Will my kettle rims design work?

[sictransit701]

Attached is a picture of my design. I know. I’m not an artist or an engineer. I currently do batch sparge in a 10 gallon cooler, drain, and boil. I’m wanting to add a pump to my system to circulate wort and for ease of transferring liquid. Please take a look and let me know if it’ll work. Thanks!!

 

[day_trippr]

That fairly represents the basics
When you come up with the sparge arm, don't make one that drips/drops/sprays wort above the surface of the mash.
Much better to minimize exposure to air, so come up with something that avoids dropping through it.
Many of us lay a length of silicone tubing atop the wort (often using a float) so the flow is right in the top half inch of the wort...

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

You're about to enter a world of complexity and frustration.

1. You have to babysit the flows to be sure you don't pump all your wort into the mash tun faster than it can naturally drain.
2. Your brewhouse efficiency is going to go down since you're not going to be sparging.
3. You will have to babysit your mash temp the entire time, adjusting the burner (and even likely snuffing the flame completely).

The only kettle RIMS system that is even close to working is those fired by electric, controlled by a temp controller, and where the recirculation is metered carefully by the Blichmann autosparge.

Given all the trouble, what benefit or benefits were you hoping to attain?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

How reliable is the bazooka tube for not clogging? I ask as I don't use a bazooka tube and have not used a bazooka tube.

 

[Bobby_M]

Constant re-circulation is hard for every filter medium, even false bottoms. I didn't even catch that part in the drawing... that will clog.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Constant re-circulation is hard for every filter medium, even false bottoms. I didn't even catch that part in the drawing... that will clog.

I use the Blichmann false bottom in my MTL/eHERMS setup. 18 brews with it and, so far, zero problems.

 

[day_trippr]

I use the same FB in a 20g kettle successfully, but Bobby's point is still taken: put any kind of small restrictions in the mash recirculation path and given the wrong conditions it can plug...

Cheers!

 

[sictransit701]

You're about to enter a world of complexity and frustration.

1. You have to babysit the flows to be sure you don't pump all your wort into the mash tun faster than it can naturally drain.

I don’t think of it as babysitting. I like the process.

2. Your brewhouse efficiency is going to go down since you're not going to be sparging.

Isn’t it continually sparging???

3. You will have to babysit your mash temp the entire time, adjusting the burner (and even likely snuffing the flame completely).

Babysitting again? Even with a cooler?

The only kettle RIMS system that is even close to working is those fired by electric, controlled by a temp controller, and where the recirculation is metered carefully by the Blichmann autosparge.

To me, pushing a few buttons, dumping in ingredients, and waiting is not brewing.

Given all the trouble, what benefit or benefits were you hoping to attain?

All the benefits rims systems offer. Why else would they exist if they didn’t offer some kind of benefits. Clearer wort. Ease of transfer of liquids. Better efficiency.

 

[sictransit701]

How reliable is the bazooka tube for not clogging? I ask as I don't use a bazooka tube and have not used a bazooka tube.

It has never clogged on me and I’ve opened it up all the way. Also done 50 percent wheat in the grain bill. Brewed for 8 years now. Never clogged.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I do know my eHERMS is amazing (and I do hate the overused word "amazing")

 

[sictransit701]

I use the same FB in a 20g kettle successfully, but Bobby's point is still taken: put any kind of small restrictions in the mash recirculation path and given the wrong conditions it can plug...

Cheers!

So, what are y’all saying? it’ll clog?
Then, why do these systems exist?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Grasshopper... say "rice hulls". Ah, so "Mister Eddie's father".

 

[sictransit701]

Grasshopper... say "rice hulls". Ah, so "Mister Eddie's father".

Huh?

 

[VikeMan]

2. Your brewhouse efficiency is going to go down since you're not going to be sparging.

Isn’t it continually sparging???

Sparging and recirculating are not the same. Sparging dilutes the wort that remains stuck in the grains at the end of lautering, thus more sugars make it to the kettle, thus higher efficiency. Recirculating just keeps recycling the same gravity of wort

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Grasshopper... say "rice hulls". Ah, so "Mister Eddie's father".

Use rice hulls to prevent a stuck mash.

Ignore TV quotes if unknown.

 

[sictransit701]

Sparging and recirculating are not the same. Sparging dilutes the wort that remains stuck in the grains at the end of lautering, thus more sugars make it to the kettle, thus higher efficiency. Recirculating just keeps recycling the same gravity of wort

Everything I’ve read elsewhere says recirculating improves efficiency. So, what’s the point of rims and herms systems? What are the benefits? I’m getting very conflicting info from people here.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Well, since I began eHERMS 18 brews ago, my mash efficiency went to 85.4% and brewhouse efficiency went to the mid 80s. I do realize efficiency is nothing more than "mine is bigger than yours". We're walking over a bridge and both need to let go of a few beers. You say, "The water is cold". I reply, "Yea, and deep too.

I use this as a measure against myself to determine if I am doing things correctly, or not.

