lines. Disassemble and soak/clean the faucets and the disconnects. If you need to, you can change out the beer line relatively cheaply.

All of the other advice will help you brew better beer, too, of course.

L

 

[bkl63]

A proper identification of the taste, is a very important step to correct it. Getting it judged can really point you in the direction of the cause, then correction better than most anything else that has been suggested... most of the answers are really basic steps to getting better beers, but really just stabs in the dark to the cause.

Stop. You're getting to the point of harassment.

This is a forum for discussion, not for inquisitions. Either post to be helpful, or walk away. Thanks!

 

[gbx]

your "homebrew taste" could be from your water, the common base ingredient, or your yeast if you always use the same strain. If you always use dry nottingham or us05, buy a liquid culture and give it a try and try a different brand of extract. But since the problem gets worse its probably an infection. If you are topping up with unboiled tap water, that could easily be the source of the contamination. Give full boil a try if you have the equipment (you will need it for all grain), or preboil your top up water the day before. You could try bottling a few pints and store them warm and see how much worse the problem gets. Maybe you have a serious infection somewhere in your line or kegs and the refridgeration is suppressing it to some extent. All grain is super fun and I can't believe you've been brewing 7 years and haven't been tempted to give it a go yet ...so do it if it interests you...but....it probably won't eliminate your problems but rather add a bunch of new ones.

 

[BigEd]

I wouldn't make that assumption. In fact, I would suggest if he's making bad beer with extract, he will make REALLY bad beer with AG. The AG process complicates things tremendously. I brewed extract for 20 years before going AG in the Spring of 2011. I was making consistently awesome brews in my opinion with extract. Only switched to AG to add more excitement to my brewing. My advice is for him to fix his "homebrew" taste problem (whatever that mean) before switching to AG.

I'm not saying or assuming that Mikey_Dawg is making good or bad beer. My point was, and is, that simply because one is an extract brewer those beers do not have to have a "homebrew" taste and that high quality extract beer can in fact not only be very good with no unusual flavors or defects that would immediately label them as homebrew. My advice was actually the same as yours. Without identifying the taste and its source simply switching from extract to AG would likely not solve the problem. On the other hand I would not make the assumption you did with the blanket statement that AG brewing "complicates things tremendously". I'd like to know your reasons for reaching that conclusion. IMO while the AG process does add the time, effort and the additional science of mashing to the equation the positive side benefits of a full boil combined with mechanical wort chilling eliminate some of the potential problems encountered from extract brewing; such as the color & flavors tied to a partial boil, the less-than-ideal chilling methods often used and the addition of untreated, unboiled top-off water to the concentrated wort.

 

[Mikey_Dawg]

your "homebrew taste" could be from your water, the common base ingredient, or your yeast if you always use the same strain. If you always use dry nottingham or us05, buy a liquid culture and give it a try and try a different brand of extract. But since the problem gets worse its probably an infection. If you are topping up with unboiled tap water, that could easily be the source of the contamination. Give full boil a try if you have the equipment (you will need it for all grain), or preboil your top up water the day before. You could try bottling a few pints and store them warm and see how much worse the problem gets. Maybe you have a serious infection somewhere in your line or kegs and the refridgeration is suppressing it to some extent. All grain is super fun and I can't believe you've been brewing 7 years and haven't been tempted to give it a go yet ...so do it if it interests you...but....it probably won't eliminate your problems but rather add a bunch of new ones.

I've been tempted to go to AG, but my PM brews have continually improved since I first started so I havent felt the need until just recently.

I dont think the taste is related to kegging as I've noticed it before when I used to bottle and I've also noticed the taste in other homebrewer's beers that also use extract for their beers and only bottle.

Water could be the cause as we all live in Metro Atlanta and probably have similar water quality. Fermentation temps could be the cause as well b/c I think we all ferment at room temps in our homes without using a cooler/other cooling method. The funny thing is, I notice this taste in pretty much everyone of my friends homebrews (all styles) who has been brewing longer than me (he only bottles). I never perceived it as a bad taste but just thought it was something can came along with extract brewing.

I just need to try a few new things with my process and see if this random taste goes away. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[gbx]

This probably isn't your problem but just thinking back to what my wife describes as "homebrew taste" which i still get - yeast still in suspension. If I hand her a young beer or a gravity sample that I see the awesome potential in, she says "yuk, homebrew". If its not settling out fast enough in the keg, I fine with gelatin and it cures it in a day or 2.

