will cider with natural yeast need yeast nutrient?

[instant_gratification]

So I'm doing a cider brew from a 100 year old apple tree that came with a house we bought last year. It is very productive and the apples are delicious. I juiced a few gallons and decided to just leave it natural, raw with no additions, letting it ferment with its own yeast. I did add yeast nutrient. 2 weeks later I siphoned it into a second fermenter to get rid of some sediment and added more nutrient. I tasted it and it's really good. Still lots of sugars left to ferment..
Anyway..
It got me thinking..
So this natural yeast on the apples has evolved with this tree over the years. It seems to me that this yeast is probably suited perfectly to ferment these apples given only the nutrients available inside the apple itself.
Is it even necessary to add yeast nutrient in a situation like this?

 

[dmtaylor]

In my opinion, cider never really needs nutrients. I don't use it at all anymore and I love how my ciders turn out without it.

 

[instant_gratification]

Also what about wine? I've never made wine.. but if you use the natural beasties that are present on the grapes that have evolved with the plant would that juice not give the yeast everything it needs to thrive and do a thorough fermentation?

 

[dmtaylor]

Let's be clear: I don't do things the way everyone else does. That said...

I wouldn't bother with nutrients. I just truly don't believe they do much if anything.

No one will agree with me, but I fail to see how that would make my opinion any less valid if I can get great results without.

Now...... If I was going to repitch the same yeast over and over and over, or preserve the yeast in a laboratory setting, or something like that, then yes, I think nutrients might not be such a bad idea. However, for a one-off batch? Nah.

There are even some advantages to nutrient deficiency, if you subscribe to the belief as I do that with less nutrients, the SLOWER the fermentation goes, and the SLOWER it goes, the less off-gassing and more preservation of the original flavors that mother nature intended. Also, look into a process known as keeving, where calcium is added on purpose to settle out much of the nutrients, which results in a clear and more naturally sweet product.

And then there's the whole thing about some people not wanting to add a lot of weird chemicals to their wine or cider, keep it organic, etc. I say, if you don't want to add any chemicals for any reason, then don't, and just enjoy the product you get anyway. And you might find as I have that your product might just might turn out EVEN BETTER than it would with chemical additions.

There are lots of different ways to do things, and all are reasonably successful. Do whatever you want, and let the naysayers be damned (if they even bother to come around, which they probably will).

Cheers.

 

[instant_gratification]

I suppose peoples have been brewing great drinks for millenia without adding "missing" nutrients. I'm somewhat a novice to brewing in general and the thought about yeast evolving to need only what is in the fruit it grows on occurred to me. Does anyone else have any insight into this idea?

 

[dmtaylor]

I think you're likely correct in this hypothesis. But I don't have science to back me up. Hopefully someone else does.

 

[instant_gratification]

I still have more apples on that tree. I think I'm going to start another batch and not add any nutrient or anything else and see how they compare.