 

[VikeMan]

Everything I’ve read elsewhere says recirculating improves efficiency. So, what’s the point of rims and herms systems? What are the benefits? I’m getting very conflicting info from people here.

RIMS will improve efficiency over something like BIAB or possibly even a batch sparge, due to constantly moving the wort through the grains and accessing starches that might not have been reached otherwise. But it's not generally going to beat a well designed fly sparge.

The main benefit of RIMS IMO is the ability to do step mashes without needing additional infusions.

 

[sictransit701]

RIMS will improve efficiency over something like BIAB or possibly even a batch sparge, due to constantly moving the wort through the grains and accessing starches that might not have been reached otherwise. But it's not generally going to beat a well designed fly sparge.

The main benefit of RIMS IMO is the ability to do step mashes without needing additional infusions.

what about clarity of wort? Is that a benefit? Maybe I shouldn’t worry about upgrading right now. Just trying to make clearer and better tasting beer.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

what about clarity of wort? Is that a benefit? Maybe I shouldn’t worry about upgrading right now. Just trying to make clearer and better tasting beer.

I began brewing in 1995. I thought I made good beer. However, until I began eHERMS, I wasn't making anything near what I now make. Do wish we lived closer to have you over to quaff some ales.

 

[VikeMan]

what about clarity of wort? Is that a benefit? Maybe I shouldn’t worry about upgrading right now. Just trying to make clearer and better tasting beer.

It can certainly make a clearer wort, compared to a traditional mash/sparge, especially if you're not doing a vorlauf. Basically, RIMS does a vorlauf during the mash, instead of after.

 

[day_trippr]

So, what are y’all saying? it’ll clog?
Then, why do these systems exist?

What part of "wrong conditions" did you ignore?

Cheers! (I'm guessing, all of it )

 

[Bobby_M]

You're about to enter a world of complexity and frustration.

1. You have to babysit the flows to be sure you don't pump all your wort into the mash tun faster than it can naturally drain.

I don’t think of it as babysitting. I like the process.

2. Your brewhouse efficiency is going to go down since you're not going to be sparging.

Isn’t it continually sparging???

3. You will have to babysit your mash temp the entire time, adjusting the burner (and even likely snuffing the flame completely).

Babysitting again? Even with a cooler?

The only kettle RIMS system that is even close to working is those fired by electric, controlled by a temp controller, and where the recirculation is metered carefully by the Blichmann autosparge.

To me, pushing a few buttons, dumping in ingredients, and waiting is not brewing.

Given all the trouble, what benefit or benefits were you hoping to attain?

All the benefits rims systems offer. Why else would they exist if they didn’t offer some kind of benefits. Clearer wort. Ease of transfer of liquids. Better efficiency.

I may not be able to talk you out of it but I'll still explain more for anyone else finding the thread in the future. I mean, you posted this asking if it would work but it sounds like you already made up your mind.

Yes, having to watch your flow rate and tank levels the entire brew day is babysitting. You really won't be able to walk away more than a minute or so or you do risk putting all the kettle wort into the mash where it may or may not all fit.

Efficiency. A 2 vessel kettle RIMS is effectively a no sparge, full volume mash system. You are not sparging by putting mash-gravity wort back over the same grain bed. That's just recirculating. Yes, recirculation CAN increase conversion efficiency but that's in a traditional 3 vessel system that retains a fly sparging step. A static mash + batch sparge is going to beat the efficiency of recirculated no sparge system.

Yes, in a system that you're envisioning, you will need to constantly light/extinguish/and regulate the burner under the kettle. The act of recirculating is going to dump heat out of the system even with a cooler. You'll lose heat in the hoses, the pump and definitely in the kettle. You may be able to find a flame level perfectly regulated that it's putting the right amount of heat back in to hold everything steady but most likely not. Your mash temps will oscillate quite a bit, defeating the purpose.

Constant recirculation doesn't work well with a bazooka screen. During recirculation all the fine material from the entire mash will migrate down to the filter and clog it badly.

An electric kettle RIMS is hardly JUST pushing a few buttons. It's just the way that a system like this works and the way you're trying to do it will not.

 

[Bobby_M]

what about clarity of wort? Is that a benefit? Maybe I shouldn’t worry about upgrading right now. Just trying to make clearer and better tasting beer.

A kettle RIMS actually inserts another clarity problem. Some of the finer mash particles that make it out of the mash tun will settle to the bottom of the kettle and never be flushed out to filtered again in the mash. That's a little different than recirculating just within the mash tun itself.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

With my eHERMS the wort pumps is open full port and the HLT wort pump is also open full port. Sparging, is a completely different setting.

 

[sictransit701]

A kettle RIMS actually inserts another clarity problem. Some of the finer mash particles that make it out of the mash tun will settle to the bottom of the kettle and never be flushed out to filtered again in the mash. That's a little different than recirculating just within the mash tun itself.

But, many people do this system to get clearer wort. I’ve seen it produce clearer wort. Now, you are telling me it doesn’t. I don’t understand.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

IMO, HERMS and eHERMS makes for clearer wort.