 

[Mikey_Dawg]

This probably isn't your problem but just thinking back to what my wife describes as "homebrew taste" which i still get - yeast still in suspension. If I hand her a young beer or a gravity sample that I see the awesome potential in, she says "yuk, homebrew". If its not settling out fast enough in the keg, I fine with gelatin and it cures it in a day or 2.

This could totally be it...who knows at this point. I was at the end of my keg when I noticed it a good bit with the Pale Ale, could be that I was tasting alot more yeast as the final few pints were served from the keg.

I have never tried gelatin... only "fining agent" I use is moss to clear my brews.

 

[rhamilton]

Off flavors can come from a number of things but it certainly won't be solved by going all-grain.

1. Understand you are making ales, not lagers. So don't expect BMC.
2. Demand fresh extract. Old extract will ruin a batch.
3. Switch to 'mini-mashes' -- the few pounds of 'real' grain will help.
4. Kill off the chlorine -- or chloramine. Both will result in off flavors.
5. Control your fermentation temps! If you are in the upper 70's or higher, you need to regulate temps.
6. Crash the yeast in suspension. Definitely cold crash. Irish moss/whirlfloc or gelatin is up to you.

While I've been brewing for only a year, I've produced great all-grain and mini-mash recipes. In fact, I still brew a few mini-mashes to this day since they are of such high quality. The above steps helped me get there.

 

[Newgene]

My thoughts are:

1.) Water can be ruled out pretty quick. Make some batches with your water side by side with some bottled water. I'm not saying either is good or bad, but if you have something coming from the water that is that noticeable, you would spot it right away.

2.) Sanitation issues are possible, but those are always hit or miss. You wouldn't have a consistent sanitation issue unless it was really bad, and then I think everyone who tasted it would know it. Either way, I think that is really not very probable for someone with years of brewing experience.

3.) Temperature -- I think this is the problem. I see where you ferment in a room that is between 70F to 72F ambient. Let's call it 71F. This puts you actively fermenting at what, 75F? I think that is more than hot enough to put off a consistent astringent alcohol taste. Probably would taste more like a goofy twang aftertaste.

4.) Underpitching -- Could you be pitching liquid yeast without a starter or could you be pitching just one pack of dry yeast into 5 gallons of higher gravity beer? In this goes aeration, too. If you at least stir the heck or shake the heck out of your fermenter, I would say this is a non-issue. I don't think additional O2 buys you much if you are pitching enough onto a shaken fermenter.

I noticed my beer batch become noticeably better as I cooled the batches. I'm now trying to push the envelope to see how cold I could go. I have one now at 61F, and it ripped through active fermentation in just 48 hours with a good starter.

 

[jholen]

Here's a newbie's thoughts.

I started out doing two extract batches. They didn't turn out so well - but I was new. I wanted to brew better beer so I started hitting the books, podcasts, forums, etc to better my technique.

In doing so I switched to AG as I liked the low-cost/high investment style of brewing, and I knew I'd be in the hobby awhile.

7 batches down the road, my beer is tasting pretty good. However, I attribute more of that to all the knowledge I've gained over the process more so than switching to AG. I'm 100% confident I could go back to the same recipes I brewed at the outset of my start to the hobby and produce beer just as good as any AG batch I'm brewing. I brew AG because I like the complexity to it and options. Just got back to the homebrew shop with more bulk grain! Increased my specialty grains to about 14 on hand (found some awesome airtight containers at Ikea) as well as a new 50 lbs bag of 2-row.

 

[gbx]

This could totally be it...who knows at this point. I was at the end of my keg when I noticed it a good bit with the Pale Ale, could be that I was tasting alot more yeast as the final few pints were served from the keg.

I have never tried gelatin... only "fining agent" I use is moss to clear my brews.

The more i think aobut it, "homebrew taste" is probably yeast...my wife and I were at a neighbours house last night and he gave us a beer he had made from a kit - all i could taste was acetadahyde with a bit of diacetyl but it was clear and yeast free so my wife didn't mind!

When you clean the keg at the end is there lots of yeast and crap sitting in the bottom?